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Found 28 results

  1. jeremiah1five

    Kingdom of God

    When I first was born-again and received knowledge that I was a son of God and that I was ALWAYS a son of God I used to believe just as the majority of those in Christendom that the kingdom of God was an actual kingdom with a king, (with a realm or location, with subjects, a royal court, a castle or mansion, etc.), all the fixings of what we all commonly know in this earth as a kingdom. But I was wrong. We were wrong. Christendom was wrong and still is. Matthew 12:28 (KJV) 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Luke 11:20 (KJV) 20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. Question: What is Jesus Christ doing? Answer: Jesus Christ is casting out 'devils.' Jesus Christ is, in effect, saying that He is the kingdom of God. A kingdom OF GOD that has come 'unto you.' This 'kingdom' is not the same as the kingdom of heaven. This kingdom (of heaven) does have a king, a realm, a court, subject, etc. Luke 17:20-21 (KJV) 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. The apostle Paul adds to this truth when he says: Romans 14:17 (KJV) 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. The kingdom of God is Christ. Christ is within 'you.' Christ is righteousness, peace, and joy... all the deific attributes of Christ Himself. And flesh has inherited Christ as Promised by God to His people Israel, and spiritual Israel. And this is our inheritance as named souls that were contemplated by God in Trinity in His Mind BEFORE He created heaven earth and man. His Elect people were written in a 'book' of life of the lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (creation) of the world (Rev. 13:8). 1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. The unsaved cannot inherit the kingdom of God who is Christ: John 14:17 (KJV) 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. The unsaved who are not named in the book of life of the lamb slain... a.k.a., the world, CANNOT RECEIVE Christ. No way, no how. So, there are two groups of people on the planet, always has been: those in Covenant with God, and those not in Covenant with God. Righteousness = The Father Peace = the Son, the Prince of Peace Joy = the Holy Spirit. Go figure.
  2. KiwiChristian

    Any backup out there?

    Hi guys. i am feeling really lonely in a mostly-jw and non-trinitarian forumn. Could use some help and backup! I am Jesus Defender there. https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/55859-the-trinity-and-it’s-false-theology/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-91873
  3. KiwiChristian

    How can Jesus Christ be God? 

    How can Jesus Christ be God? In Genesis 1:26, “God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness.” This shows that man has a similar image or likeness to God. What is it? I’d like you to think about yourself for a moment. You are one man, with three parts. 1) You have a body which gives you world consciousness through your five senses. Your body is 100% human. It allows you to interact with the physical universe. 2) You have a soul made up of your mind, emotions and will, also known as your personality. This gives you self consciousness. It is 100% human. 3) You have a spirit which gives you God consciousness making you think that there is a God. It is your “God detector.” It is also 100% human. So you are one man with three parts. You are a trinity, meaning three in one. (1 Thess. 5:23). We can represent God in a similar manner with 3 circles. Islam, the Quran, Christianity and the Bible all believe in one God. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus teaches that there is only one true God by the singular word name, not names, “baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”. The one true God has three parts known as the Father, the HUIOS Son and the Holy Spirit. 1) As we have a spirit that is 100% human, so God has a Spirit called the Holy Spirit, who is 100% God. 2) As we have a body that is 100% human that interacts with the physical universe, so God has something like a body through which He interacts with the physical universe, called the Son who is 100% God. It was God the Huios Son that spoke and appeared to Adam, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Solomon, Isaiah and who was conceived into Mary as Jesus Christ. Before His conception, the Huios Son was only 100% God, but after His conception He was both 100% God and 100% man. It is like you having both an Iranian passport and an Australian passport. This makes you 100% Iranian and 100% Australian. 3) As you have a soul which is 100% human that tells your body what to do, so God has something like a soul called God the Father who tells the Huios Son what to do, such as to be conceived in Mary. Therefore, as you are one man with a spirit, soul and body, each being 100% human, so there is one true God made up of the Father, the Huios Son, and the Holy Spirit, each part being 100% God. As you are a trinity, so God is the Trinity, made up of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This is in Proverbs 30:4; Psalm 2:12; Isaiah 9:6; 48:12,13,16; Daniel 3:25; Micah 5:2; Exodus 3:3-15; (24:9-18); John 8:58,59,24.
  4. KiwiChristian

    How can Jesus Christ be the Son of God?

    How can Jesus Christ be the Son of God? In English, we have only one word for Son, which is “Son” meaning a boy derived from his parents by sex. The New Testament was written in the Greek language, and Greek has two words for “Son” being: 1. TEKNON means a boy, derived from his parents by sex. This word, TEKNON is never used in the New Testament to describe Jesus as the “Son of God,” because we all agree, both Muslims, Christians, Quran and the Bible, that God does not have sex, does not have a wife, girlfriend, or babies. True? 2. HUIOS means same nature as, eg. Son of peace (Luke 10:36) means you have the nature of peace, or sons of disobedience (Eph 5:6). Jesus as “Son of God” means that He has 100% the same nature as God. Jesus is also called in the New Testament the “only begotten” Son of God. In Greek this is mono genes huios 1. “mono” means “one and same”, for example the monorail travels on one rail. 2. “genes” means “genetics”. We have about 25,000 genes which determine our every detail. So, Jesus as the “only begotten Son of God” means that He has the same genetics and the same nature as God.
  5. Searching about the Trinity, I found very good explanations like the "one BEING that has 3 PERSONS" or the analogy of the cube as in C. S. Lewis book. But, if a cube is made of 6 sqaures, it means that, if one square is missing, we can no longer call that figure a cube, and, the square that is missing in this cube is not a cube anymore, it is just a square. Does that mean that, without one of these persons, God is not complete? Do those 3 persons depend on each other to become God like the squares depend on each other to become a cube? Would we say that the trinity is like 1/3 of God? Like 1/3+1/3+1/3=1? I know it doesn't fit in the definition of the Christian God. But what would be the answer for it? How does the trinity works in this sense?
  6. The Trinity and Bible Proofs that Jesus Christ is God 1. Matthew 28:17-20 “they worshipped him”, “All power is given to me”, “I am with you always” and “baptizing them in the name (one God) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” = Trinity. 2. In Matthew 3:1-3, Jesus Christ fulfils Isaiah 40:3 to ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah’ and our God. 3. John 1:1 “the word was God” (KJV, NIV), not ‘a god’ (NWT). a) Isaiah 44:8 ‘Is there a God beside me?’ b) The absence of the article before “theos” (God) identifies “word” as the subject (Colwell’s rule)Ans855 ‘The subject is identified by the article (ho logos) and the predicate (theos) without it.’ AT Robertson 5,4. John did not use the word for “Godlike or a lesser god” (theios) to describe Jesus, but used “theos” (God). All early writers disagree with JWs. (Irenaeus,Theophilus, Clement,Tertullian, Origen, Cyprian, Tatian). All modern Greek experts disagree with JWs. (Zodhiates, AT Robertson, Wuest, Vine, Vincent, Mantey) 4. John 1:3 “All things were made by him” Malachi 2:10 “Hath not one God created us?” Jesus is Creator. 5. John 3:13 “Son of man which is in heaven.” Jesus is omnipresent (on earth and in heaven at same time) 6. John 4:42 “Christ, the Saviour of the world.” Isaiah 43:11 “Jehovah; beside me there is no saviour.” 7. John 5:18 “said God was his Father, making himself equal with God”. John believed it and quoted it. 8. John 5:23 “all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father” Do you honour the Son as God? 9. John 6:46 “Not that any man hath seen the Father.” Who did OT saints see who they said was God?Is6:5 10. John 8:24 “If ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.” Jehovah is “I am” in Exodus 3:1-14. 11. John 8:58,59 “Before Abraham was, I am. They took up stones to cast at him.” Jesus said He is God. 12. John 10:30 “I and my Father are One. They took up stones to stone him.” No stoning if agree with God. 13. John 10:33 “thou being a man, makest thyself God. They sought again to take him (39)”. Why? 14. John 16:15 “All things that the Father hath are mine:” All the Father’s attributes as God are Christ’s. 15. John 17:5 “the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Isaiah 42:8 “I am Jehovah: my glory will I not give to another.” Jesus is Jehovah because he alone shares Jehovah’s exclusive glory. 16. John 20:28 “Thomas said unto him (Jesus), My Lord and my God.” No rebuke for blasphemy or error. 17. Acts 20:28 “Feed the church of God, which he (God) hath purchased with his own blood.” Jesus =God 18. I Cor. 1:2 “all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ.” Prayer to Jesus makes him God. 19. I Corinthians 15:47 ‘the second man is the Lord from heaven’ This is Jesus. No man is from heaven. 20. II Corinthians 13:14 is the Apostolic Benediction:“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.” (II Corinthians 13:14). Why is there a change in the order of the persons of the Trinity, compared to Matthew 28:19, if not to show that in this Trinity none is before or after the other, and none is better than another? 21. Philippians 2:6 “Who being in the form of God (in His pre-incarnate state Christ had the form of God) thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” (a prize to be held on to, not a prize to be won. AT Robertson). 22. Colossians 2:9 “In him (Christ) dwells all the fullness (exhausts the limits) of the Godhead bodily.” 23. I Thes 4:14 “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” Jesus returns as God at rapture. 24. I Timothy 3:16 “God was manifest in the flesh.” Jesus is God the Son conceived in Mary. 25. Titus 2:13 “the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Granville-Sharp rule: Jesus is God and Saviour. 26. Hebrews 1:6 “Let all the angels of God worship him.” Only worship God. Matt 4:10, Ps97:7 Son is God 27. Hebrews 1:8 “To the Son he saith, ‘Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever’” Psalm 45:6,7. Son is God. 28. Hebrew 1:10 “And (to the Son he saith), Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:.thou art the same.” Son is unchangeable creator. Ps102:24 29. Hebrews 1:13 To which of the angels said he, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 35 30. I John 5:7 “There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” The heavenly and earthly witnesses in v.7,8 are confirmed in v.9 by God and men. The masculine article (oi) for “that” in v.7 is derived from the masculine nouns “Father and Word” in v.7. 31. Revelation 1:17,18 “I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth and was dead;” Jesus = first and last. Revelation 1:11 “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:” Jesus = first and last = Alpha and Omega. Revelation 22:12,13 “I come quickly; I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.” Jesus=Alpha & Omega. Revelation 1:8 “I am Alpha and Omega, the Almighty.” Jesus = first & last = Alpha & Omega =Almighty 32. Revelation 22:3 “the throne of God and of the Lamb.” Both God and the Lamb equally own the throne. Revelation 22:3 “his servants shall serve him:” Both God and the Lamb equally own the same servants. Revelation 22:4 “they shall see his face.” Both God and the Lamb have the same face. Revelation 22:4 “his name shall be in their foreheads.” Both God and the Lamb have the same name. Revelation 20:6 “they shall be priests (of God and of Christ), and shall reign with HIM a thousand years” Revelation 21:22 “for (the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb) are the temple of it.” Both are temple of NJ Revelation 21:23 “for (the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light) thereof.” Both light of NJ 33. God identifies Himself as “us” (a Trinity) in:‘God said “let us make man in our image”’ Genesis 1:26 ‘Jehovah God said, “Behold the man is become as one of us . . .’ Genesis 3:22. ‘Jehovah came down … the Lord said, let us go down.’ Genesis 11:5,7 ‘who will go for us?’ Isaiah 6:8. 34. Exodus 3:14 “I AM hath sent me unto you.” ‘I AM’ is the name of the angel of Jehovah, Jehovah, God (2,4,6) & Jesus in John 8:58 “Before Abraham was, I AM” & John 8:24 “If ye believe not that I AM” 35. Psalm 110:1. God told David that David’s son would be David’s God. ‘The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord (Adonai), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.’ Jesus applied this to Himself in Matthew 22:41-45 as a question: ‘If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?’ This shows that Jesus Christ would be both a man descended from David and David’s God. 36. Isaiah 6:1-8,5. “Mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts” on the throne in heaven. God asked Isaiah “who will go for us?” (‘us’ = trinity). In John 12:37-41, John said, “These things said Esaias when he saw his (Jesus) glory, and spake of him (Jesus).” Jesus was the King, Jehovah of hosts that Isaiah saw. 37. Isaiah 9:6 ‘Unto us a child is born (human Jesus),unto us a son is given (God the Son): his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God.” Jehovah is Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21;Jer32:18; Ps 50:1 38. Isaiah 44:6 ‘Thus saith Jehovah the King of Israel (Father) and his redeemer Jehovah of hosts (Son)” 39. Isaiah 48:12,13,16 “Hearken unto me…Mine hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand has spanned the heavens:…Come ye near unto me,..the Lord GOD, and his Spirit has sent me.” Me, mine, my and me is God the Son describing his two works of creation and of incarnation to save man. 40. Ezekiel 44:1,2 “This gate shall be shut…because Jehovah, the God of Israel has entered in by it.” In Luke 19:45-47 Jesus, who is Jehovah, fulfilled this prophecy, entering the east gate on a colt in 33AD. 41. Hosea 4:1 and 5:15. Jehovah will return to ‘my place’ (heaven), till the Jews admit their offence of killing Jesus. “Hear the word of the LORD (Jehovah) (4:1),.I will go and return to my place (heaven), till they (Jews) acknowledge their offence (of killing Jesus), and seek my face: in their affliction (7 year tribulation) they (Jews) will seek me early.” Jehovah the Son came from heaven to be born of Mary as a man, he was rejected and crucified by the Jews. The resurrected Lord Jesus returned to heaven. Jesus will return when the Jews acknowledge their offence of killing Jesus. This occurs after the 7 year tribulation. 42. Zechariah 11:4,12,13. “Thus saith the LORD (Jehovah) my God; (v.4). If ye think good, give me my price; So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver (v.12)….I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD’ (Zechariah 11:4,12,13). (silver, temple floor, potter field) These three prophecies were fulfilled in Judas betraying Jesus Christ in Matthew 26:14-16 and 27:3-10. 43. Zechariah 12:9-10. When Jesus Christ returns to earth, He is identified as Jehovah God whom Israel pierced on the cross. “I (Jehovah) will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem (v.9). They (Israel) shall look upon me (Jehovah) whom they have pierced.” Jesus fulfilled this in John 19:37. 44. Zechariah 14:3,4,5,9. When Jesus Christ returns to earth on the Mount of Olives, He is identified as Jehovah God (Zechariah 14:3,4). ‘Then shall the LORD (Jehovah) go forth and fight against those nations, And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives (v.3-4)....the LORD (Jehovah) my God shall come, and all the saints with thee (v.5)….the LORD (Jehovah) shall be king over all the earth.’ When Jesus ascended to heaven from the Mount of Olives, two angels told those witnesses present that “this same Jesus shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:10-12). 45. In Zechariah 2:8-11, Jehovah the Son states twice that Jehovah the Father has sent Him to Israel. This proves that there are at least two persons in the Godhead, both called Jehovah. “For thus saith Jehovah of hosts (the Son).. (v.8) Ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts (the Father) hath sent me (v.9). ‘I (Jehovah the Son) will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that Jehovah of hosts (Father) hath sent me unto thee.” (v.11). Lesson: Jehovah (the Father) sends Jehovah (the Son). Two persons here are named Jehovah. This clearly proves that Jesus Christ in His pre-incarnate state is fully Jehovah God. 46. In Zechariah 3:2 “Jehovah said unto Satan, Jehovah rebuke thee, O Satan”. One person in the Jehovah Godhead speaks about another person in the Jehovah Godhead. See Isaiah 48:16 Rules of Grammar dictate that: “Jehovah (the first person = person speaking) said unto Satan (the second person = person spoken to), Jehovah (the third person = person spoken about) rebuke thee.”
  7. The Trinity and Bible Proofs that Jesus Christ is God 1. Matthew 28:17-20 “they worshipped him”, “All power is given to me”, “I am with you always” and “baptizing them in the name (one God) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” = Trinity. 2. In Matthew 3:1-3, Jesus Christ fulfils Isaiah 40:3 to ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah’ and our God. 3. John 1:1 “the word was God” (KJV, NIV), not ‘a god’ (NWT). a) Isaiah 44:8 ‘Is there a God beside me?’ b) The absence of the article before “theos” (God) identifies “word” as the subject (Colwell’s rule)Ans855 ‘The subject is identified by the article (ho logos) and the predicate (theos) without it.’ AT Robertson 5,4. John did not use the word for “Godlike or a lesser god” (theios) to describe Jesus, but used “theos” (God). All early writers disagree with JWs. (Irenaeus,Theophilus, Clement,Tertullian, Origen, Cyprian, Tatian). All modern Greek experts disagree with JWs. (Zodhiates, AT Robertson, Wuest, Vine, Vincent, Mantey) 4. John 1:3 “All things were made by him” Malachi 2:10 “Hath not one God created us?” Jesus is Creator. 5. John 3:13 “Son of man which is in heaven.” Jesus is omnipresent (on earth and in heaven at same time) 6. John 4:42 “Christ, the Saviour of the world.” Isaiah 43:11 “Jehovah; beside me there is no saviour.” 7. John 5:18 “said God was his Father, making himself equal with God”. John believed it and quoted it. 8. John 5:23 “all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father” Do you honour the Son as God? 9. John 6:46 “Not that any man hath seen the Father.” Who did OT saints see who they said was God?Is6:5 10. John 8:24 “If ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.” Jehovah is “I am” in Exodus 3:1-14. 11. John 8:58,59 “Before Abraham was, I am. They took up stones to cast at him.” Jesus said He is God. 12. John 10:30 “I and my Father are One. They took up stones to stone him.” No stoning if agree with God. 13. John 10:33 “thou being a man, makest thyself God. They sought again to take him (39)”. Why? 14. John 16:15 “All things that the Father hath are mine:” All the Father’s attributes as God are Christ’s. 15. John 17:5 “the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Isaiah 42:8 “I am Jehovah: my glory will I not give to another.” Jesus is Jehovah because he alone shares Jehovah’s exclusive glory. 16. John 20:28 “Thomas said unto him (Jesus), My Lord and my God.” No rebuke for blasphemy or error. 17. Acts 20:28 “Feed the church of God, which he (God) hath purchased with his own blood.” Jesus =God 18. I Cor. 1:2 “all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ.” Prayer to Jesus makes him God. 19. I Corinthians 15:47 ‘the second man is the Lord from heaven’ This is Jesus. No man is from heaven. 20. II Corinthians 13:14 is the Apostolic Benediction:“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.” (II Corinthians 13:14). Why is there a change in the order of the persons of the Trinity, compared to Matthew 28:19, if not to show that in this Trinity none is before or after the other, and none is better than another? 