OldCoot

It is possible. It seems that Israel will be left standing alone to deal with all of this. I don't get the sense that the U.S. will be aiding Israel, either because the don't choose to or that the U.S. has been taken out, so to speak. And there is many possibilities in that regard. One doesn't have to blow everything up to knock out the U.S. A few well place upper atmosphere nuclear bursts will cover the U.S. with electromagnetic pulse that will knock out just about all electronics and the electric grid. We can only speculate. I am glad I really don't have the knowledge of these things down to the detail that God does.

I think Jeremiah 31:15 was dealt with to some extent in Matthew 2:18 I see Ezekiel 37 as more in keeping with the restoration of Israel, initially in unbelief. And God Himself adds clarification in verse 21-22 as bringing the nation of Israel back together from the nations. And when we get to Ezekiel 38, the armies are coming against Israel, and later will be destroyed. But even then, when Messiah reigns over them in the Millennial Kingdom, it will not be perfect and things will not be as rosy as we might like them to be. Messiah will rule with a rod of iron. That implies that anyone getting out of line will be dealt with quickly. Sin still is around. Those nations that do not come to Jerusalem at the Feast of Tabernacles will have rain denied from their land. Sin of rebellion still exists. And when Satan is released at the end of the 1000 years, he is able to create a mass revolt against God at that time. Sin has come to full bloom yet again. A causal reading of the kingdom parables suggests these problems. If the Kingdom was perfect, it would not just last 1000 years, it should be forever. We tend to confuse the millennial kingdom with the new heavens and new earth that will be created to last forever.

I kind of do.. as referenced in Ezekiel. There are some passages that almost look like they are out of Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical warfare manuals. So something along a nuclear event seems to be implied in scripture. If one is familiar with nuclear weapons, they have to be recycled every 7 years. The nuclear component degrades over time. Interesting how Ezekiel seemed to show this. It would appear that Israel is able to use the nuclear material from their enemies to power Israel for 7 years. Ezekiel 39:9-10 (NKJV) “Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and bucklers, the bows and arrows, the javelins and spears; and they will make fires with them for seven years. 10 They will not take wood from the field nor cut down any from the forests, because they will make fires with the weapons; and they will plunder those who plundered them, and pillage those who pillaged them,” says the Lord God. And how are bodies and such dealt with after a nuclear event? Ezekiel seems to allude to that as well..... Ezekiel 39:11-15 (NKJV) “It will come to pass in that day that I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea; and it will obstruct travelers, because there they will bury Gog and all his multitude. Therefore they will call it the Valley of Hamon Gog. 12 For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified,” says the Lord God. 14 “They will set apart men regularly employed, with the help of a search party, to pass through the land and bury those bodies remaining on the ground, in order to cleanse it. At the end of seven months they will make a search. 15 The search party will pass through the land; and when anyone sees a man's bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog. The men of regular employed could very well be government employees that are in charge of containment of radioactive material. And it seems that the disposal area is "downwind" in the area of the Dead Sea. Anyone who notices a bone must assume radioactive contamination and marks the spot and these government workers will come and dispose of it. It might be assuming too much on what the text is saying, but it is a somewhat plausible explanation. Especially when combined with this passage: Zechariah 14:12 (NKJV) And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths. Get the sense that a nuclear event is in the cards? No way to know it such a thing is broader than the area of Middle east, but I get the sense the "big boom" is a very likely possibility.

That's Ok. So many wild ideas floating around, it pays to stay on guard!

Not sure how you deduced that idea from what I wrote. No, I was stating how Paul spoke against it and the Revelation passages condemn it.

One of the aspects of the Great Tribulation is to drive national Israel to the wall to finally cry out for Messiah. And that is required before He can return according to Hosea and Matthew. That would almost have to mean that they are completely at the end of their rope. Everyone has turned against Israel and they are on the precipice of destruction. When they do finally recognize their offense of rejection and cry out to Him, He will deliver them and destroy their enemies. These facts virtually leap off the pages of scripture.

Shiloh has it right. Israeli has been brought back in unbelief as written to us by Ezekiel. They have yet to have spiritual life breathed into them. It comports with the prophecy in Hosea and Matthew that Yeshua would not return until they acknowledge their offense and call out to Him. It is the lack of understanding of that by others which has caused many to miss one of the greatest fulfillments of prophecy in centuries, the regathering of Israel which sets the stage for the culmination of most of scenario before Yeshua physically returns. Even Isaiah proclaimed that all Israel will be regathered a second time after the first regathering from the Babylonian captivity. And there can be little doubt who these Israelites are, as it was shown in 2 Chronicles that the tribes of Israel and Judah were commingled under Jeroboam (in fulfillment of the prophecy in 1 Kings) just before the Babylonian captivity. And the Revelation passages are references to such things as Replacement Theology (the church has replaced Israel) and various other forms of Judaizing. that Shiloh mentioned. Paul addressed this quite firmly in his letter to the Romans.

