listener24

9 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

And you are just one more the Lord has sent to this place... I just wish you stay with us for as long as possible.

 

I hope to be one, and I hope that the ones sent by the Lord stay as long as possible too! 

God bless you!

28 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Great to hear that. I agree & over time you will get to know some very precious people, bros & sis, in the Lord.

all the best, Marilyn.

BTW I do like `listener` something we should all do more often.

 

Thank you Marylin, I'm sure about it!

And thanks for the appreciation of the nickname, listening it's indeed something good to do for ourselves and the people around us. We can have disagreements on many opinions, but it'd be good at least to demonstrate to understand the other points of view

 

13 hours ago, MyLordsServant said:

Everyone has their place.

Exactly, of course as Christians we want to take part to prophecies by standings on the Good side.

We want to be the ones about whom it is written:

"And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"

And we want to be among the ones that make this happen:

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

40 minutes ago, SisterActs2 said:

The Holy Spirit teaches me things, like how to serve my Master better.  That's why I pray.  I get to know Him, more each day, by asking Him to help not just me and those close to me, but others.  He answers, and in the words of Dallas Holm, sometimes He says yes, sometimes He says no, and sometimes He says "wait a while".  I don't try to analyse it; I just do it because He tells me to, and I love it.

Dear SisterActs2,

first off, what a beautiful testimony

secondly, as you pointed out there are many reasons for praying, and one is about communicating and relating us to God.
And only if we remain in Him, and His Word remains in us, we could desire something according to His will.

Thirdly, as you mention, there are prayers that are not just for us, but also for our brothers. For instance, the Lord's prayer is never about "I", always about "us".

Finally, let's recap that there are many aspects of prayer: communicating, aligning with God's will, etc. In this thread, the focus is on one particular aspect, but this doesn't mean that the other aspects are less important, it's just that for a matter of synthesis we cannot treat every aspect of the prayer in a single thread.

God bless
 

Do we think that prayers have only a "spiritual" effect on us and our convictions, OR are they are sometimes also practically fulfilled by the Father?

Someone say that since the Father have decided everything from the beginning of the time, our prayers have no effect on the events that will happen. 

I don't think that this position is very Scriptural since seems like God always wanted us to cooperate to His Salvation Plan, but I'm curious to hear both sides on this opinion.

 

In defense to the idea that our prayer may have influence even though God has set things by knowing the future, I propose this simple reasoning.

Imagine 2 possible timelines of the future, one in which a person (let's call her Martha) prays, and another in which she doesn't pray. And let's imagine that the prayer is about getting the courage to testify the Lord in a hostile country.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

TIMELINE 1

Event A: Martha prays for courage

Event B: The Lord, by knowing Martha's prayer and by considering the prayer according to His will, gives her the courage

Event C: Martha goes in a hostile country to testify the Lord

 

TIMELINE 2

Event A-2: Martha doesn't pray for courage

Event B-2: The Lord doesn't force the gift of courage upon Martha, by respecting her free will

Event C-2: Martha stays at home

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, the Lord knows the future. He knows from the very beginning if Martha will choose event A or event A-2  (and let's say that she decides A), so he knows that He will send her courage. But this doesn't mean that Martha's prayer wasn't important, indeed it was fundamental!

Thus, even though God knows the future, our prayers may have a practical effect.

What do you think about it?

 

PS this topic came out a lot in this thread too, with a related question:

 

Beautiful video, full of Scriptures!

Thanks for sharing.

Maranatha.

5 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Well.You go ahead with your plans of the unprecedented event.I'll just wait on the Lord and watch the prophecies of the time of the end take place in their order.

1

Yes brother...these are points in which I guess it's normal that there is disagreement, and it's useful to consider the various point of views and the various Scriptures. Hoping to come closer to the Truth together.

God bless you 

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Doesn't matter if you try.The time of the end is an appointed time.

Try to look at it this way.This verse takes place at the time of the end.

http://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm

Even if it's redundant to treat again the basilar different, complementary concepts of 1) God knowing and predicting the future,  and 2) the way He took His decision by taking into account the elect's action too, I'll consider the possibility that I wasn't clear with the explanations above and I'll try last time.

(if you google "hastening the return of Jesus" you'll find the same logical (and scriptural) explanations that me and other users have written here above) 

Since you talk about the future, I hope you have familiarity with logical reasoning.

Premise: God created men with free will.

Now, imagine 2 possible different timelines in the history of the world.

TIMELINE 1 - what is predicted (the events are in order): 

Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

Event B:  His disciples START to spread the Gospel in the whole world 

Event C: His disciples prepare the bride (the Spiritual Church) by ardently desire the return of the Bridegroom, the Lord

Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

Event G: The Gospel is finally spread all over the world, and all over the elects cry and shout to the Lord (Luke 18:1-8) for His return

Event H: The Lord has set the time of the End here (from the very beginning), by knowing that B, C and G would have happened and by taking into account them too. 

Event I: Something else that may have happened if the Lord didn't cut short the days, but will never happen because the Lord knew that B, C and G will happen before.

Now the Lord, by knowing this timeline, have told us some things that will happen in the last days, like D, E and F that you can find forecasted in the Bible. It doesn't mean that when fixing H, he didn't take into account B, C and G, on the contrary, he gave importance to His people in cooperating in His salvation plan, and to their actions and prayers, and decided H by taking into account them too!

Now imagine another timeline (that luckily will not happen, because the Lord has predicted that the Timeline 1 will happen)

TIMELINE 2 - what could have happened if nobody cared about the Gospel (the events are in order): 

Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

Event B:  Nobody care

Event C: The few that care, think that they'd be better off to hope the Lord to return very late

Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

Event G: The Gospel is still almost unknown

Event H: The Lord could have set the time here if his Bride should have cooperated, but since nobody cared and nobody wanted His return, He delayed His return. So nothing happens here

Event I: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

Event J: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

Event K: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen (etc.)

[...]

Event V: FInally someone wake up, understand the Good News of the Kingdom, spread it and pray "Come"

Event Z: The Lord by knowing the timeline, has set the date here (from the very beginning).

In timeline 2, More events happen, so more events would have been predicted if it was what the Lord forecasted. But luckily, we are in timeline 1, because from the beginning people started to spread the Gospel; by taking a quick look on Google by typing "Hastening the return of Jesus", looks like there are many pastors from different denominations (and non-denominational) who understood the Lord's prayer Peter and Revelation, and are teaching to hastening the Return.

You can find in one of those articles the same explanation as above, but I invested my time to make the schema for you in case it wasn't clear with just words, so now I'm 100% sure that it's impossible not to understand that simple, commonly accepted theological concept (that everyone take for granted with respect to all other prayers, like the prayer to send workers into the field).

 

The difference between timeline 1 and timeline 2 is made by the free will of men. And for God, men's free will is sacred, He respects it. He doesn't joke with us when he teach us the importance of the prayers, and when He puts a prayer such Maranatha at the very end of His book.

I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of someone trying to stop this prayer, but I'm having hard time understanding. I don't know what someone gains in trying to block this prayer. If the prayer is wrong, blocking it would have no effect anyway, so there would be nothing to gain.

If the prayer is correct, how sad someone will feel to have tried to block it, to discourage his siblings to make an action for hastening the Return of the Lord (that some elects will realize anyway), thus delaying it. 

But there is an actual positive outcome from those trying to block it, and it is that thanks to their counterarguments, each point can be presented with more details. So I thank them for that

----------------------------------------------

Finally, watching and asking are actions that don't exclude each other. They are both in the Gospel. We can watch for the signs, and asking at the same time.

Indeed, we have to do many actions at the same time: watch, ask, preach, help, etc.

There is absolutely no point in quoting an action that is written somewhere, to exclude another that is written somewhere else.

 

God bless you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Btw,

I just realized that by typing "hastening the return of Jesus" on Google there appear several articles by different Christian pastors, that confirm that is a Biblical intention.

But even if it's Biblical, the question seems to be: "do we really want it?"

9 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Everyone here is tempted and as children make mistakes and learn from those mistakes,we all do.

There was a time when i wanted to be removed from this world,but I found that was not what Jesus wanted or he would have asked God to have taken his disciples from,this world.Insted Jesus prayed that God would keep us from the evil of the world.

Since those days ,i have learned much about the evil in the world.I've spent time studying such evils as the Quran and hadith just so I could better understand why the ten horns fight against the lamb.I've learned about those who are antichrist and their beliefs.I've even,learned about Donald trump and how so many"Christians"place their faith in him to keep them safe.The world is full of evil but still God is able to keep those who follow Christ from evil.

Everyday since those days when i no longer wanted to be in this world was another day I could learn something new .

It is great to have the attitude to always learn something, while in this world.

