Jostler

you don't have to be specifically called to one of the five-fold ministries before you can begin fulfilling the great commission. All you need is Him, a listening ear and belief in the Word you hear.

I honestly don't know how to explain this but I do know there is no "junior" Holy Spirit. So, yes, a newborn can evangelize if they're submitted to Him and let Him work through them...from day one. A newborn can do anything the Holy Spirit can do through a seasoned saint. It's not about us. It's not about who i am. It's about who He is and what He has FINISHED. I remember the joy of my salvation and looking back I can see that Jesus loving, well meaning Christians stamped that out of me with all the best intentions and it didn't take long. I had a good two day "honeymoon" with the Lord before the rules and requirements got all my attention and took my eyes off Him and His presence, focusing me on what I had to do but had no clue how to do. I was not taught to focus on Him and behold Him while He began the transformation process of becoming more like Him. I got religion instead of relationship. And it killed my growth for years. But He is faithful and in time - over time - He refocused me on Him and got me back into a place He could grow me again. And I'm not complaining either. It is what it is and He is able to make up for any years the locusts ate. He does, He is and He will continue to. I am becoming a witness and He's not finished with me yet

Man lol, this is not an easy topic to get all the cards on the table quickly or all at once. If death is strictly and exclusively equated to sleep, I can see the point you're making. But my understanding of physical death is that it's primary function is to kill off this body. It doesn't necessarily mean conscious awareness is lost. And obviously for those at the final resurrection in the verse you just mentioned, the transition is so fast it's going to be less than an eyeblink between old body and new. I have learnt to LOVE seeing apparent contradictions in the Word because I know that I know there really aren't any. I've sought Him for resolution of several and been answered every time and every time I learnt something powerful. The old "soul sleep" vs. "absent from the body = presence with the Lord" controversy is one of them. The Bible speaks clearly of both. So which is it? I'm not sure if I have the words necessary to clearly expound on how He resolved that question for me, but I have an answer. "Lord? Which is it?? Do we enter an unconscious state at death or are we quickly (instantly?) conscious of being present with You when we die?" That's what I asked.....but His answer will take some 'splainin' His answer was "YES!" i'll pray about how to expound on that and if He gives me liberty I'll come back and have a go at it It has to do with the nature of time, and whose perspective you're speaking from, a perspective from here on earth or a perspective from heaven. Quite a bit of ground to cover.....

It's in Acts 1:8. In the Greek the grammatical emphasis is not on "witness". It's on "be". A witness is what we are to become and His indwelling empowers and enables us to engage that process of transformation. We must BE a witness. It's a state of being from which He emanates, giving us power filled words to speak. I don't expect you can or should take my word for it. Investigate the Greek or just forgo that and take it to Him and ask "What is this freak on about here? Has what he said got a shred of Truth in it anywhere?" Then listen....and expect Him to draw you to some confirmation in the written Word. Then believe accordingly

Brother can you rephrase and clarify that for me? I'm honestly unable to discern what you're actually asking me the way its phrased there.

I think I can explain an answer at least in part. At one point He "adjusted" my understanding of Acts 1:8 I was born again under the influence of a Baptist ministry and baptist doctrine. (Please don't hear any of this as bashing Baptists....it's not. I praise God for the faithful witness He exposed me to there). This verse was used to show me that "Now that you're born again, you must witness! Shout it from the rooftops!" And frankly as an 8 yr old boy that TERRIFIED me. I had little technical understanding of just what had happened to me and had NO clue how to speak to others about it. I was almost immediately kicked into a position of feeling like I was failing Him and not obeying Him. It affected my walk for many years. My incomplete understanding left me vulnerable to feelings of inadequacy, condemnation and certainty I was no use to Him and He could not possibly be pleased with me. And satan made plenty of hay with it. Later He exposed me to a much more complete understanding in which I realized that the indwelling Spirit and the Baptism in Him is NOT primarily a power to witness in words. It is the power to engage a process of BECOMING something. That "something" is a WITNESS. Yes, when we have become a witness words will flow. But first we must become the words. It is our LIFE that is the witness, it is in BECOMING like Jesus that the world begins to see Jesus in OUR life. THEN the words that will naturally proceed from that make evangelism effective. Until our life is a reflection of His, our words have no power and the world scoffs. He is even now working among us and in us to rectify that "cart before the horse" circumstance we have mistakenly begun to accept as "normal" When our lives and words agree...His power will be released

He was So if all men are appointed once to die when will he make that transition? Which heaven was he translated to? Enoch is another one. Subtle questions whose answers matter a great deal. Edit to add: Any assumption that either of those two men has ever been presented before His throne in the 3rd heaven, absent any evidence, remains just that. An assumption. There is another answer possible that does not violate the whole counsel of the Word.