You are truly amazing. It was already outlined to you by others who that passage in Revelation was referring. Yes, I accuse you, or rather, the rest of scripture accuses you. You still avoid 2 Chronicles. Many posts and you refuse to accept scripture. You have made the passage in Revelation fit your preconceived ideas on what it should say. But that doesn't aline with scripture. Even Paul, in Romans 9, 10, and 11 refutes your case. There is a Mosaic Law principle, that even Yeshua Himself applied. An issue can only be confirmed on the testimony of two witnesses. We have those witnesses. The OT and the NT. And you can find nothing in the OT to support your view of the passage in Revelation. It is clearly referencing folks like you! Gentiles that claim to be Jews and are not. The gentile nations are not now the true Jews. To state that they are requires allegorizing the scripture to extremes. Replacement theology is heresy, pure and simple and is stated as much in the passages you are basing your assertion on. Sorry to be so harsh, but it is what it is. And even then, folks like you who love to claim that they are now the true Jews, they conveniently will appropriate the blessing passages to the Jews upon themselves, but always seem to avoid the curses. How convenient.

So you do agree, that the Bible is lying in saying they were already joined in 2 Chronicles. Thanks for clarifying. A believer that thinks the Bible is a false document written by boobs and hates anyone who disagrees. Oops, hates Jews. Interesting.

So what y'all are saying is that the writers of 1 Kings and 2 Chronicles were just making scribblings? Seems to me that is what is going on. I showed that in 1 Kings, the 10 tribes would be unified to the 2 southern tribes as a prophecy, and how that was fulfilled in 2 Chronicles. And clear enough that a blind man could see it. So I guess you feel they were just pulling our leg. And even when called out for all to see, you persist in your assertions. You have some issues to deal with. And you have no clue what the posters you directed your comments to "go read your talmud" actually read, or if they have ever read the talmud, either the Babylonian Talmud or the Jerusalem Talmud. Probably not the Mishna either. That is a stereotypical pile of fertilizer you are throwing around. It is not in keeping with Christian values taught in dealing with the brethren. You are in massive violation of two of the commandments of Yeshua. "love your enemies" and "love your neighbor as yourself". Again, you are treading on very dangerous ground. You might want to rethink the direction you are going.

I think we can figure out where you are coming from now. That kind of comment is uncalled for. Shame on you.

Wow. One could teach a class on the circular reasoning going on here. Causes me to wonder, if the the "christian nations" are the true Israel, then why did the "christian nation" of Germany slaughter so many? No, it is nonsense like this that led straight to the gas chambers of Auschwitz. It was the culmination of centuries of allegorical scripture interpretation by Augustine, Luther, et al. The Nazi's used logic like this to justify the extermination of the Jewish people. That those who claim to be Jews are just imposters and not really the true Jews. Luther was quoted extensively by the Hitler and Goebbels during the Holocaust. And still today, Hitler has not been excommunicated from the Catholic Church. You are treading on some very dangerous ground, sir. But I ask, the 144,000 from the twelve tribes mentioned in Revelation, God seemed to know that the twelve tribes are still around from the original tribes. If 10 of them are the "christian nations", then please, tell us which tribe are you from? And was Anna, in Luke 2:36, in error because she claimed to be from the tribe of Asher? She must have been an imposter! After all, the 10 tribes were "lost" and now make up the "christian nations", right? Is China now the "true Israel"? After all, there are as many or more Christians in China than in the western world. The numbers of Christians in China exceeds the entire U.S. population. You still did not address 2 Chron 11:14-17 how members of all the tribes of the northern Kingdom, who still followed the Lord while the rest of the people of the northern tribes turned to Idolatry, migrated to Judah and joined with those southern tribes. This is confirmed again in 2 Chron 15:9 and 2 Chon 30:1-11. And compare that to the prophecy of 1 Kings 11:31 and 1 Kings 11:35 where God will give the 10 northern tribes to Judah and Benjamin. How far we stray when we fail to take all of scripture into account and rely on the imaginations of man. You have been refuted... by scripture itself.

Please elaborate on this, as both Israel and Judah are referenced, and in both the time of the Messiah and in the latter days...... Hosea 5:14 - 6:2 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim, And like a young lion to the house of Judah. I, even I, will tear them and go away; I will take them away, and no one shall rescue. 15 I will return again to My place Till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.” Chapter 6 1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us; He has stricken, but He will bind us up. 2 After two days He will revive us; On the third day He will raise us up, That we may live in His sight. Hosea 5:15 can only mean the Messiah. For Him to return to His place, He had to have left it. The offense, attributed to both Israel and Judah, is the rejection of the Messiah. In their affliction during the time of Jacob's Trouble, they will BOTH call out for Messiah to rescue them. And this is supported well with the statement made by Yeshua Himself.... Matthew 23:38-39 (NKJV) See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” By the testimony of two or more witnesses minimum shall the matter be established. That is the Mosaic legal prescription. And both the OT and the NT (two witnesses) substantiate the issue in these verses.

