HarvestLabourer

Thank you for that, Eileen. Thanks for the link. I decided to do some research to see if that is the case. I started with the genealogies of Jesus given in Matthew and Luke, and Zadok isn't in His line. Even Eleazer isn't in Jesus' line back to Abraham (though there is another Eleazar, but much later). Then it struck me, when I read the first sentence of Matthew again. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Matthew 1:1 Jesus comes down the line from David, and Zadok was the high priest in David's time. I'm not very good at genealogy, but doesn't that tell us definitely that Jesus cannot be in the line of Zadok? Zadok would have had to have been David's father, or son, to be in the same line, wouldn't he? Which he wasn't. David came from a different son of Levi. I think the presumption that our High Priest had to be of that line is wrong. And there are plenty of indications that Jesus is of David, and none really, that say He is of Zadok. And I will set up one shepherd over them, and He shall feed them, even My servant David; He shall feed them, and He shall be their shepherd. Ezekiel 34:23 And Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David? Mark 12:35 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David: Luke 1:32 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ comes of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? John 7:42 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to My gospel: 2 Timothy 2:8 I Jesus have sent Mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Revelation 22:16 Praise Jesus Paul

Thank you, Shiloh, and my blessing to you also. But all your focus has turned to me, and attacking my person, and casting doubt upon my salvation, which is not the topic here. My opinion the scripture is saying there will be a restored children of God in the future, keeping all the commandments as God commanded, but not after a carnal interpretation. They will keep the commandments by their faith from Jesus. And the Holy Ghost will be showing them how. Jesus is the Lord our God Praise Him Paul That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:4-6

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1

Thank you, Shiloh. Whether saved or not, I shall continue to strive to be righteous for my Lord. I believe all men aught to seek God's righteousness. For the righteous LORD loves righteousness; His countenance doth behold the upright. Psalm 11:7 Seek the kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33 In that passage, St Paul does mention judging our brethren, and he also mentions about us judging angels, and judging the world, none of which is ever done in secular courts. In that passage St Paul is speaking to our shame, which is our inability or unwillingness to judge. And I also showed a verse from the Psalms that you might see what St Paul is speaking about. And now I will show you the commandments that St Paul is speaking about. Ye shall do My judgments, and keep Mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 18:4 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Leviticus 19:15 Oh, so you are not judging me? that I need to pay attention to context that I am miss applying scripture that I am not saved etc Or you don't think what I say is controversial? My Bible tells me that Jesus is the word, the Son of God, and that He is the light which is the life of men. For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: Proverbs 6:23 Jesus is also our Lord, King, Prince, and Shepherd, and He shall feed us. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20 Maybe it is different in Australia, Shiloh. But I went to nearly all the Churches, at one time or another, and regardless of the denomination, they invariably called on newcomers to come forth and offer up their life to Jesus. Yes we get that gospel in our ear too. But the first we are told to do is to make the ram offering. (Only we are not told that is a ram offering.) Here it is. And when any will offer a meat offering unto the LORD, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon: and he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests: and he shall take thereout his handful of the flour thereof, and of the oil thereof, with all the frankincense thereof; and the priest shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD: and the remnant of the meat offering shall be Aaron's and his sons': it is a thing most holy of the offerings of the LORD made by fire. Leviticus 2:1-3 I know, you probably don't consider yourself a son of Aaron, or a priest, but if you truly are saved, then Jesus did you make you a priest to God, when He washed you in His blood. I believe we really aught to be keeping His sayings. That's what you tell me. So what do you call your witnessing? Don't you hope some of your words will lodge in me, and I get saved because of you? I believe Jesus is the Lord our God and that He gave His commandment for all the children of God, whom He calls Israel. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against Me. The ox knows his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, My people doth not consider. Isaiah 1:2-3 You were saying if you sin after you are saved, you stand forgiven. Peter is saying if we turn from the law that is given to us, and so return to sinning, our end will be worse than if we never got saved. I noticed. Like you said you know Jesus meant "shall be saved from sin" when Jesus said "shall be saved". You got that from true life experience, I suppose. ...their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. Matthew 13:15-16 But I have absolute faith in all of God's word, not just in His Son's sacrifice, because I have faith in God. And He said, I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith. Deuteronomy 32:20 I am bold in judgment. You mistake it for pride. I believe, blessed are they that please the Lord. If we do not please Him, we shall not be saved. You know that He will say to many, "you never knew Me". I be zealous therefore, and repent daily. I meditate in the law daily, as per His commandment. The knowledge of the commandments of the Lord is the doctrine of life: and they that do things that please Him shall receive the fruit of the tree of immortality. Ecclesiasticus 19:19 I know, you think all my bullocks are bull. What matters to me is that God's word confirms me. I quoted His words. The only thing I changed was the color of the font. So really, Jesus was not close to what you are saying, because He forgot say "from sin" when He said saved, and He forgot to offer a full explanation like you gave, on the difference between 'being saved' and 'being saved from sin'. That verse does include me. I picked up my cross and follow Him. No, it is absurd to me because I cannot believe that God ever asked men to needlessly kill animals. And this is confirmed in me by the Spirit, because I brought it to Him. And though all men believe that their gracious God once gave a carnal commandment, I shall not follow after them, but after the Spirit. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 14:37 You say no to them, every time. You stomp your foot and say I am wrong, but I can read. And I am able ask to Jesus these things also. Do you? Does He tell you what He commanded unto the Israelites? And I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. Exodus 25:22 I have shown you things in the word that you have never heard before. And maybe I did mishandle the word, but you didn't handle it at all. I am willing to sacrifice myself for Him. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for My sake shall find it. Matthew 16:25 Bless Jesus Paul O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which kill the prophets, and stone them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Luke 13:34

