Jaynee

4 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Hello Jaynee,

The thousand years comes from the book of Revelation, and John points to the starting point as to when it begins.

 

Revelation 20  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

 

Now this takes place shortly after the Second Coming, and is the period known as the Millennial kingdom.

 

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison

 

The enemy is released after this period of time, and then we have the Gog-Magog war which is the conclusion of hostilities.  After that is when we are told the New Jerusalem descends to the earth.

 

Revelation 21  Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God."

 

Hope that answers your question.

God bless

Thank you very much for the reply! You explained that in a way my burling mind could understand lol. Thank you! :-) 

On 18/01/2018 at 11:45 AM, eileenhat said:

There are two heavens.  2nd Heaven is where the fallen angels are* (and where the stars in our sky reside).

Third Heaven is where God's throne lies (ie. where he resides with Christ, at his right hand, to this very day).

In the Bible it is said that God sits above the firmament (ie. the tent like structure that covers the earth, earth being a a flat structure)**.

It therefore is a real place that man can not see .

We can not see God since a veil was placed between us.  I have looked for exact passages and find a variety of them, but none that says exactly that.  Though I only went through 6 0r 7 of them right now.   We know from Genesis 3:15 that as curse was placed on Adam, thus all men, and that Adam and Eve were changed by their being cast from the Garden (though this 'change' is also shroud in mystery).  But all know that Adam walked with God in the Garden, but never again on earth.  Thus allowing us to understand that while God exists, we can not see him, nor fallen angels or God's angels nor see the 3rd Heaven, even with telescopes.  We just see stars in the sky.

Moses was the last person to see God, and he was changed due to it (ie. his face became bright).  That occurred on earth.

Back to your question now.  Is Heaven a place where we will physically be?

Adam was never in the 3rd Heaven and Rev. 21 also states we will not be in Heaven physically, but in New Jerusalem, on New Earth in 1,000+ years from now.

Many have visited God in his throne room, either by vision, or having been taken out of their bodies, so their souls could visit with him.

All of these visits occurred prior to Jesus's time on earth.

Therefore, it is not a place then that Humans can visit, only souls ( as Rev. 6:9 states souls were under God's throne prior to their resurrection on Earth)***.

My own testimony concurs this as God allowed me to witness 3rd Heaven in a vision a couple of years ago and it was indeed a paradise (though not one you would expect) and no human resided there.  

It has helped me understand these passages, so I assume that is the reason for this wonderful vision, as we have been conditioned against a real 3rd Heaven existing, literally.  But it is indeed 'real' and has a form (a physical reality).

*"The third heaven is mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12:2. Paul says, “I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.” In verse 4, Paul equates the third heaven with “paradise,” the realm where God dwells. If the third heaven is God’s dwelling place, then we could consider the second heaven to be “outer space,” the realm of the stars and planets; and the first heaven to be earth’s atmosphere, the realm of the birds and clouds."

https://www.gotquestions.org/second-heaven.html

**"King James Bible
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:" Isaiah 40:22

***"King James Bible
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

If the Bible has stated that we will be in the New Jerusalem in 1000+ years from now.. It would have still said this "100" years ago, therefore would it not be 900 years from now? Where in the Bible does it state that it will be 1000+ years from "now"? 

Just something I wonder when I see this 1000 + years statement all the time. 

44 minutes ago, inchrist said:

And that's cool, likewise spirit itself is difficult to define....this is not an easy subject.

 

 

I halfway agree with you, just not the bit you will be with Christ  as soon as you shed your mortal body.  

Immortality throughout scripture is only given at the resurrection for the righteous not before. There is no concept nor phrase of immortal soul in scripture.

Try this exercise.....every verse you think speaks of immortal soul; think resurrection.

Because that is the fundamental core of what we believe through Christ . The only answer for immortality- resurrection. 

This is why we preach the good news..... Christ has risen.

So then, where do you propose we will be when we die @inchrist? Whilst we are waiting to be in the presence of God? 

Sorry if you have answered this already - finding it hard to keep up with all the different comments! 

15 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

No , not nonsense at all.  No,  not only 144,000,  but yes,  the majority of all people are condemned.  This is truth , from God, throughout all Scripture.