21. Philippians 2:6 “Who being in the form of God (in His pre-incarnate state Christ had the form of God) thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” (a prize to be held on to, not a prize to be won. AT Robertson). 22. Colossians 2:9 “In him (Christ) dwells all the fullness (exhausts the limits) of the Godhead bodily.” 23. I Thes 4:14 “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” Jesus returns as God at rapture. 24. I Timothy 3:16 “God was manifest in the flesh.” Jesus is God the Son conceived in Mary. 25. Titus 2:13 “the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Granville-Sharp rule: Jesus is God and Saviour. 26. Hebrews 1:6 “Let all the angels of God worship him.” Only worship God. Matt 4:10, Ps97:7 Son is God 27. Hebrews 1:8 “To the Son he saith, ‘Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever’” Psalm 45:6,7. Son is God. 28. Hebrew 1:10 “And (to the Son he saith), Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:.thou art the same.” Son is unchangeable creator. Ps102:24 29. Hebrews 1:13 To which of the angels said he, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 35 30. I John 5:7 “There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” The heavenly and earthly witnesses in v.7,8 are confirmed in v.9 by God and men. The masculine article (oi) for “that” in v.7 is derived from the masculine nouns “Father and Word” in v.7. 31. Revelation 1:17,18 “I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth and was dead;” Jesus = first and last. Revelation 1:11 “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:” Jesus = first and last = Alpha and Omega. Revelation 22:12,13 “I come quickly; I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.” Jesus=Alpha & Omega. Revelation 1:8 “I am Alpha and Omega, the Almighty.” Jesus = first & last = Alpha & Omega =Almighty 32. Revelation 22:3 “the throne of God and of the Lamb.” Both God and the Lamb equally own the throne. Revelation 22:3 “his servants shall serve him:” Both God and the Lamb equally own the same servants. Revelation 22:4 “they shall see his face.” Both God and the Lamb have the same face. Revelation 22:4 “his name shall be in their foreheads.” Both God and the Lamb have the same name. Revelation 20:6 “they shall be priests (of God and of Christ), and shall reign with HIM a thousand years” Revelation 21:22 “for (the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb) are the temple of it.” Both are temple of NJ Revelation 21:23 “for (the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light) thereof.” Both light of NJ 33. God identifies Himself as “us” (a Trinity) in:‘God said “let us make man in our image”’ Genesis 1:26 ‘Jehovah God said, “Behold the man is become as one of us . . .’ Genesis 3:22. ‘Jehovah came down … the Lord said, let us go down.’ Genesis 11:5,7 ‘who will go for us?’ Isaiah 6:8. 34. Exodus 3:14 “I AM hath sent me unto you.” ‘I AM’ is the name of the angel of Jehovah, Jehovah, God (2,4,6) & Jesus in John 8:58 “Before Abraham was, I AM” & John 8:24 “If ye believe not that I AM” 35. Psalm 110:1. God told David that David’s son would be David’s God. ‘The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord (Adonai), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.’ Jesus applied this to Himself in Matthew 22:41-45 as a question: ‘If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?’ This shows that Jesus Christ would be both a man descended from David and David’s God. 36. Isaiah 6:1-8,5. “Mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts” on the throne in heaven. God asked Isaiah “who will go for us?” (‘us’ = trinity). In John 12:37-41, John said, “These things said Esaias when he saw his (Jesus) glory, and spake of him (Jesus).” Jesus was the King, Jehovah of hosts that Isaiah saw. 37. Isaiah 9:6 ‘Unto us a child is born (human Jesus),unto us a son is given (God the Son): his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God.” Jehovah is Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21;Jer32:18; Ps 50:1 38. Isaiah 44:6 ‘Thus saith Jehovah the King of Israel (Father) and his redeemer Jehovah of hosts (Son)” 39. Isaiah 48:12,13,16 “Hearken unto me…Mine hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand has spanned the heavens:…Come ye near unto me,..the Lord GOD, and his Spirit has sent me.” Me, mine, my and me is God the Son describing his two works of creation and of incarnation to save man. 40. Ezekiel 44:1,2 “This gate shall be shut…because Jehovah, the God of Israel has entered in by it.” In Luke 19:45-47 Jesus, who is Jehovah, fulfilled this prophecy, entering the east gate on a colt in 33AD. 41. Hosea 4:1 and 5:15. Jehovah will return to ‘my place’ (heaven), till the Jews admit their offence of killing Jesus. “Hear the word of the LORD (Jehovah) (4:1),.I will go and return to my place (heaven), till they (Jews) acknowledge their offence (of killing Jesus), and seek my face: in their affliction (7 year tribulation) they (Jews) will seek me early.” Jehovah the Son came from heaven to be born of Mary as a man, he was rejected and crucified by the Jews. The resurrected Lord Jesus returned to heaven. Jesus will return when the Jews acknowledge their offence of killing Jesus. This occurs after the 7 year tribulation. 42. Zechariah 11:4,12,13. “Thus saith the LORD (Jehovah) my God; (v.4). If ye think good, give me my price; So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver (v.12)….I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD’ (Zechariah 11:4,12,13). (silver, temple floor, potter field) These three prophecies were fulfilled in Judas betraying Jesus Christ in Matthew 26:14-16 and 27:3-10. 43. Zechariah 12:9-10. When Jesus Christ returns to earth, He is identified as Jehovah God whom Israel pierced on the cross. “I (Jehovah) will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem (v.9). They (Israel) shall look upon me (Jehovah) whom they have pierced.” Jesus fulfilled this in John 19:37. 44. Zechariah 14:3,4,5,9. When Jesus Christ returns to earth on the Mount of Olives, He is identified as Jehovah God (Zechariah 14:3,4). ‘Then shall the LORD (Jehovah) go forth and fight against those nations, And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives (v.3-4)....the LORD (Jehovah) my God shall come, and all the saints with thee (v.5)….the LORD (Jehovah) shall be king over all the earth.’ When Jesus ascended to heaven from the Mount of Olives, two angels told those witnesses present that “this same Jesus shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:10-12). 45. In Zechariah 2:8-11, Jehovah the Son states twice that Jehovah the Father has sent Him to Israel. This proves that there are at least two persons in the Godhead, both called Jehovah. “For thus saith Jehovah of hosts (the Son).. (v.8) Ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts (the Father) hath sent me (v.9). ‘I (Jehovah the Son) will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that Jehovah of hosts (Father) hath sent me unto thee.” (v.11). Lesson: Jehovah (the Father) sends Jehovah (the Son). Two persons here are named Jehovah. This clearly proves that Jesus Christ in His pre-incarnate state is fully Jehovah God. 46. In Zechariah 3:2 “Jehovah said unto Satan, Jehovah rebuke thee, O Satan”. One person in the Jehovah Godhead speaks about another person in the Jehovah Godhead. See Isaiah 48:16 Rules of Grammar dictate that: “Jehovah (the first person = person speaking) said unto Satan (the second person = person spoken to), Jehovah (the third person = person spoken about) rebuke thee.”
  8. I'm a former Oneness Pentecostal, also known as Apostolics or Jesus Only; I was involved with them in London, England in the last 1980s. Would anyone like to ask me some questions about them? I've studied their doctrines for almost thirty years now. My YouTube channel (Christian Comedy Channel) has a Oneness playlist with 99 videos and my channel has well over 7 million hits.
  9. Waggles

    Oneness versus Trinity

    I have always thought of God as the Father , the Son and the Holy Ghost. Being Pentecostal I joined an Apostolic Chat site and came across a totally new doctrine Oneness - both a denomination and a doctrine. What blew me away was the immediate challenging to me as to whether or not I believed in the Trinity. Then I was informed that if I believed in the Trinity I had lost my salvation as I was embracing unscriptural lies promulgated by false Christians. Really!! Is Oneness versus Trinitarianism a salvation issue.? Both sides of the argument use the same scriptures to justify their doctrinal positions.
  10. The Trinity and Bible Proofs that Jesus Christ is God 1. Matthew 28:17-20 “they worshipped him”, “All power is given to me”, “I am with you always” and “baptizing them in the name (one God) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” = Trinity. 2. In Matthew 3:1-3, Jesus Christ fulfils Isaiah 40:3 to ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah’ and our God. 3. John 1:1 “the word was God” (KJV, NIV), not ‘a god’ (NWT). a) Isaiah 44:8 ‘Is there a God beside me?’ b) The absence of the article before “theos” (God) identifies “word” as the subject (Colwell’s rule)Ans855 ‘The subject is identified by the article (ho logos) and the predicate (theos) without it.’ AT Robertson 5,4. John did not use the word for “Godlike or a lesser god” (theios) to describe Jesus, but used “theos” (God). All early writers disagree with JWs. (Irenaeus,Theophilus, Clement,Tertullian, Origen, Cyprian, Tatian). All modern Greek experts disagree with JWs. (Zodhiates, AT Robertson, Wuest, Vine, Vincent, Mantey) 4. John 1:3 “All things were made by him” Malachi 2:10 “Hath not one God created us?” Jesus is Creator. 5. John 3:13 “Son of man which is in heaven.” Jesus is omnipresent (on earth and in heaven at same time) 6. John 4:42 “Christ, the Saviour of the world.” Isaiah 43:11 “Jehovah; beside me there is no saviour.” 7. John 5:18 “said God was his Father, making himself equal with God”. John believed it and quoted it. 8. John 5:23 “all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father” Do you honour the Son as God? 9. John 6:46 “Not that any man hath seen the Father.” Who did OT saints see who they said was God?Is6:5 10. John 8:24 “If ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.” Jehovah is “I am” in Exodus 3:1-14. 11. John 8:58,59 “Before Abraham was, I am. They took up stones to cast at him.” Jesus said He is God. 12. John 10:30 “I and my Father are One. They took up stones to stone him.” No stoning if agree with God. 13. John 10:33 “thou being a man, makest thyself God. They sought again to take him (39)”. Why? 14. John 16:15 “All things that the Father hath are mine:” All the Father’s attributes as God are Christ’s. 15. John 17:5 “the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Isaiah 42:8 “I am Jehovah: my glory will I not give to another.” Jesus is Jehovah because he alone shares Jehovah’s exclusive glory. 16. John 20:28 “Thomas said unto him (Jesus), My Lord and my God.” No rebuke for blasphemy or error. 17. Acts 20:28 “Feed the church of God, which he (God) hath purchased with his own blood.” Jesus =God 18. I Cor. 1:2 “all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ.” Prayer to Jesus makes him God. 19. I Corinthians 15:47 ‘the second man is the Lord from heaven’ This is Jesus. No man is from heaven. 20. II Corinthians 13:14 is the Apostolic Benediction:“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.” (II Corinthians 13:14). Why is there a change in the order of the persons of the Trinity, compared to Matthew 28:19, if not to show that in this Trinity none is before or after the other, and none is better than another? 21. Philippians 2:6 “Who being in the form of God (in His pre-incarnate state Christ had the form of God) thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” (a prize to be held on to, not a prize to be won. AT Robertson). 22. Colossians 2:9 “In him (Christ) dwells all the fullness (exhausts the limits) of the Godhead bodily.” 23. I Thes 4:14 “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” Jesus returns as God at rapture. 24. I Timothy 3:16 “God was manifest in the flesh.” Jesus is God the Son conceived in Mary. 25. Titus 2:13 “the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Granville-Sharp rule: Jesus is God and Saviour. 26. Hebrews 1:6 “Let all the angels of God worship him.” Only worship God. Matt 4:10, Ps97:7 Son is God 27. Hebrews 1:8 “To the Son he saith, ‘Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever’” Psalm 45:6,7. Son is God. 28. Hebrew 1:10 “And (to the Son he saith), Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:.thou art the same.” Son is unchangeable creator. Ps102:24 29. Hebrews 1:13 To which of the angels said he, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 35 30. I John 5:7 “There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” The heavenly and earthly witnesses in v.7,8 are confirmed in v.9 by God and men. The masculine article (oi) for “that” in v.7 is derived from the masculine nouns “Father and Word” in v.7. 31. Revelation 1:17,18 “I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth and was dead;” Jesus = first and last. Revelation 1:11 “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:” Jesus = first and last = Alpha and Omega. Revelation 22:12,13 “I come quickly; I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.” Jesus=Alpha & Omega. Revelation 1:8 “I am Alpha and Omega, the Almighty.” Jesus = first & last = Alpha & Omega =Almighty 32. Revelation 22:3 “the throne of God and of the Lamb.” Both God and the Lamb equally own the throne. Revelation 22:3 “his servants shall serve him:” Both God and the Lamb equally own the same servants. Revelation 22:4 “they shall see his face.” Both God and the Lamb have the same face. Revelation 22:4 “his name shall be in their foreheads.” Both God and the Lamb have the same name. Revelation 20:6 “they shall be priests (of God and of Christ), and shall reign with HIM a thousand years” Revelation 21:22 “for (the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb) are the temple of it.” Both are temple of NJ Revelation 21:23 “for (the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light) thereof.” Both light of NJ 33. God identifies Himself as “us” (a Trinity) in:‘God said “let us make man in our image”’ Genesis 1:26 ‘Jehovah God said, “Behold the man is become as one of us . . .’ Genesis 3:22. ‘Jehovah came down … the Lord said, let us go down.’ Genesis 11:5,7 ‘who will go for us?’ Isaiah 6:8. 34. Exodus 3:14 “I AM hath sent me unto you.” ‘I AM’ is the name of the angel of Jehovah, Jehovah, God (2,4,6) & Jesus in John 8:58 “Before Abraham was, I AM” & John 8:24 “If ye believe not that I AM” 35. Psalm 110:1. God told David that David’s son would be David’s God. ‘The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord (Adonai), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.’ Jesus applied this to Himself in Matthew 22:41-45 as a question: ‘If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?’ This shows that Jesus Christ would be both a man descended from David and David’s God. 36. Isaiah 6:1-8,5. “Mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts” on the throne in heaven. God asked Isaiah “who will go for us?” (‘us’ = trinity). In John 12:37-41, John said, “These things said Esaias when he saw his (Jesus) glory, and spake of him (Jesus).” Jesus was the King, Jehovah of hosts that Isaiah saw. 37. Isaiah 9:6 ‘Unto us a child is born (human Jesus),unto us a son is given (God the Son): his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God.” Jehovah is Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21;Jer32:18; Ps 50:1 38. Isaiah 44:6 ‘Thus saith Jehovah the King of Israel (Father) and his redeemer Jehovah of hosts (Son)” 39. Isaiah 48:12,13,16 “Hearken unto me…Mine hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand has spanned the heavens:…Come ye near unto me,..the Lord GOD, and his Spirit has sent me.” Me, mine, my and me is God the Son describing his two works of creation and of incarnation to save man. 40. Ezekiel 44:1,2 “This gate shall be shut…because Jehovah, the God of Israel has entered in by it.” In Luke 19:45-47 Jesus, who is Jehovah, fulfilled this prophecy, entering the east gate on a colt in 33AD. 41. Hosea 4:1 and 5:15. Jehovah will return to ‘my place’ (heaven), till the Jews admit their offence of killing Jesus. “Hear the word of the LORD (Jehovah) (4:1),.I will go and return to my place (heaven), till they (Jews) acknowledge their offence (of killing Jesus), and seek my face: in their affliction (7 year tribulation) they (Jews) will seek me early.” Jehovah the Son came from heaven to be born of Mary as a man, he was rejected and crucified by the Jews. The resurrected Lord Jesus returned to heaven. Jesus will return when the Jews acknowledge their offence of killing Jesus. This occurs after the 7 year tribulation. 42. Zechariah 11:4,12,13. “Thus saith the LORD (Jehovah) my God; (v.4). If ye think good, give me my price; So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver (v.12)….I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD’ (Zechariah 11:4,12,13). (silver, temple floor, potter field) These three prophecies were fulfilled in Judas betraying Jesus Christ in Matthew 26:14-16 and 27:3-10. 43. Zechariah 12:9-10. When Jesus Christ returns to earth, He is identified as Jehovah God whom Israel pierced on the cross. “I (Jehovah) will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem (v.9). They (Israel) shall look upon me (Jehovah) whom they have pierced.” Jesus fulfilled this in John 19:37. 44. Zechariah 14:3,4,5,9. When Jesus Christ returns to earth on the Mount of Olives, He is identified as Jehovah God (Zechariah 14:3,4). ‘Then shall the LORD (Jehovah) go forth and fight against those nations, And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives (v.3-4)....the LORD (Jehovah) my God shall come, and all the saints with thee (v.5)….the LORD (Jehovah) shall be king over all the earth.’ When Jesus ascended to heaven from the Mount of Olives, two angels told those witnesses present that “this same Jesus shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:10-12). 45. In Zechariah 2:8-11, Jehovah the Son states twice that Jehovah the Father has sent Him to Israel. This proves that there are at least two persons in the Godhead, both called Jehovah. “For thus saith Jehovah of hosts (the Son).. (v.8) Ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts (the Father) hath sent me (v.9). ‘I (Jehovah the Son) will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that Jehovah of hosts (Father) hath sent me unto thee.” (v.11). Lesson: Jehovah (the Father) sends Jehovah (the Son). Two persons here are named Jehovah. This clearly proves that Jesus Christ in His pre-incarnate state is fully Jehovah God. 46. In Zechariah 3:2 “Jehovah said unto Satan, Jehovah rebuke thee, O Satan”. One person in the Jehovah Godhead speaks about another person in the Jehovah Godhead. See Isaiah 48:16 Rules of Grammar dictate that: “Jehovah (the first person = person speaking) said unto Satan (the second person = person spoken to), Jehovah (the third person = person spoken about) rebuke thee.”