It is the best way to live, and I'm glad that you are living this way, I also try to.

However, I think that you agree with me that Jesus will teach us infinitely other things when we'll be with Him. Because otherwise, people with shorter lives than ours, would be penalized, and I don't think is the case.

Therefore, I think that if the Lord should come fast, we won't lose our chances to learn, we'll have the awesome chance to learn directly from Him in His glorious Kingdom. While we are in this world, however, we still shouldn't waste time but be learning every day, as you mentioned, but without deluding ourselves that what we are learning could never be learned in the Kingdom, otherwise those poor <6-year-olds persons died at very early ages, would be condemned to remain "ignorant" forever. But I think that in the Kingdom, there will be room to learn for them.

Then, of course, about His disciples, the Lord doesn't ask to take them out of the world, because if He had taken out the 12 at that time, or the few early Christians, nobody would have been left to testify Him and spread the Gospel in the whole world. But now that the Gospel is being spread in the whole world, if God should rapture His elects, everyone would understand what happened, the testimony would be available to everyone, there are even movies about it.

@Retrobyter

Q:"Just to be clear, do you mean "Jesus' Return will be an event when He collects us," or do you mean "Jesus' Return will be an all-inclusive event?"

A:"Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left."

 

9 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Do you believe God can,keep you from evil without taking you out of the world?

http://biblehub.com/john/17-15.htm

Jesus asked God to keep his disciples away from evil,not to take them away from the world.Personally I believe God can do that.

Why do you think God has to take you out of he world in order to deliver you from evil as you said on 3:2?

 

And ps,no one here is trying to delay Jesus coming.Your the one wanting everyone to pray for him to hurry up and come deliver you from evil.No one is praying for Jesus to delay his coming and no one has asked anyone to do such a thing

6

I believe in the power of the Spirit to keep us from evil if we allow Him, but I also believe that while in this world, we are still subject to temptations. Even the apostles were, until the end of their earthly lives, and I don't claim to be better.

Can anyone claim not to be subject to temptations? I don't. 

Furthermore, can anyone claim that he is living a life free from evil? Is anyone literally following all Jesus commandments, like "And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.". I haven't met any who is obeying 100% all these commands.

We are all sinners, in my opinion, and to a certain degree, we still commit sins in this world, even after the Spirit calls us. This because we are still in this world full of temptations, and the temptations come from the evil one who is still here. 

My life changed completely after meeting Christ, nonetheless, I'm still a sinner to a degree, I don't claim that I'm following perfectly everything in the Gospel, even if I'm trying hard to do it, by asking the Lord to guide me with His Spirit. 

One day, instead, we'll never any more "be led into temptations", because we'll be separated forever from the evil one, and that will be the complete delivery.

Last, I'm not asking for "me", because the Lord's prayer is plural. I'm asking for us, as the prayer says, because Jesus' Return will be a collective event. 

 

@Yowm @MyLordsServant @shiloh357 @Sojourner414 @frienduff thaylorde @angels4u @Retrobyter @Psalms37:4

Dears,

I'm so glad to see that different positions are being debated, there is nothing better than a friendly, Christian confrontation on the Scriptures. 

I think that we can summarize the different positions expressed so far:

Position 1) God has already decided everything, we have no influence on His plan.

Position 2) Agreement with what's expressed in this topic starter, i.e. that we have 2 missions, spreading the Gospel to all nation, and pray the Lord for His return, and both actions will hasten His return.

Position 3) A lot of bad things will happen in the Lord's day, so it'd be better off if He comes as late as possible.

This more or less wraps up everything discussed above, even though it misses some nuances, and if you have additions they are welcome.

 

Now, here are few questions I have about Position 1) and 3).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About Position 1) (God has already decided everything, we have no influence on His plan):

1.1)  First, let's not confuse a little, lapalissian thing: God knowing the future doesn't mean that people living in the future have no free will or influence. If I know that it will rain, therefore I'll decide to set the day of my picnic to a day in which doesn't rain. But this doesn't mean that the event of raining had no influence on my choice, indeed it had a GREAT influence: I moved the date according to what I forecasted. So if someone would ask: "did you already decide the date (of your picnic)?" I would reply "Yes". And if they ask "did your information about the future (in this case the weather) have any influence on your choice?" I'll reply "Of course, I set my date by considering these information too". Same we can think for the Lord with respect to our prayers and actions because He respects our free will.

1.2) So many verses in the Bible seem to suggest the importance that the Lord has put upon us, to cooperate in His salvation plan. And part of this cooperation is expressed via prayers and intention through the Bible. The Lord is even saddened by our missing cooperation:

“Yet you have not called on me, Jacob,
    you have not wearied yourselves for^[a] me, Israel.

1.3) Are you sure that you would have applied the same reasoning of Position 1), if there would be discussed here another prayer? For instance, say that the prayer was for (Luke 10:2) “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.". If the thread was "Let's pray the Lord to send out workers",

would you have ever replied "No, that's a useless prayer, the Lord has decided everything, so he has decided how many workers to send, how dare you to ask these things to the Lord?" I don't think you would have replied this, but clarify me if I'm wrong. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now about  Position 3) (A lot of bad things will happen in the Lord's day, so it'd be better off if He comes as late as possible.)

3.1) First of, there are more different interpretations of the events before the Last day, than there are Churches existing, I guess. And frankly, I don't claim to know the right interpreation. Are we really sure that we want to discard the desire and intention of the Return of Jesus -desire shared by the first Christians - based on one of these? 

3.2) Regardless the many different positions about the events before the Last day, one thing I know: the end result will be the delivery from evil of all the Christians, and us taking our places "at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven." What a wonderful day!

It's for hastening this Day, the prayer and spreading the Gospel discussed into this topic.

3.3) How sad is it for Christian, to see at the last day as something bad, to wish his delay? First Christians were living in the hope to be alive when that happened. What happened to us since then? 

3.4) I think that you agree that righteous people who lived before Christ, or where His Word was not spread, and who in their life have searched the Truth, will be likely saved in the Last Day. The Lord will show them their faces. Remember this, before arguing that the Last day is bad because someone won't be saved, and remember that by spreading the Gospel in the world we are still hastening the day, because "this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." So why the intention in the prayer should be bad, if we are moving toward it with our actions too?

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Last, a clarification once and for all: we are asking God to satisfy this intention, if it's in accordance to His Will. This should be true for any prayer. This is contained in the Lord's prayer that we are discussin in this thread, that in addition to "Your Kingdom come", and "deliver us from evil", says "Your Will be done". 

So it’s a win-win: if the prayer is useful, and according to God's will, how happy we will be..if it’s not, not a big deal, it would have still been useful to pray this, at least to increase our desire to see the Lord in all His fullness instead of wishing His delay as someone does.

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6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

20 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

How are you using the word "hasten?"

I'd like to share my opinion on this too, eager to listen MyLordsServant's one.

In my opinion, in the same way by which people usually hope to be satisfied by making any other prayers.

For instance, a guy could need some courage to testify the Lord. He knows that maybe one day he will get it, or the Lord will give Him, but he wants it as soon as possible, in order to be able to testify the Lord's glory to unbelievers.

It is a good prayer, so he asks the Lord to shorten the time before he receives this gift. He doesn't want it "one day", he wants it as soon as possible, if that is in accordance to God's will too of course.

God, before the prayer, wasn't forcing the courage upon this guy, even though He wanted to give him His gifts. After the prayer, God is more than happy to share this gift, if He thinks there are no other side effects.

---------------------------------

So you can imagine this timeline, in God's decision about the day. 

By looking at the future, he has seen some of His elects crying and shouting Him to be delivered from evil.

He then considered other things that are mysterious to us, in addition to these prayers, to set the right date.

He did this by forecasting the future, and He forecasted the prayers of the elects and gave importance to them.

He also forecasted as MyLordsServant said, that his elects would have spread this Gospel all over the world, and for some mysterious reasons, He wanted to make His decision by taking this into account too.

So the times are shortened, with respect to a timeline in which there are NO prayers, or no people spreading the Gospel.

Imagine the same timeline, but in which not only nobody is asking the Lord to return, but some of them called "Christians" secretly hope that He will never come. In this timeline, God has a reason less to shorten the time, when He set the date.

 

Luckily, seems like in our timeline there are people eager to see the Lord and who are asking this prayer, that in other words is the Lord's prayer.

I've been told that ancient Christians were making this prayer, then for some mysterious reasons, we got rid of such beautiful thing. Maybe we can get it back.

 

I would like to really thank @shiloh357 for raising his points, that lead to the amazing clarifications by @Yowm and @MyLordsServant. I'd also say that this last explanation from MyLordsServant is incredibly well-written, I agree with every word. Thanks, all brothers and sisters for this very interesting exchange

18 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

silly notion that we can change His mind on the matter

Dear shiloh357,

I've never mentioned ever the silly notion that we should "change" God's mind, and forcing Him to do something against His will. That would be a silly belief indeed, and you are right to remind us not to make that mistake!

Instead, I'm saying that IF IT IS IN HIS WILL that our prayer have any effect, then He will happily receive them and satisfy them. And let's not mess up again with simple reasoning future-based. God knowing the future, of course, doesn't make the present less relevant. For a simple, naive example, that you know for sure, the fact that the Lord knows that someone will refuse Him, doesn't mean that the evil guy's decision doesn't have any influence because it's only in Lord's hands. No, it is that guy who chooses that, then of course, it is in God's will to respect his choice. The fact that God knows the future, doesn't mean that we have no choice, nor that our actions have no meaning or influence in God's Salvation Plan.

MyLordServant has already thoroughly discussed this point above, in a very sharp way in my opinion. 

 

"Your Kingdom Come, 

Your Will be Done"

Maranatha.

On 11/25/2017 at 11:46 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

Of coarse he knows the prayers of the saints and have taken them,into account.He told us already.

This is amazing Shilohsfoal, we have surprisingly arrived to the same conclusion through this open dialogue. This is exactly what I'm talking about: God who considers His sons' prayers, into His plans of salvation. The fact that by knowing the future He knows that He will already take into account them, doesn't exempt people living in the present for actively praying and cooperate, nor make them useless.

 

@MyLordServant, what an answer!

On 11/25/2017 at 2:11 PM, MyLordsServant said:

People like to disassociate themselves with God's plan. As if they're something separate, yet indeed we are a single organism. WE are the history, present and future of this earth. God appointed a time, which we fulfill. 

2

I think that this is a common message throughout the Scriptures too, and only some verse out of context could deny it. 

On 11/25/2017 at 2:11 PM, MyLordsServant said:

When God says he has an appointed time, it means he knows when the time will be, that WE have fulfilled our mission. 

It does NOT mean, we sit back and wait for God to do the work. When Jesus says to HASTEN the coming. He means...TO Hasten, THE Coming. We are the spiritual catalyst in Gods plan. Meaning, WE ARE Gods plan. If we did NOT preach the gospel, we are not fulfilling Gods will. 

Exactly my point: and I think that our mission may be articulated in exactly the 2 points that you mention: spreading the Gospel, and praying with the right intention. (Because both things are incredibly stressed in the Gospels). And it is stressed that is not enough to pray by wasting words, but the right intention is what's very powerful. If you think about it, these things are complementary: to the more people is preached the Gospel, the more people can ask with a sincere heart the Lord to hasten his Fulfillment.

On 11/25/2017 at 2:11 PM, MyLordsServant said:

If it includes the rapture, I don't know. But when the end comes, it could be the end of Gospel preaching

Exactly, as I discuss in a point above, I don't mind if people believe in pre/post/past/pluri/anti tribulation. What matters is the intention to see the Lord soon, to ask Him: Come! So every Christian could potentially pray this, this could be a unifying desire. And this leads to your last point:

On 11/25/2017 at 2:11 PM, MyLordsServant said:

If you mean, to make aware to all churches, the mission of preaching to all nations. Yes, I agree. From the time Jesus was born, to the time he ascended, and until now. There has been ONE MISSION: Preach THE Gospel. 

Christianity is NOT, going to church once a week, preaching to the same people over and over. This is a false doctrine created by mans religion. Again, Jesus had one soul mission for us: To Preach THE Gospel.

 

I discuss this in point 1: it's not necessary to create "new" Churches. Because the real Church is the union of all the seekers of Truth, in the name of Jesus Christ, and who are subdued to Him only as a Master. So, this intention is so powerful because it can be spread to several Churches (except the so-called ones that hate the Return of the King)

And as you mentioned, these are 2 very important points in the Gospel: prayer, and preaching. 

If you think about it, what greater "testimony to all the people" would be than Christian all over the world asking for their savior to deliver them, once and for all, from evil? 

20 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Your not sure God has set a day to send Jesus to gather together his elect?

 

I'm definitely sure of that, sorry if I didn't express myself correctly. (This is also covered in my point "avoid misconceptions" in this thread starter)

What I'm not sure of is if, in setting that day, He has also taken into account the prayers of His elects, because He knew the future, included the prayers we would have done, and the way we would have spread the Gospel.

2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Why don't you let God finish his work instead of asking him to cut it short?He has set a time for everything.A time to plant and a time to harvest.Your not going to change his seasons.

Because I'm not sure if He who knows the future, has decided the day also taking into account the prayers of his chosen. So our prayers in the present are part of the plan that He prepared from the beginning, as well as our sharing of the Gospel all over the world.

 

Moreover, even in the case this prayer wasn't effective, I don't think that spiritually is a bad thing to desire. A Church looking forward to the Return of the Lord, has less risk of being attached to the worldly desires, and is more likely to live for the sole purpose of helping people and spreading the Gospel. This because from personal experience I've met so many Christians so attached to the flesh, that they wish the Lord should come as late as possible (like in Luke 19:14). What is more likely to cause such state of mind, a prayer for one's own personal finance, or a prayer for the Church to meet the Lord soon?

In the worst case, if it's really not effective, is just a prayer to be prepared in every moment (Matthew 25:13) so it has this part of goodness.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I asked for God and I received God

I'm happy for you, and I received Him too, and can never forget the moment my life changed.

I already rejoice in Him and his Word every day.

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Agree.

• Looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God.  2 Peter 3:12

This is more of an expression of desire (Looking for and longing for . . .).  The timing is fixed by God's own authority. Acts 1:7

 

However, at worse, I share this same desire of Peter, if it's only a desire as Last Daze said. I don't think I've nothing to lose from that. While, at best...you do the math.

 

20 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Instead of only thinking of yourself and what you want and when you want it

Hi brother, thanks for your reply. Actually, I was thinking about Christians persecuted all over the world, when really wishing the Rapture to happen soon, it wasn't only a selfish consideration.  

Though, I admit that the personal desire to be with the Lord as soon as possible plays a role too. I hope I'll be forgiven for this desire, though I can imagine worse "sins" than this

Peace. Maranatha.

1 hour ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Because every second we dedicate to our flesh is a second lost, a second we will not want to remember. And every second we spent with the Lord is a second well spent, that we all will want to remember; and will be attached to eternity.

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me." - John 10:27

 

Beautifully said, 3LdKHVCzRDj2

 

To all the brothers who answered that everything has been decided by God (true) regardless our prayers (I doubt about this), I have just a simple question: why this should be true only for this prayer that seems so ugly to you, and not for any other of your prayers? Didn't the Lord decide all the other things you are asking for too?

So following this logic, shouldn't we discard half of the Gospel, who preach about the importance of asking and of the prayers? As well as the Lord's prayer. And any other prayer.

And in case you want to bring the hypothesis that prayers are more for us spiritually than for an effective result, of course, one point of the prayer is for us to align to God's will, but it's not the only point: "ask AND you will receive, seek AND you will find, knock AND it will be opened to you" are famous words from the Gospel.

Thank you very much for your attention! 

 

"And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words."

"knock and the door will be opened to you."

Imagine this unprecedented event.
Christians, from all over the world, 
united physically in congregations,
united virtually through technology,
united spiritually in the Holy Ghost,
praying together with a clear, unified intention: shortening, hastening the Return of the Lord (2 Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:17,
Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:5-13, Luke 18:1-8)
Wouldn’t the Lord be quick, in fulfilling their holy prayer?

“[…] And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 
And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting 
them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. 
However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

This is not happening yet, but we can make it happen.

SUMMARY (You can freely download the pdf)

1 - Brief history of the Church
2 – God wants men to cooperate his plans
3 – The importance of prayer and the Lord’s prayer
4 – The Last Day
5 – While in the world
6 – Warnings
7 – Avoid misconceptions
8 – An unprecedented event
9 – SOURCES

1 - Brief history of the Church

Along the history, many spiritual leaders did not listen to (Matthew 23:9-10)
“And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.”

Therefore, it comes as no surprise that many false teachings did spread for centuries. Nor it is a surprise that 
true Christians come to a better understanding of some concepts through centuries, because luckily some of them 
are able to get rid of the false teachings they have received. Indeed, luckily some listened to Matthew 23:9-10. 

Moreover, Jesus said (John 16:12):
”I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he 
will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”

Thus, an increasing understanding, founded on the Gospels and never contradicting them, is to be expected 
through history.