My implication is that NONE have been or ever will be taken to heaven without first laying this body down in death. That was the assumption behind my questioning the assertion that the virgins are taken alive to heaven.

I do not know how we could overemphasize this Word. And there are so many other examples where the beast's attempts to attack are limited and thwarted by God. The Great Tribulation is NOT a story of a beast in full control! it is a story of his great wrath and ATTEMPTS to establish a kingdom while being POUNDED by the wrath of God from heaven. Let me try on a bit of picture painting here. This is NOT Word but my own imagination of what things might look like. Lets say you're not God but it is your intent to convince all mankind you ARE God. You'll probably have to call a press conference So you choose to place yourself in a temple building recognized for millenia as GOD's temple. And proclaim yourself to BE God and declare that you are the ONLY thing that can be worshipped or deserves worship. What happens next? The cameras are rolling and this is your hour. And two little old men stand up in the back of the crowd and yell "LIAR! FALSE DECEIVER!" Oh my Kinda embarrassing to have a couple little old guys stand up at your finest hour and deny you Sorta makes this claim to godhood fall flat if you can't handle a couple little old men. So you nod to your security teams and they move out to silence these idiots. Before they can touch them fire proceeds from their mouths and destroys them. So you send another team, oops. The pile of ashes just gets a little higher. And for the next 3.5 YEARS this so called, self-proclaimed god can't manage to silence two little old men? Does this sound like a triumphant, unresisted wave of evil dominating the earth completely? It doesn't to me. This "god" is resisted at EVERY turn, and limited in what he can do. Even this terrifying chimeric army he manages (is allowed to) release from the pits of hades is DENIED any ability to sting or harm the servants of the Most High. They cannot touch any who bear the seal (mark) of God. We have nothing to fear. Those who have already died will not fear the prospect of death at the hands of the beast. I've rattled on long enough, but the one remaining revelation some need involves understanding WHY our loving God allows martyrdom and how He will use it as the LAST blow to satan's kingdom is critical. And He will reveal that to those He has called to such a call. Martyrs are the "special forces" in His army and we may all be "conscripted"...."drafted" into His army at the new birth. But His special forces are ALL VOLUNTEERS. If you fear dying for the One who died for you, you will not be REQUIRED to be one of these. Those who volunteer will be used by Him in power to bring the age to a close. Even so Lord Jesus, COME QUICKLY! Edit to add: But ALL will die Why not volunteer to die in such a way that your passage from this world and freedom from this current flesh happens in such a way that His eternal plans are advanced in your passing just as they should be in how you live your life?

Brother it will be flesh, but not THIS flesh we now know. The Bible witnesses that these fallen bodies we now inhabit were SO corrupted by the fall, that they are in enmity to God and CANNOT be reconciled to Him. Jesus was resurrected with a body but it was not the same type as the one He laid down. It will be the same for us. If it is appointed unto man ONCE to die, Then that "change" mentioned to occur at the final resurrection is a transition (in the twinkling of an eye) through death and a near instantaneous bestowal of a new "celestial" body that is compatible with both heaven and earth. Uncorrupted and incorruptible just as He made our spirits to become at the new birth. Now the "earnest" of the Spirit given at the new birth is fully and finally realized. That word "guarantee" ("earnest" in the KJV) is a word that means a "downpayment". A partial payment that stands as promise and guarantee of full payment at a future date. Have you ever wondered why it is that death is the last enemy to be put under His feet? He stripped the KEYS (authority over) of death from satan's grasp on the way back up out of hades. He could and can throw death into the lake of fire and remove it's power over men at any time. Why does He delay? There is a very GOOD reason.... We can discern clues as to what that body will be like from the Bible's descriptions of Jesus after the resurection...we know we will be LIKE Him when He appears. His new body had physical characteristics that allowed Him to fully interact with this earthly, three-dimensional world. His resurrected body was evidently capable of eating earthly food. He also had abilities we currently do not. Evidently this resurrected body could move through solid walls into locked rooms. But it also had substance, physicality, or Thomas would not have been able to touch him. He was (is) no "ghost". He had (has!) substance. There are many more "clues" if you look for them. The story of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24 is full of them, but this passage truly NAILS it in Jesus' own words: Is there a clue in the precise wording Jesus chose? I think so. He used "flesh and BONE" to describe His new body, not "flesh and blood" as we might expect :). The new body has immortality alright, but it also has substance....FLESH.

HALLELUJAH How much does God do in this earth before He finds a MAN who will come into agreement with Him and speak His will into the earth? (rhetorical question of course, I believe Amos just answered that) Is it ONLY the two witnesses left who have this honor of partnering with Him in His purposes in the earth?