Hi Dennis, I see it as the change over from living for our self to living for Jesus' sake. Some verses which I think are related to that saying. He that loves his life shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. John 12:25 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me. Galatians 2:20 And they overcame him [the devil] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Revelation 12:11 Praise Jesus Paul

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 1 Corinthians 6:2-5 You wonder why I question men's assurance. And back to the verses under question in this topic, we had. And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to My judgments: and they shall keep My laws and My statutes in all Mine assemblies; and they shall hallow My sabbaths. Ezekiel 44:24 Ezekiel is describing what we are doing here, isn't he? Hallowing His sabbaths Paul Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Psalm 2:10

Thank you, Shiloh. A graven image? Jesus is so much more than a sacrificial lamb, or bullock, to me. And the commandment is to offer our self up. We tell people, who want to be saved, they must offer themself to Jesus. Isn't it? No. The law also instructs us to bring our oblations to the brethren. Whether we are right or wrong, because if we are wrong, we will receive correction. These days it is mostly called witnessing. Not a sacrifice. A living sacrifice. I guess we could say, animal sacrifice is a death sacrifice. Another reason why I cannot believe that Lord Jesus Christ ever commanded any men to sacrifice animals. Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. Hebrews 7:16 That's why I put that verse. We were talking about the apostate too. I cannot deny my ears and eyes. So many who claim that assurance evidently don't have much idea of what Jesus says. I guess I have to be saved from sin to know what Jesus is saying then, if what He says isn't even close to what He is saying. Jesus says who He is speaking to. "ye which have followed Me" That is you, isn't it? I worded that in such a manner as to show how absurd the theory is. That you agreed with it shows me that I am hearing you. I quoted those scriptures. Numerous times you have said I am wrong, and those verses don't say what they say. Just like Jesus was not even close to what He was saying, when He said the saved are those that endure unto the end. And it is me who is the grotesque perverter? I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. John 10:11 And here is the commandment to purge. Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eats that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Exodus 12:19 Yes, I did offer up the verses where Jesus speaks of us as His sheep. Was I wrong to "throw" them up? You don't see that that could have any connection at all with God commanding men to make ram offerings? Praise Jesus Paul So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, do you love Me more than these? He saith unto Him, Yea, Lord; You know that I love You. He saith unto him, Feed My lambs. John 21:15

Jesus is to many as the poor lamb was to the Jew who sacrificed it to God. But [my understanding is] Jesus is our Saviour, not our sacrifice. He is our Shepherd, not our lamb. He is God's lamb, He is not our lamb. Yes, He sacrificed Himself for us, but we are supposed to be His lambs. Isn't it? And if we are a lamb, then we can offer up a lamb. Paul I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. And when He puts forth His own sheep, He goes before them, and the sheep follow Him: for they know His voice. John 10:11 & 4

Thank you, Shiloh. And that is true. But he spoke sensibly his confirmation, and you have yet to offer up a sound correction. After reading Jeremiah and David I returned to have another look at the law, and could see see no reason why those commandments can't be interpreted to mean we offer our self up, as a bullock, or as a lamb. And when I got to Deuteronomy 12. there we are told it has to be beast from the herd and flock we already have from God. There are also many other references to our cattle, not in regards to sacrificing them. The Lord will feed them. So then I looked to my herd and flocks, that I have from Him. Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 Thank you. Trespass is sin, and the memorial of all offerings are to be burnt. And I want to say thank you. You did help me to have a revelation about the meaning of burning the memorial upon His altar. That's why we make offerings, because bit by bit it helps us to understand, and we burn these understanding in our memory, never to be forgotten. So you don't pray to God? I think you probably do, but just don't see your prayer as being your sacrifice unto Him. If we go on to sin again, it will be worse for us than if we hadn't known His righteousness. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Peter 2:21 I haven't endured unto the end yet. I guess that is why I am not saved. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13 If Jesus has cast out your devils by the Spirit of God, then no doubt the kingdom of heaven is come upon you. I trust all Jesus' sayings, even those that He gave by the hand of Moses. I got faith in God. And none of God's word is muck and mire to me. Not any more. Thy word is very pure: therefore Thy servant loves it. Psalm 119:140 This is where Jesus speaks of that time, isn't it? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28 And in modern times, some are remembering a restored Israel in a future time, who will be sacrificing animals again, in memory of Jesus' death on the cross. We can just go back over this thread and view the remains of our burnt offerings. Of course, they are bullocks which we offered up to brethren (we brought them to the sons of Aaron). They are not necessarily the bullocks we have brought unto the Lord. Even so, these are our oblations. Regurgitate lingo? He who has God's word, let Him speak the word faithfully. Praise Jesus Paul The priests shall not eat of any thing that is dead of itself, or torn, whether it be fowl or beast. Ezekiel 44:31

Thank you, n2thelight. I'm glad someone else sees my point. I think those passages in the prophets are speaking of the resurrection in Jesus. We are supposed to be the restored children of God, keeping the law through faith in Christ, and not as a carnal commandment. Thank you, Shiloh. God's law contains three types of sacrifices. Sin offerings, peace offerings, and thanksgiving offerings. Their names already tell us their purpose. We are praying to ask God for forgiveness, and atone us for our sins, or we are making our peace with God, or we are thanking Him for all His blessing, and for life. And the priest shall burn the memorial of it (Lev 2:2) the priest shall take from the meat offering a memorial thereof, and shall burn it upon the altar (Lev 2:9) I believe, that even in the Old Testament times, if God forgave you, you were forgiven. And that if we sin today, we are back to square one, as you put it. It still applies, if we transgress one point in the law, we transgress it all. After all, how could I or anyone not be saved, if no one can anymore sin? Or if our sins aren't counted against us anymore. Whatever it is you are trying to say. So, while the restored children of God of the future are watching their priest slit the throats of animals, it will cause them to remember Jesus hanging on the cross? The bleating sheep or goat will be pointing back to Jesus? But remembering Jesus died for them on the cross will not atone them for their sins? But in the olden days, the Jews were being reminded of the future, and of their Messiah slain. Since it is harder to remember the future, is that why God's atonement was only temporary back then? I mean. can you tell us how an animal sacrifice points? Or serves as a means of worship? I don't believe Jesus was just our sacrificial beast. I believe He is our Lord and Saviour. He is whom we must pray to. His altar is where we are supposed to bring our broken spirits. But I am not saved, so what would I know? Even so, I praise His glorious name Paul And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to My judgments: and they shall keep My laws and My statutes in all Mine assemblies; and they shall hallow My sabbaths. Ezekiel 44:24 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12 'Scuse all the questions, but Angels said I should ask questions. And whoso asks receives.