You failed to mention how the USS Liberty was under the control of the National Security Agency (and anyone with experience with the intelligence community knows how the NSA can run amok sometimes) and was collecting Isreali communications from the battlefield, compressing it, and sending it to British intelligence on Cyprus, which had ties to the nations coming against Israel in the 6 day war. The information collected showed Israeli unit movements, almost down the man, and that information was shared with their enemies. Israel did a fly over of the Liberty and determined from the communications emanating from the ship what was going on. So, Israel had to make a determination.... sacrifice thousands of Israel soldiers on the battlefield or take out one U.S. ship. They opted for the latter. The U.S. did nothing, as it would implicate the U.S. what they were doing. Also, that after this incident, Israel made monetary reparations to the families of the sailors onboard the Liberty. And they did so without coercion from the U.S. or the U.N. They did it on their own, to the tune of $3,323,000 in 1968. At least tell the whole story and not the view that only supports a anti-Israel position. Skewing with information is not good to do. The "nations" you claim are now "Israel" are really Israel didn't lift a finger to make compensation to anyone. This "ten lost tribes", "British Israelism", "replacement theology" nonsense is getting so old. The tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel were never lost or became other nations. Those that remained faithful to God, when the northern kingdom sank into idolatry, migrated south and joined with Judah prior to the northern kingdom being taken into captivity. Read your bible. 2 Chronicles 11:16 (NKJV) And after the Levites left, those from all the tribes of Israel, such as set their heart to seek the Lord God of Israel, came to Jerusalem to sacrifice to the Lord God of their fathers.

Assurance so simple that a child could understand it! Oh, wait... I think I read that somewhere Matthew 18:3-4 (NKJV) and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

It's possible that the 144,000 are in focus, but I think it has to do with all of Israel that survives that period. Isaiah 45:4 (NKJV) For Jacob My servant's sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me. National Israel is pushed to the wall and cries out for the Messiah they rejected... Hosea 5:15 - 6:2 (NKJV) I will return again to My place Till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.” Chapter 6 A Call to Repentance 1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us; He has stricken, but He will bind us up. 2 After two days He will revive us; On the third day He will raise us up, That we may live in His sight. And Yeshua confirmed this prophecy here: Matthew 23:38-39 (NKJV) See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Sound scriptural hermeneutics says that the law of first mention should be used as the baseline in determining the right way to view a passage. Isaiah 45:4 (NKJV) For Jacob My servant's sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me. It would seem to be that the elect are indeed Israelites. And who would be the ones who are of major focus during the "time of Jacob's Trouble", or Great Tribulation? Israel. The purpose of the Great Tribulation is to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their rejection of Messiah, and to push Israel to the wall and get them to call out for the Messiah to rescue them. Hosea 5:15 - 6:2 (NKJV) I will return again to My place Till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.” Chapter 6 A Call to Repentance 1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us; He has stricken, but He will bind us up. 2 After two days He will revive us; On the third day He will raise us up, That we may live in His sight. And Yeshua confirms this prophecy here: Matthew 23:38-39 (NKJV) See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” This is also why Satan has tried for centuries to eliminate the Jews from the planet. So there are no Jews left to cry out for the Messiah to return and rescue them. Every time he has tried, God always preserves a remnant.

Well, Jude gave us a little bit of a clue on this. In Jude 1:6, he mentions that these Angels bent on mischief left their own estate. And the Greek for that is the same word which Paul uses to describe what we are hoping for in 2 Cor 5:2. We are hoping to be robed in bodies superior to our own. These fallen angels disrobed from their bodies. So in essence, they disrobed from the bodies they had in the spiritual realm. That would seem to imply that they then took on human form and all the makings of humans which would allow them to then cohabitant with human women. We have echoes of this event in Greek mythology. The "gods" cohabited with human women and produced the Titans, which the Greek term is "fallen ones", the same term as the Hebrew nephalim. Given the capabilities of Angels as shown in various passages of scripture, it is not unrealistic to think that they could be capable of more than we give them credit for. It does say, that in heaven, we will be like the angles there and we do not marry. But those are not the fallen angels. We are only able to deal with the 4 dimensions we exist in... length, height, width, and time. But the Jewish sage Nachmanides, in his analysis of the first two chapters of Genesis, determined that there are 10 dimensions. We have spent billions on particle colliders and such to determine the very same thing. We have nary a clue what beings that live in multiple dimensions higher than we live in are really capable of. When the fallen angels disrobed from their angelic bodies, it could mean that they left those higher dimensions to exist in ours. Who really knows but them and God. The scripture makes it clear that Noah was perfect in his generations. The term for that is the same used for the genetics of an animal that is to be sacrificed, that it be without blemish. Noah's genetics were not corrupted by all this nonsense. So he and his family were preserved thru the flood to repopulate the earth. The rest of the earth had become so genetically corrupted that God was forced to destroy all the inhabitants of the earth. But it does say in this passage, that not only were there nephalim on the earth, but also after that. And we saw that again when the Israelites scouted out Canaan. The scouts reported that there were nephalim in the land. This would explain why God commanded that the Israelites kill all men, women, children, livestock, etc upon entering the land. Satan had 400 years from the time of Abraham to the exodus from Egypt, to lay down a minefield of genetic corruption in the land. Plutarch and other secular writers of antiquity have written that some of these had bodies that were up to 13 ft tall. It is quite possible that Goliath was one of these critters. So what happened to the spirits of those that were nephalim? They were not human, they were not angels. I side with others that these disembodied spirits are the demonic activity that goes on from time to time. And that they seek embodiment. They have capabilities that they inherited from their fallen angel parentage that, again, may be more than we give them credit for. It is also possible that what have been described as UFO aliens, may in fact be nephalim hybrids, bodies for these disembodied spirits. Folks that claim abduction experiences state that these entities always seem to be interested in collecting human ovum and sperm in their so-called "physical examinations" of human abductees. And it is very probable that this nonsense will be foisted on us again. Daniel in his description of the statue in Nebachanezer's dream, he made the following description.... Daniel 2:43 (NKJV) As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. For something to mingle with the seed of men, they must be something other than the seed of men. Bizarre stuff, for sure. And there are many views.

It is called a search feature. I was looking up something else and this thread was in the list.

It isn't so much about how the days were numbered, as it is whose clock you are talking about. Time is a relative property. It varies by influence of mass, velocity, etc. The national standard clock in Greenwich, England runs slightly faster than the one in Boulder, Colorado. They are both correct, but the one in Boulder is a mile higher than the one in England. Time is slower. Not enough to adjust your daily schedule, but predictable and confirmed. Gerald Schroeder, a Israeli physicist, took the mass of the universe, the distance from the earth to the perceived edge of the universe, and factored in the estimated time of the universe, and calculated that to equate to 7 days on the earth. He outlines it in his book on the subject. I do hold to a 7000 year plan of God, that equates to the 7 days of creation. Not something that should be taken as doctrinal truth, but a reasoned look. There were 2000 years from the creation to Abraham. There was 2000 years from Abraham to the Messiah. There have been 2000 years, almost, from the Messiah till now. And there will be a sabbath 1000 years of the reign of the Messiah on the earth. I feel that 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4 lend credence to that position. And I am a stickler for the Mosaic Law principle that any issue be confirmed by the testimony of two witnesses... both OT and NT. As a humorous side note.... there is one day in those 6 days of physical creation that God did not declare it was good. The second day, or Monday. We have the precedent set, by God himself, to complain about Mondays! LOL

I think they hold both a directive to the churches at the time it was written, pertains to current churches, and a historical meaning. Those churches were real churches with real issues. It also shows that relying on the practices of the early church for doctrinal standards is not the best idea. Before the ink was dry on the New Testament, it was clear that the church was already in trouble, doctrinally. But also, in the order that they are, they lay out church history in advance. That is tougher to outline, but it is a valid argument. Israel is the woman in Rev 12:1, as outlined in Genesis 37:9-11. It is clearly a reference to Israel giving birth to the Messiah. If this passage means the church, then she is in real trouble. The church is supposed to be the virgin bride of the Messiah, yet if this passage means the church, she is pregnant.

Well, I did say I was reviving this from the dead. Their was valid information I put in that post that some might find useful.

Agree. Abraham declared, after the event of God providing the lamb in place of Isaac, that on that spot, on the mount of the Lord it will be seen. What will be seen? God would sacrifice His own Son. The whole event was an acting out of prophecy.

Ask them to read Isa 41:4 and ask them who is that? Of course, they should say Jehovah God. Next, repeat this with Isa 44:6 and Isa 48:12. Then have them read Rev 22:13 and ask them who that is. Now you take them to Rev 2:8... Revelation 2:8 (NKJV) The Persecuted Church 8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: shouldn't be any confusion on who that is. And these verses all work out in the NWT

If you read the 5 verses preceding the ones I posted, you should have your answer. As for getting mad, those folks were on a power, prestige, and money game. They did all the right things, as it pertains to the Law, but their heart was in themselves and not towards God.