Sorry @simplejeff

The group of Jehovah's who chapped on my door recently stated that they believed only 144,000 faithful Christians would enter the kingdom of heaven. I do not follow the Jehovah Witness ways, as such, so therefore do not know the ins and outs of it all 

2 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

I don't think you are making a simple thing complicated.

Your questions require a lot of thinking and require comparing bible passages.....makes us all think 

Thanks! Yeah, it seems this topic is keeping everyone on their toes haha :-) 

2 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

Gotta agree with TheMatrix on this one. The JW's do push this. The idea being that only a select few (of course made up of Jehovah's Witnesses) will actually be worthy and pure enough to be in heaven with God doesn't make sense and it doesn't take much reading to see that this is misguided  (by the Watchtower) thinking.....hmmmm, who are they" watching"  ?

Something I believe is that even though we, in this world, look at "status" as a way of separating our society in to different hierarchy groups that create invisible barriers between us that no one should cross, I don't think for a second that there would be any barriers like that in heaven. That would ultimately create division and jealousy, or more accurately, envy.

I believe that in heaven, whatever a persons "position" we will see it as right, fully understanding and embracing it with a love and desire to see it all work together as "the body". We won't see others as having a higher ranking but just as someone doing their part no greater or lesser than any other.

Something else to think about is that heaven is not a physical place where God is, think about that ....if heaven is a place where God is, the place would have to have been there before God in order for God to go there. Otherwise where was God before that??  But....God created everything.

Heaven is not where God is....God is where heaven is, or to put it another way,....where God is heaven is .

Luk 17:20  And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 
Luk 17:21  neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.   Also look at Luk 9:27, Luk 10:9, Luk 18:17

The New Jerusalem coming down from heaven in Revelation is a way of showing that God comes to us!!!

Rev 21:3  I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with people, and he will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 

Because of our understanding of the physical we understand up and down in physical ways.

Up and down can also be understood as a level of higher or lower authority or status.  Our automatic go to when we read "God coming down" is to think of Him coming down from a physical place because that's how we understand things. We don't often consider he may be coming down from a Holy, Holy, Holy position.....to dwell with us.

Incredible 

Yes, I have heard they state about the 144,000 only gaining entry to heaven? .. If this was the case, then Satan would clearly win, with the majority of the world going to hell? Nonsense eh?! 

Great points you have stated. So can I ask, if it states that God is "preparing a place/heaven for us" this would mean Heaven is not being worked on just now? If it is not a physical place as of yet? 

Also, do you believe we are in the presence of Jesus when we die? Or we are simply at peace awaiting that day to come? 

Sorry if I have repeated myself at any time

15 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

Oh wow!  I guess one doesn't see how it is for others until told.  Hope you're staying indoors over there!

Yup! Work has been called off for today, along with schools, trains, taxi services etc. So it's been a cosy pyjama day in the house for most of us here! The kids are having fun though! Haha 

I am in Scotland. We have only seen a small glimpse of the sun a handful of times over the last 4/5 months! Lol. Woke up to a snow storm this morning, and weather warnings for the rest of the day/night with more heavy snow fall 

I suppose it's nothing too surprising for us over here though! Lol 

2 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

No no, at the same time friend. The old heaven and the old earth shall be destroyed and there shall be a new heaven and the new earth created, a perfect incorrupt heaven and earth.  And what you have heard sounds a lot like what Jehovah's witnesses believe. Stay away from them sister. 

Thank you for the reply. 

I do not agree with what the Jehovah Witnesses teach or believe. I think I'm just a bit confused to the term "new heaven and new earth".. Where does that mean saved Christian's will be in the end? In the new heaven, or the new earth ? I'm assuming this won't be the same place ? 

I know I'm probably making simple things complicated lol

Thank you @TheMatrixHasU71 

That has helped. So, my question now is, when it says there will be a new heaven and a new earth.. this is not meaning at the same time, as in two different places? 

I have heard some people say that the "higher ranked" Christians will be with God in the new Heaven, and the "lower ranked" Christians will tend to and live on the "New Earth"? unsure what my own opinions on that are, but what would you say on that subject? 

2 hours ago, inchrist said:

Exactly; However I would change the phrase "deep sleep" as it's a bit of a slur phrase to what it actually is sleep of death , and it's just as Paul taught

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood [i.e., mortality] cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." 1 Cor. 15:50

and here

But our commonwealth is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body (Philippians 3:20-21)

In other words when you die, you can't be in heaven, otherwise you would have to be immortal; unfortunately  immortality is only given at judgment when Christ comes.

 

 

I would say they are in a place of silence.

 

 

To answer this question we need to understand what makes a soul/minds

The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7).

The breath of God and dust makes a human being, inother words; soul means human being.

Since soul means human being; therefore a soul is not immortal. So a soul dies; it's silenced, so is the mind

"His  breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish" (Psalm 146:4)

 

Thank you @inchrist

I enjoyed reading your reply. In your opinion, do you think we have thoughts in this place of silence? 

3 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

 

Have you ever had a deep sleep and woken up thinking that you had just gone to sleep only to find out you slept for 10 hours?

Have you ever been put under anesthetic only to wake up hours later and you only remember a word or two before you concked out and no idea how long you were out for?

I  think that's what it will be like for us. This "sleep" may be a long time but it will seem like nothing.

I had a friend say, just before dying.....see you in a minute.  To him that's all it will seem like.

Caused me to really think about it and that it is possible to "be asleep (dead)" a long time and it will seem like a nano-second.

Time has to do with things created.....all created things come to an end, so there is a beginning and an end. That is measured using time.

Time and the passing of time is for our physical existance.

Once we die, time won't matter....no more deadlines, no more pressing appointments etc.

Thank you for taking the time to explain this @Mike 2

28 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Take heed  -   throughout all YHWH'S Plan, Purpose, and Salvation in Jesus,  throughout all Scripture,  there is no such thing as a soul resurrected without or apart from the body.   The old body is done away to dust, and a soul and body is raised in the resurrection - to eternal life and joy for those destined for life in Jesus;  to shame and destruction for those apart from Jesus when they died.  

All the references anywhere to souls floating anywhere without a body is deception,  always, and is always from a bad source originally, and is opposed to all Scripture, and remains simply untrue.

Thank you @simplejeff You have confirmed my thoughts on that part, something did not  sit well with me when reading it. 

Thank you for the reply 

4 minutes ago, brakelite said:

Correct. It is not in the Bible.

Ahhh, now I'm really confused! So where do people get this information about it all then?

Thanks for the reply! 

32 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Hi, hope the weather is better up there.

These questions are sort-of answered, or half alluded to in the scriptures. I would hazard a guess that it will be totally mind-blowing and something we cannot understand (or go mad) right now. I have my own thoughts on this matter as I sometimes daydream about flying (without my 'plane) amongst those fluffy clouds that race across the sky. Or dive-bombing the waves as they crash on the rocks below.

As we are at peace and not really 'with it' during slumber, it is probable that when we die, we will rest in a timeless zone, and on awakening, see that it has all changed and a new reality approaches us.

Thank you @Justin Adams the weather here is still cold! Due some snow later today also haha! Nothing new for us though! 

Thanks for the reply. So you think when we pass, we are not really "anywhere"?  Just in a "deep sleep"as such? Until judgement? If I am making any sense sorry? 

4 minutes ago, brakelite said:

You won't find it unless you ignore the Bible.

Unsure what you mean @brakelite? You mean the seven year tribulation is not stated in the Bible? As I do not ignore the Bible, I do read it. Trying to learn more each day, I just however have not understood this part as of yet. 

2 hours ago, eileenhat said:

See Rev. 20:4* for a fuller understanding of what being resurrected in 1,000+ years into glorified 'immortal' bodies looks like for us now.

Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate a person is risen with their original body.  Instead, it only mentions 'souls' resurrecting in this passage.  So God saves our soul, but not our bodies.  

I have explained this process before as God allowed me to witness the resurrection of the saints, here on earth. Oct. 31st., 2015.  Since it was only a soul resurrection, it remained unseen to the world.  God revealed to me that these saint's souls were resurrected into newly glorified bodies, bodies that already existed here (as their original occupant's soul having been judged as most evil and corrupt, and thus tossed into the lake of fire that previous May, which I also witnessed....a much longer story).  