Thank you, Shiloh, but I have listened, and all you have said is, I was wrong, and not saved. Okay, I should give up trying to understand then, and wait for the grace of God to save me. I did read the passages, Shiloh. Maybe you think I didn't read this thread, or the scripture. "every one that keeps the sabbath from polluting it, and takes hold of My covenant;" Isa 56:6 "the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD." Ez 43:27 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray... ...they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of a priest unto Me..." Ez 44:10 & 13 But Jesus drove the sheep and the oxen away (Jn 2:15), so they got away that day. I may not be as "saved" as you, but I do have a reasonable command of the English language. Jeremiah does say the Lord didn't speak about animals sacrifices in Moses' day. And David does say the Lord won't take our bullocks, or the goats in our folds, and that the sacrifices of God are a broken spirit. I appreciate you wanting me to be saved and all, but for me this is an important matter to be clear about. Our salvation may even depend upon us getting this right. If you do know how to handle the scripture, then maybe you are the person to teach me. So far, you have only said nay, to the scriptures I've shown. Even so, praise Jesus. Paul Thou hast not brought Me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neither hast thou honoured Me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve with an offering, nor wearied thee with incense. Isaiah 43:23

Thank you, Steven. Maybe you can explain the verses in Psalms 50 & 51, and Jeremiah 7, which I presented. I have only presented things I found in God's word. And maybe you all are blessed to have more Holy Spirit than me. Then you should be able to explain, and answer my questions. I would like to be as blessed as you all say you are. That's why I am trying to understand the restoration being spoken of here. Believe me, I was as surprised as you guys are, when I read Jeremiah's saying. I also believed the law was full of commandments about animal sacrifices. Men never say any different. But I didn't ignore it. I brought that verse unto the Lord, to inquire of Him. And He killed a bullock in me, that caused my belief that the law is a carnal commandment. His response to me was short and simple, He said, Cast out your devils. I'm still working on it, in fear and with trembling. Come Lord Jesus Paul And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there arises another priest, who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. Hebrews 7:15-16

Thank you, Shiloh. Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord. Would it not have been easier to say? They did not say God never commanded animal sacrifices, what those verses actually mean is.... and put what the believers that do have the Holy Spirit think those verses are saying. As it is, you got me thinking, I have to get saved so I can ignore also those verses. So, some who believe Christ will become Levites, and the rest shall call them the restored Israel? I didn't reject or disagree with your reason, I asked you why Jesus also released the animals. You said they were required that very day, in order to fulfil the law. And we agree that Jesus kept the law. I am saying, that animal sacrifice was going on in God's house of prayer was another reason why Jesus was incensed. Prayer is a spiritual sacrifice (Ps 51:17, 1 Pet 2:5). It is not an animal sacrifice. And you are saved, so have a complete grasp of all things in God's word, so I guess that is why you don't have the need to go on to be a restored Levite. And I wonder, what will you say to those restored Levites, when you meet them. According to you I am not saved, so I may well be wrong, and correct me if I am, but I believe Jesus is the resurrection. Israel (God's children) went off on a carnal tangent, sacrifices animals instead of devils, and tithing material wealth instead of knowledge of God, and then God sent Jesus, that men might believe Him, and not perish but have everlasting life. Now I see the children of God that are calling themself saved are looking forward to a restored children of God in the future, who will be Levite priests. Wasn't salvation your restoration? I love Jesus Paul And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father; to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:6

Thank you, John. Yes I have. I offered the verse up for I know it works from experience. Thank you. I pray He casts them out and off of me. Hatred stirs up strifes: but love covers all sins. Proverbs 10:12 I believe true love will. But I always bear this verse in mind too. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. Revelation 22:15 Praise Jesus Paul

Bless you, Angels. I had a couple of questions on topic, like why do David and Jeremiah, in the Old Testament, say God never commanded us to sacrifice animals? And I asked if Shiloh (or anyone) believes those Levites in the millennial restored Israel will be following Christ? I also asked why Jesus also dove away the sacrificial animals, if they were required for the passover? when He drove the money changers away. Why would you ignore speaking to my questions, and ask me for my personal interpretations of scriptures on an unrelated topic? I offered those for Shiloh's remembrance. ~~` I am not disagreeing with what is being said here (beside not interpreting animal sacrifice literally). What I'm trying to get my head around is, first a failed Israel, then the followers of Jesus, the Christians, then a restored Israel. Will Jesus give them a different set of instructions? or is the restored Israel a bad thing, a wandering away from Christ, a return to the law? Bless Jesus Paul