  11. Robert Skynner Flat XXX XXXXX House XXXXX Street Plymouth Devon XXX XXXX (United Kingdom) 13th May 2017 Dear Eddie, Thank you for the gift of the silver NWT Bible, it would be great if you would kindly explain one problem which I, a Trinitarian, have with it, namely John 8:58: “Jesus said to them, most truly, I say unto you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” (John 8:58, NWT, 2013 (silver) revised edition). The New World Translation (NWT) of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, is the only Bible which mistranslates the Greek: "ego eimi," (this is the first person singular present tense of the verb "to be"), of John 8:58, as: "I have been?" All other versions of the Bible translate it correctly as "I am," and even the New World Translation itself, translates "ego eimi," consistently and accurately as "I am," elsewhere throughout the New Testament, i.e. at John 8:24, 9:5 and 9:9; which predate and postdate this verse! Why "ego eimi," means "I am" at every occurrence bar one is a puzzle to me, especially when the Watchtower Society has no Greek or Hebrew scholars that they can name. The NWT is not translated by educated and reliable scholars, but by amateurs with no knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. However, this problem is greatly compounded for the Watchtower Society, when one considers the differing marginal notes and explanations of Greek tenses, which have been used to explain the mistranslation of "ego eimi," as "I am." The 1950 NWT edition of the Greek Scriptures, on page 312, and the NWT 1960 Bible on page 3108, explains "ego eimi," here as a perfect indefinite tense, a tense which does not exist in Greek, or even in any other language. In the 1969 (Purple) edition of the Kingdom Interlinear, on page 467, this tense was now changed to the perfect tense, some nineteen years later and after millions of Bible printings which contain the earlier nonexistent tense! Then in 1985, the revised (Blue) edition of the Kingdom Interlinear, on page 451, changes this to the perfect indicative. This is a third tense! Eddie, I enclose scans of these books. If you are unable to get hold of these books then please do visit me, and I can show you these originals. Please pass my details onto any Witness who is willing to study a part of the Really Teach book. Yours Sincerely Robert Skynner
  12. Watchtower Craziness: The Jehovah's Witnessess used to teach that false governments and religion would be destroyed in October 1914. Oh dear, that got that wrong! Here is a scan from their book: "The Battle of Armageddon" (Aka Studies in the Scriptures volume 4), 1924 edition, page 616.
  13. Today, Jehovah's Witnesses will tell you from their current literature (What Does the Bible Really Teach, page 85), that Jesus Christ began to reign in the year 1914 when his invisible presence also took place at the very same time: so according to them he became a king in that specific year and not before. This despite his having "all authority" from his resurrection (Matthew 28:18), his having a kingdom Colossians 1:13 when Paul wrote Colossians in the mid 50s, and his being called a King in Hebrews again after his resurrection (Hebrews 1:9). However, looking at the older Watchtower literature, in a book titled: "The Battle of Armageddon" (also called Studies in the Scriptures, volume 4), the 1924 edition, on page 621, we read that Christ's invisible presence dates from 1874 and his reign as King from April 1878.
  14. One of the main arguments which Jehovah's Witnesses will claim when they approach you on your own doorstep, is that the divine name (YHWH - popularized as Jehovah, which even they will admit is an incorrect rendering), has been removed from the Bible being substituted with the word "LORD." This substitution was made by the ancient Jewish leaders, in order to prevent the name of God being used in everyday profane speech by God's people, as we hear today on so much television and in the Hollywood films, where the Jewish producers will often include the occasional "Jesus" or "Christ" as a profanity or as a swear word. So returning to the Jehovah's Witnesses, they will claim that it is a sin to remove the sacred name (YHWH) or Jehovah from the text of the Old Testament. However, by comparing Psalm 14:2 in their latest 2013 edition of their NWT (New World Translation) with Psalm 53:2 in the same NWT, we can see that Jehovah himself, has removed YHWH (Jehovah) from the text of Psalm 53:2, substituting it with Elohim (God). So ask the next Jehovah's Witness whom you meet to explain this substitution by Jehovah himself to you?
  15. Robert Skynner xx xxxxx Road Launceston Cornwall xxxx xxxx 28th October 1999 Dear Alan, I hope that you are well, and thank you for your letter that I received last month. I am however, puzzled by a few of the comments in several of the Watchtower society books that I have recently purchased. As I have a scanner, I have scanned the relevant passages and was wondering if you could please help me, with some of these strange comments and also in my own humble opinion ‘unbiblical’ statements. Firstly, I have enclosed below a photocopy taken from: ‘Then is finished the mystery of God’ page 222. You will notice that it uses one of Satan’s ‘names’; ‘Apollyon’ for Jesus Christ! The point that I have difficulty accepting here, is simply that Jesus Christ is not Satan, and that I find the application of one of Satan’s names to Jehovah’s Son highly disrespectful. On the next page (223), this same book states that JW’s, are symbolised as following Apollyon out of the bottomless pit. (I cannot post scans from this word document into Worthy Christian Forums) The next scan has been taken from page 223 of the same book. The symbolic locusts from the pit of the abyss who accompany Apollyon are supposed to be Jehovah’s Witnesses !!! (I cannot post scans from this word document into Worthy Christian Forums) Another photocopy (below) is taken from the book ‘Deliverance,’ it states on the fifth unnumbered page that at one time Jesus and Lucifer were brothers !!!! I most certainly do not believe this, and find it a most offensive comment indeed. (I cannot post scans from this word document into Worthy Christian Forums) I find these comments about who Jesus is very dubious, but especially so in the light of the fact that the Watchtower, makes audacious claims for itself. In the scan below taken from the Watchtower of 4/1/72 page 197, the Watchtower claims that it is an inspired prophet. If the Watchtower is a prophet, that speaks for God, I must ask you Alan, why then has it made changes and mistakes. Does God lie or makes mistakes? Certainly not in the light of Deuteronomy 13:1-5, 18:18-20 and Isaiah 8:20. (I cannot post scans from this word document into Worthy Christian Forums) In the following quote (below) Watchtower May 1st 1957, page 274, the Watchtower society is likened to a ‘Mother’ in a very similar way that the heretical mediaeval Roman Catholic Church also called itself ‘Mother Church’ to whom one went for salvation …. or so those poor deluded Roman Catholics believed! (I cannot post scans from this word document into Worthy Christian Forums) In the middle ages, the medieval Roman Catholic Church taught that one had to go to their religious organisations for salvation, rather than go to his Son for salvation (Acts 4:12). It is therefore strange that the Watchtower makes a very similar claim below. The Watchtower 15th November 1981, page 21 (below). (I cannot post scans from this word document into Worthy Christian Forums) In the following quote has been taken from The Watchtower 15th February 1981, page 19. The Watchtower Society takes the place of the ‘Holy Spirit’, (John 16:13), by leading us into ‘all truth’. This again is very similar to the claims of the Roman Catholics, and most modern sects such as the ‘Mormons’, which would claim that only their religious organisation can lead us to Christ, who in turn then leads us to Jehovah (God). Thus the Bible is the word of God (for RC’s) as the Pope will claim, but only he being an apostle of Christ and successor of Peter, is inspired by God to interpret Scripture for us. Likewise the Mormons will also admit that the Bible is God’s word, but they also regard it as a closed book, that can only understood by their leader and prophet in Utah, USA. Who speaks to us through the book of Mormon, and the other Mormon literature and publications. Thus both of these religions claim, that Jesus is the only way to the Father, yet also affirm that their religion is the only way to Jesus. (I cannot post scans from this word document into Worthy Christian Forums) Here the Society claims in the 1983 yearbook of JW, on page 21, that a man-inspired magazine is the sole interpreter of the Bible. This is similar to the Pope claiming that he and he alone is the sole interpretator of the Scriptures, the Mormons claiming the same for their leader, the Moonies claiming the same of Rev Moon etc and etc. (I cannot post scans from this word document into Worthy Christian Forums) Here in Vindication Book 3, page 250, and published 1932. Judge Rutherford claims to receive ‘angelic messages’ from angels who directly pass on instructions from Jehovah God to leaders of the society. I should not have to point out to you Alan that spiritism (contact with spirit beings) is strictly forbidden in the Scriptures. (I cannot post scans from this word document into Worthy Christian Forums) Thank you very much for taking the time to read this letter. I would be most grateful if you would take to time to reply to these concerns of mine. I am anxious to find out why the Watchtower makes claims for itself and its authority which are so very similar to that of the Pope and Roman Catholic system. Yours sincerely Robert Skynner
  16. Robert xxxxxx xxx xxxx House xxxxx Street Plymouth xxxx xxxx thebagge2@yahoo.co.uk Dear Robert, How are you? I hope that you are keeping well. I was wondering if I could please ask a small favour of you. I’m after a copy of the July 2008 Watchtower (an article on faith – or is it July 2007?) as well as page 14 from the 15th Sept 2002 Watchtower. I hope that you don’t mind me asking you this; I enclose some stamps to cover the cost. Feel free to pass my details onto whoever you see fit, if for instance you know of someone in my area who might have these Watchtowers. I’m also very interested in the Watchtowers position on Jehovah. I believe that they teach that Jehovah isn’t omnipresent: 5th Feb 1981 page 6. So I was wondering if somebody could please help me with a study re his other attributes – is Jehovah (Father) almighty (i.e. omnipotent), creator, omniscient etc. If Jehovah isn’t omnipresent but he is almighty then how can this be? For if the Holy Spirit is omnipresent but ‘it’ isn’t almighty, then wouldn’t that make the Holy Spirit in one sense be more almighty (with regard to the attribute of Omnipresence) than the Father (Jehovah)? So how can the Father be almighty (which literally means all power) and yet Jehovah lacks the power to be omnipresent; just as the Holy Spirit is omnipresent? Is anyone able to help me with this? Thank you Robert for your kind help, I’m extremely grateful to you. Yours Faithfully XXXXX XXXXXXX
  17. Robert Skynner xxxx xxxx House xxxx Street Plymouth, xxx xxxx 25th March 2012 Dear Richard, I’ve been looking at the Watchtower’s teachings on the generation which saw the events of 1914. Here are the results of my findings together with some scans. 1. 1897 to 1914: The generation which will see the events of 1914 is a LITERAL generation. Studies in the Scriptures, volume 4, page 605. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 2. From 1915 to 1927: When Armageddon didn’t happen in 1914, the Society consequently held no position on the 1914 Generation. 3. From 1927 until either the late 1940’s (or until 1951), they re-established that the Generation which would saw the events of 1914, but re-interpreting it as a spiritual (that is as a ‘new’) generation. See: The Watchtower, 15th February 1927, page 62 (below): (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 4. From the late 1940s? (or from 1951?), the generation which saw the events of 1914 was re-established once again as a literal generation. The scan below is from the Watchtower 1st July 1951, page 404. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 4.1 Awake 8th October 1968, page 14. This literal generation which saw the year 1914, is comprised of people aged 15 years and upwards. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 4.2: The Watchtower, 1st October 1978, page 31. This literal generation which saw the year 1914 does not comprise babies. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 4:3: The Watchtower, 15th October 1980, pages 30-31. Now the generation which saw the events of the year 1914 is aged 10 years and older. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 4:4: The Watchtower, 15th May 1984, page 5. Now the generation which saw the events of 1914 does apply to babies. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 5. The (literal) Generation is now described as being 70 or 80 years in length: AID Book, page 641. Which would make 1994 (1914 plus 80 years) the cut off point in the length of this generation. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 6. The Watchtower, 1st November 1995, page 19 (section 8). The term Generation is now reinterpreted as having only a spiritual application, it no longer has a literal application to the 1914 date. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) The Watchtower, 1st November 1995, page 19 (section 12). Now the generation is re-interpretated as a ‘wicked generation.’ (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 7. The Watchtower, 1st May 2007, pages 30-31. In this Watchtower the claim that the anointed class was completed in the year 1935 is now overturned. This is important as the Watchtower is now allowing Jehovah to add to the anointed class today. Page 30: (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) Page 31: (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 8. Watchtower, 15th February 2008, pages 24-25. Having abandoned the claim that the anointed class was completed in the year 1935 in the previous year [1st May 2007 Watchtower]; now the Watchtower claims that the generation which saw the year 1914 is a class of anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses whose lives overlap. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) Page 24: (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) Page 25: (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) 9. Watchtower, April 15th 2010, page 10. In this article the claim that the generation which saw 1914 is now made up on anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses (the 144,000) whose lives overlap. Is now made more clearly. (Sadly pictures won't copy from word) SUMMARY: The generation which saw 1914 was: Literal 1897 - 1914 No position held 1915 - 1927 Spiritual 1927 - 1951 Literal 1951 - 1995 Wicked 1995 - 2008 Anointed with an Overlap 2008 - Today Yours Sincerely Robert XXXXXX HOW CAN PEOPLE TRUST SUCH AN UNRELIABLE RELIGIOUS ORGANISATION?
  18. Robert xxxxxxx Flat xxx xxxx House xxxxxx Street Plymouth xxx xxxx 13th May 2017 thebagge2@yahoo.co.uk Dear Eddie, Thank you for the gift of the silver NWT Bible, it would be great if you would kindly explain one problem which I, ,a Trinitarian, have with it, namely John 8:58: “Jesus said to them, most truly, I say unto you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” (John 8:58, NWT, 2013 ed). The New World Translation (NWT) of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, is the only Bible which mistranslates the Greek: "ego eimi," (this is the first person singular present tense of the verb "to be"), of John 8:58, as: "I have been?" All other versions of the Bible translate it correctly as "I am," and even the New World Translation itself, translates "ego eimi," consistently and accurately as "I am," elsewhere throughout the New Testament, i.e. at John 8:24, 9:5 and 9:9; which predate and postdate this verse! Why "ego eimi," means "I am" at every occurrence bar one is a puzzle to me, especially when the Watchtower Society has no Greek or Hebrew scholars which they can name. The NWT isn't translated by educated and reliable scholars with degrees, but by amateurs who possess no genuine knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. However, this problem is greatly compounded for the Watchtower Society, when one considers the differing marginal notes of four claimed Greek tenses, which have been used to explain the mistranslation of "ego eimi," as "I am." The 1950 NWT edition of the Greek Scriptures, on page 312, explains the Greek: "ego eimi," here as a perfect indefinite tense, a tense which does not exist in Greek, or even in any other language. The NWT 1960 Bible on page 3108, explains this as an aorist indefinite. In the 1969 (Purple) edition of the Kingdom Interlinear on page 467, this tense was now changed to the perfect tense, some nineteen years later and after millions of Bible printings which contain the earlier nonexistent tense! Then in 1985, the (Blue) edition of the Kingdom Interlinear on page 451, changes this to the perfect indicative. This is the fourth claimed tense! Eddie, I enclose scans of these books. If you are unable to get hold of these books then please do visit me, and I can show you these originals. Yours Sincerely
  19. ‘I and my Father are one.’ (John 10:30, KJV). ‘ego kai ho patar ev esmen: (John 10:30: The Nestles Greek text). ‘I ((Subject)) and ((conjunction)) my Father ((object)) are ((verb 1st-person-plural)) one ((adjective)).’ (John 10:30, KJV). Oneness Pentecostals (Apostolics), and I used to be one back in the 1980s, would need to explain the use of the verb ‘to be,’ which a first person plural at John 10:30; ‘I and my Father (we) are one.’ This verse does not record Jesus as saying; ‘I am the Father,’ for such a direct claim by Jesus to be God the Father, would have included the verb ‘to be’ in the first person singular: ‘I am.’ But Jesus at John 10:30 instead applies a plural verb to both the Father and also to the Son; ‘are’ as in ‘we are,’ which is the verb ‘to be,’ (esmen) a present tense, in first person plural. This is why he specifically claimed to be God’s Son, and not God the Father himself at John 10:36; ‘Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?’ Secondly, why is the Greek neuter word ‘hen’ for ‘one’ used at John 10:30 rather than the masculine Greek word for “one,” which is the Greek ‘heis?’ This masculine word is always used in the Greek, to describe God as ‘one’ in the strictly numeric sense, and so logically it would be the only word which Jesus could use to claim that he is himself really God the Father in an absolute and literal sense. So the neuter word ‘hen,’ just means to be ‘one in agreement’ or to be ‘one in unity’ with another person, it’s used that way at 1st Corinthians 3:8, where Paul planted and Apollos watered so that were one (hen), which doesn’t mean that Paul is claiming that he was Apollos! Paul is just saying that they worked together as a team, but not that they were both the same one person! As a former Oneness Pentecostal, allow me to warn people against this error, which is sweeping through and taking over nominally Trinitarian Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches around the world. I do have a video on my own YouTube channel of me explaining this verse, however, I do not know if I am permitted to post this here, possibly the admins could help me with the rules.
  20. Admins: could we have a separate forum for non-Trinitarian sects, so that we could discuss their particular false doctrines. If any Jehovah's Witness, Mormon or Oneness Apostolic were to join these forums, then we could evangelize them and help them to see the truth of the Trinity and Christ's full humanity and deity. I've made cult evangelism as specialization for many years, my having come out of the Oneness (Apostolic - Jesus Only) movement in 1989. A separate chat room for such cults might attract a few brave souls to come and visit us, please don't argue about people being corrupted or their faith compromised, as there are more than enough people who can give a good Trinitarian witness to these cults, I myself although not a DD or an expert, nonetheless do have 28 years experience in evangelizing cults.
  21. I was once a Oneness Pentecostal (Apostolic), way way back in the later 1980s, I left and became a Trinitarian after I had written a tract for them, promoting the Oneness view of Water Baptism and offering £1,000 if anyone could disprove the Oneness claim that you must be baptised with the formula: Lord Christ Christ in order to be saved. I live in the south-west of the UK (Plymouth) and no longer attend any fellowship, as that would be too painful to me, but I see the main Oneness claims (i.e. that Jesus is God the Father, and that the baptismal formula is Lord Jesus Christ), taking over so many individual believers in local fellowships, which nominally are Trinitarian, but within which elders and other leaders teach exactly as they choose, which is often anti-Trinitarian! The church situation here in the UK is so bad as to be dire beyond belief, you can't even sit down and discuss the Bible with religious people, they switch off the moment you try to discuss scripture. GOD TV has had a big part to play in this.
  22. Just a Mirror

    Explanation of Trinity.

    What is The Trinity? "God" is Spirit, "God" in terms of "The Original Essence" of The Creator, the Fullness, God before creation. God is Knowledge and Wisdom, in Human terms, in this Creation. The Father is. The Father is the Knowledge and Wisdom of God in Spirit.* From The Father came/comes The Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the Fullness of the Wisdom of The Father. The Spirit is not the Fullness of The Father. The Son is The Fullness of The Father and The Spirit. The Son is The Fullness of The Father Manifested in Creation.* Soo the Order of God is.. Pre-creation God becomes... The Father, The Holy Spirit, The Word. Trinity is just a term that describes the Revelation of God to Creation. Love and Peace.
  23. Hello brothers/sisters and thank you for taking the time for clicking on this thread -- I have one question, as simply as I can try to put it: Is the belief of the Trinity and the belief in the death of Jesus Christ absolutely imperative in order to be considered saved by Jesus Christ, or to be accepted by him? I ask this because, many people may see and know why the doctrine of the trinity may be a little tough to understand, keeping in mind that it has been shown that the Old Testament does not back up the doctrine of the Trinity, so we cannot say for sure if the Apostles or Jesus himself knew of this doctrine. If I believe that the Holy Spirit is within Jesus Christ, who was formed by the Word of God unto flesh, who acts as a Holy Vessel and connection to god, who spoke as a baby in the cradle, healed lepers and the blind and sick, and resurrected the dead, all by God's will. If I believe in his sacrifice, and that he was oppressed for preaching God's revelation, and that the situation of the Crucifixion was not the untimely demise of our beloved Jesus Christ, but a symbol to the people to show the power of God and the sacrifice he had in order people understand how grand and high Jesus was in the eyes of the Lord. If I believe that there was no resurrection because God would not have to kill his own connection of revelation for me, but I believe Jesus did sacrifice himself in order to help us never forget him, and that God knew it was time to Bring Jesus to Him to preserve him and bring him back to us at a time where we will need him the most, would I be accepted in the eyes of Jesus Christ? Very controversial points and I would like to apologize beforehand of any of this causes a feeling to be hurt; I am a sinful creation of God and I try my best to be fair and just with the way I speak. I am here purely for a learning experience and I am genuinely concerned for my belief and how I should approach God.
  24. btcaldwell

    Is God a Male?

    I was listening to a radio program yesterday and a pastor was asked if God is a man and his response was that God is not a man because he is not a person at all. He then went on to say that God has no gender and that gender only exist in this world for the purpose of procreating. I want to know how others see this.
  25. lavey.online

    Why Trinity ? Why not 4,5...

    Why Trinity ? God is of 3 persons ... Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Did anyone wonder why He is of 3 persons ? God has the power to split Himself into many persons ... Why not 4 ... 5 ... ... ... 1,345,654 ... infinity ?
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