While at first glance this resurrecting of only souls makes no sense, because we have not been taught that God can separate a soul from a human host body and leave the body alive, thus allowing the soul to be judge separately, that is indeed exactly what God can do.  Our acceptance of this fact being unnecessary to his plan for us.

God then has a free hand to 'cleanse of sin' this now 'empty vessel' for his work and can then place a 'saint's soul' into the once ''evil' person's body'**.  

He does not have to gather the dust and create a duplicate 'clone' body for you this way, nor does he have to give you new memories to suit your new situation.  A nifty fix.

 

*"King James Bible, Rev. 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

 

**"King James Bible, Rev. 9:5
And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."

Thank you for the reply @eileenhat 

I would love to hear more about what you had witnessed! So interesting. Thanks again, I plan to start reading the book of Revelation from the beginning this evening! 

Looking for some opinions/ bible info. Is Heaven a place where we will physically be? Or a place we will feel spiritually? 

Also - I'm aware the dead will sleep, until the coming of Jesus. I don't believe we go straight to Heaven. I believe we will all be judged at the same time. Although, the part I'm unsure about is, where will our minds and souls be during this time of "sleep"? And are the saved at peace during this time? 

My Grandmother has recently passed away, she was saved also. I suppose it's just made me wonder about these things a little more and spiritually where will she be at this moment ? If anywhere ? 

Thanks 

9 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Read the book of Revelation at the end of the Holy Bible.

Yeah, going to have a go at reading it from the beginning. Rather than bits here and there! Thanks ! :-) 

9 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Yes it does make it easier to get through days and nights. The seven year tribulation is open to debate. Because there are different views on it. 

             But I do believe in a great tribulation that will come before the second coming of Jesus. 

             After that tribulation the heavenly signs will appear.  Christ said when you see all this happen look up for redemption draws near. 

            It's a good subject luke21 and Matt 24 speak of it.  Also Rev 13 has details of the antichrist. Who during the tribulation will rule over the world.

Thank you for that! I will have a read over those areas. Can I ask you, Do you believe after the rapture, before the tribulation period, the people who are alive and saved through Jesus, will enter Heaven at this point? Or will they too, be around during the tribulation and have to suffer these terrible times also ? I'm asking so many questions and I don't want to waste anyone's time! Just curious 

thanks! 

4 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

This is a good subject. We should be sure what we believe.  We will live forever with our new immortal bodies on the new heaven and the new earth. What a time! And no one will hate any others. Your house will not be broken in ever. We will have something fun and exciting to do everyday. We will see things we can never imagined. And we will never get tired of it. But we will look forward to each new day. And best we will be with Jesus Christ and see his glory.

It is very interesting! Confusing and tricky to get your head around at time, but I am trying to look deeper into different areas where my knowledge is not so "clued up". Such as the Seven Year Tribulation period, which over all the years I have never read about! 

Yeah -  It's exciting thinking about what we have got to look forward to! Makes the hard days a bit easier to get through! 

4 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Those who are alive at the coming of Christ will never die. There bodies will just turn into immortal. God can collect the dust that was our bodies and change it into immortal bodies too.

Thanks Wayne222! 

Trying to get my head around it all 

Thanks for all your replies. I have never heard of the seven year tribulation! Will have to do some reading 

4 hours ago, Adstar said:

We shall be given new perfect eternal Bodies..

 

1 Corinthians 15: KJV

50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. {53} For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. {54} So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. {55} O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? {56} The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. {57} But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Thanks Adstar, I'm aware we will be given new bodies, although what is your personal opinion on what happens to our old bodies ? Do they turn to dust? Will our new bodies still resemble our old? 

Thanks for your reply! 

What will happen to bodies which are buried when Jesus returns? I'm aware it is our souls that live on through Jesus, although it's just a question I always wonder. Will they just disappear for us to be given new ones? Also, given the fact some people have a buriel, where as some others have a cremation? 

Maybe a silly question that I'm looking into too much?!