2 – God wants men to cooperate his plans

Even though God could do everything alone, by not waiting his followers to align their will to His will, still 
he wants men to decide to cooperate with Him, to proceed in His salvation Plan. 
For those who knows the Scriptures, it’s not needed to quote the countless times in which God waited for men 
to turn to Him, and adhere His plan, before making things happen. Because being a loving Father, he doesn’t 
force His will upon men.

3 – The importance of prayer and the Lord’s prayer

Point 2 on cooperation between God and men, is one of the reasons why Jesus stressed so much the importance 
of prayer. To be short, we only quote some passages, but there are countless ones in the Gospels alone:
(Matthew 7:7) 
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”
(John 16:24)
“Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.”

Of course, we need to make prayers aligned with God’s will. But even if something is already in God’s will, 
it’s really important for us to pray for it, because the Lord doesn’t want to force his gifts upon us, but He wants 
us to desire Him. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be any need for any prayer whatsoever. 

Now, what’s the only prayer that the Lord directly taught us? The Lord’s prayer.
Let’s examine some passages:
“your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.”
[…]
“And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.”

Now, let’s think about it, by knowing the Scriptures. When and how can the Lord completely fulfill these 
requests? Could they be fulfilled while we are still on earth?

4 – The Last Day

It doesn’t take a leap of imagination, to realize that the Lord’s prayer promises will be fully fulfilled only 
with the Rapture and His Second Coming.
[Even the only apparently not messianic request about the “bread”, is translated somewhere as “the bread of 
tomorrow”, thus indicating the bread of the Kingdom.]

Now, it’s not a purpose of this work to choose which interpretation of the Second Coming is more Scriptural. 
Whatever it is, pre/post/multi/anti/tribulation,this is not the point here.

The point is that only in the Last Day, the Lord will fully fulfill the Lord’s prayer requests. 

Now, are we aware of this? Are we, most Christians, praying that prayer with full intention and awareness, 
with the awareness that we are asking the Lord, according to His will, to shorten the days of His coming?
 
It doesn’t seem like this awareness has been fully reached so far, but now the times may be arrived. 
Now this intention can be shared to Christians all over the earth. 

And it’s nothing new, it’s something fully Scriptural (2 Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13), 
it’s just a better understanding of the power of our prayer in the name of Jesus. 

We are not predicting the day or the hour, and we’ll never try to do it.

There is no needing of knowing the day nor the our, to ask the Lord to come quick, according to His will. 

How powerful would be this prayer, shouted by all His elects?

What if some wise pastors could be able to share this intention to Christians all over the world, and all 
together we could pray “Come”, and “Deliver us from evil”, with the full understanding that we are asking for 
the Rapture, instead of passively waiting for it? 

This would be an unprecedented event in History, since so far most Christians have passively waited for it

5 – While in the world

Asking for the rapture, doesn’t cut off any obligation for a true Christian life.
Before Jesus returns, we’ll still have the obligation to love everyone, serve other people, improve the 
society, improve ourself, spread the Gospel. All of these commandments are in the Gospel and are immutable. 
At the same time, with this prayer, we clarify our intention to God, we tell Him that we are ready, and it 
is now time for our plans to align with His plans, and that we fully want and responsibly request His return 
for the elects.

6 – Warnings

Unfortunately, there will always be some Christians who don’t really want the Lord to come soon. They are 
not excited at all about Heaven. Exactly like in these Parables:

(Luke 14:15-20)
“When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat 
at the feast in the kingdom of God.”
Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. At the time of the 
banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ “But they 
all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please 
excuse me.’ “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please 
excuse me.’ “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’


(Luke 19:14)
"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'

(John 12:43)
“For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.”

But other Christians who aspire to Heaven, would have no reason to not pray this prayer. In the worst case, 
it will have no effect. In the best case, how glad we will be, to see the Lord coming quickly for us.

7 – Avoid misconceptions

Q: “Does praying the Lord to come quickly mean that we don’t trust His promise that He will come?”
A: “Absolutely not. The Lord knew the future. He knew about the prayers from His elects, and that he wouldn’t 
wait to fulfill them. Exactly as in countless other situations, in which the Lord has waited for men to ask Him 
for what is good. (Matthew 15:21-28). We are sure that His promise will be fulfilled, but we want to be among the 
ones that have aligned with His will and asked Him to fulfill it quickly.”

Q: “Are we forcing the Lord to do something not in His will? Doesn’t He know the Right Time?”
A: “He knows the Right Time, and we don’t know according to which criteria He has decided it. 
But according to the prayer He taught, when He decided it, part of the weight for the decision, 
came from considering the prayers of His elects (2 Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13, Luke 18:1-8). 
Exactly as in other situations, He gave importance and weight to the will of his disciples and 
prophets, when aligned to His will”

Q: “Are Christians praying this prayer exempt to contribute to society, and to spend their lives serving 
others until the Lord come?”
A: “Absolutely not. A real Christian will follow all Jesus words,not only ones about prayer,respect the 
laws of his country, and will spend His life helping other people, so that when the Lord will come, he 
will find him ready.” (Matthew 24:45-51)
“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them 
meat in due season?Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not 
aware of,And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping 
and gnashing of teeth.”

Q: “Will shortening the return of the Lord prevent some people from salvation?”
A: “First off, remember that there will never be a moment on earth in which everyone will be Christian, 
before the rapture. It is not written anywhere. On the contrary, it is written about an increasingly 
diminishing of faith. Moreover, people who haven’t met Christ but are seeking for the Truth in their hearts, 
and are loving their brothers, will be likely raptured too. 
Exactly as some other righteous people like Socrates, will be raised in the last day, while evil people who 
are not seeking for repentance because they don’t have the seed of repentance in their hearts, will be left. 
Therefore, there is no such risk in shortening the day. Otherwise, the Lord wouldn’t have taught us this prayer.”

Q:”What about theological and philosophical implications of this event Why someone is taken and someone 
else left?”
A: “These are not treated here. They will be treated in other works, and some wise pastors will be able 
to answer this, by following the Scriptures”

8 – An unprecedented event

If most Christian living today will share this intention, and pray together for it, this will be an 
unprecedented even in the history of the world.
If the rapture happened centuries ago, it would have likely remained unexplained and not testified everywhere. 
But nowadays, thanks to technologies and to the Gospel spread everywhere, it will be testified to people of 
all nations, and everyone will know what happened. 

Now, our hope is that some wise Christian, who spent their lifes in the hope of Jesus’ Return, will actively spread 
this prayer and this intention among other pastors and Christians, so that all of us may be reunited under 
the Lord’s prayer, and pray together, with full intention and understanding and without the usual countless 
distractions and desires:


Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy Name, 
thy kingdom come, 
thy will be done, 
on earth as it is in heaven. 

Give us this day the bread of the Day that is coming. 
And forgive us our trespasses, 
as we forgive those
who trespass against us. 

And lead us not into temptation, 
but deliver us from evil. 

Maranatha. 
Our Lord, come!

 

9 - SOURCES:

http://learnbibleprophecy.blogspot.it/2010/12/come-lord-jesus-maranatha.html

https://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/read/articles/can-we-hasten-the-second-coming-of-christ-15204.html

http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Timeline/Hastening.Lords.Return.html

http://christianteaching.org.uk/blog/eschatology/hastening-the-return-of-christ/#comment-32538

http://folkslisten.blogspot.it/2010/06/can-i-speed-up-return-of-jesus.html

https://nathanaelflock.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/scriptural-conviction-hastening-the-day-of-the-lord/

http://quailandmanna.com/god-justice/

https://peteenns.com/why-jesus-hasnt-come-back-yet-according-to-the-new-testament/

http://ifollowjesusnow.tk/hastening-ready-day-lord/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIdjGyMTAds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM67orv8VkYF

PDF:

maranatha.pdf

In my case, even though I love the whole Gospel, a passage that left me particularly impressed is this:

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is not from here."

What about you? Do you have memory of a passage who left a particularly strong impression on you?

Unfortunately, I know a lot of supposedly Christians who are not excited at all of Heaven, and I suspect that by having the possibility, they would live on earth maybe eternally.

Maybe one of the reasons, could be that some "pastors", especially in hierarchical churches, presented Heaven as a boring place, in which we wouldn't be able to do anything that we can do here. A static place.

The descriptions that we can find from Jesus, John and Paul of Heaven, instead, seems very exciting! Jesus said that the Lord will give everything he has to his good servants, and John said that we'll be similar to God (by of course, at the same time, staying obedient to Him). And this makes sense, because the Father who loves us, will likely want to share everything with us.

How wonderful is this perspective?

I really look forward to that. So much that, as discussed here ( https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/215373-can-we-ask-for-the-shortening-of-the-days-before-the-second-coming/) I wish we could even shorten with our prayers the return of the Lord

Maranatha.