I'd ask you a question in return. Why did God send Nathan to David instead of Joab? And that will be my last post in this thread because I can already see it's a pointless exercise.

No thanks, I try to redeem the time, not waste it.

So the poor woman is just a deceived victim when the baby would not die unless she takes her desire to be rid of it to this evil practicioner.....that's some twisted logic right there. And as far as David goes, God sent Nathan the prophet to expose him Argue with the Lord.

oh baloney It's about whether or not gentiles were bound by Jewish law or not

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I have no compunction whatsoever calling a conspiracy to take the life of an innocent man to cover up personal sins against that very man a murder no matter what the method was. David set in motion a plan to kill him and Joab executed it.

I am pretty sure that passage refers to consuming blood, not murder That apostolic council would surely not have needed to restate a prohibition against murder for even the dullest of Christians

Thankyou very much for the prayer, I'll take all that I can get

I'm not struggling to identify with your posts at all. It's describing a very real fight I'm in and deep dissatisfaction with some longstanding issues I used to feel free to make excuses for and I just can't do that any more. A timely word at least for me. He's calling me to a higher way of being and denying me the ability to excuse not letting Him take me there. Edit to add: and no, I don't find it demoralizing I am gleefully aware that He who has begun a good work in me will be faithful to complete it As much as my flesh may want to resist certain aspects and cling to it's unholy desires, my heart is to obey Him and be found worthy to labor in His field. It's harvest time.

a necessary cautionary note for sure. I'm convinced He's desiring we get more personally involved with the people He wants to touch, and if done at His direction, His way, it will be done safely. But...point taken.

ask God to lead you directly to a widow or orphan He wants assisted Why support the overhead of a charity when your substance will go much further if you distribute it directly to the need? Alternatively a local church that is actively assisting widows and orphans is probably worthy of support too.

maybe they're trying to tell you how much they value you by giving to you sacrificially

I truly don't see any confusion. Everywhere I'm familiar with where the topic of our priesthood and kingship is dealt with, it's dealt with as past tense, done deal, a finished thing. John's "audience" was born again believers and I don't see any text indicating the kingship and priesthood bestowed by Jesus only applied to a sub-set. We might get into some nuance about whether we actually WIELD kingly authority or actively perform priestly service but it doesn't change the fact we HAVE BEEN made to become kings and priests. The caveat I'm thinking of that *might* be relevant is outlined here: and here: The sons of Levi were priests by birth, but they did not actually wield the authority of the office nor perform the service of the temple until 30 years of age, and retired at 50. In both the case of a young king who is SURELY King due to the early death of his father, he might be held under "stewards", a prime minister appointed to guide the rule until the king had reached a level of maturity that could be trusted to wield the power of kingship responsibly. In both cases it seems a level of maturity and responsibility was required to actually engage in the activities and responsibilities of being a king or priest. But they were kings and priests literally from birth. That's just some added interest in my opinion and doesn't change the fact HE said HE has made us kings and priests. Past tense.

I got a little distracted from this topic but I'll attempt to continue on from my last post Using the interpretive keys Jesus gave us we can begin drawing some firm conclusions from the parable itself: Sower and field owner = Jesus Field = the world Good Seed = sons of the kingdom Enemy = the devil Tares = sons of the devil Timing = end of the age Harvesters/reapers = angels There are several natural candidates that could fit the role of Biblical tares and the middle-eastern darnel is my favorite, though I can't be dogmatic about that The darnel is a plant that is virtually indistinguishable from wheat in it's early growth stage which would explain why the harvesters noticed the tares after the tares and grain both began to form heads, very close to the harvest. The life cycle is a close match between the two plants (time wise) with the darnel maturing *slightly* faster than the wheat. The darnel forms a head of seeds that is smaller (and lighter) than the heads of grain formed by wheat and as a result the darnel begins to stand taller than the wheat as the heads mature and the wheat begins to bend over under the weight of the growing wheat berries. That satisfactorily explains why the tares become more visible and identifiable once head formation begins. But it's interesting to note that it was the field owner (Jesus) who decided to let the tares finish their maturing process while the wheat was doing the same. So we see a picture of the sons of the devil maturing into all the wickedness and darkness their "father" is capable of while the sons of the kingdom are growing into the full potential Jesus sowed into those that are His. I see here evidence of an increasingly visible difference between the two which I believe will serve to remove EVERYONE from any ability to sit "on the fence". It will become obvious to all there are two choices and all will make a choice between the two with full knowledge of whether they are choosing to submit to an increasingly bright light of salvation or an increasingly dark kingdom of evil. At the exactly right time the harvest will begin with the gathering of the tares for burning and closely followed by the gathering of the wheat into His barn... Edit to add: