Don19

I streamed the game online, and mostly ignored the commercials - I did something else like browse the internet, bathroom, get more food/beer during breaks. But I happened to catch part of one commercial that apparently had Snooki in it. Seriously? That was, like, 2009. Why are people still fascinated by that nonsense?

John Gill is wrong. As I said, there are numerous descriptive phrases that show that Heb 10 (and Heb 6) are referring to true believers. The issue is going back to the law. Treading underfoot the Son of God is what this amounts to. The knowledge of the truth is salvation. Knowledge is used to refer to knowledge of God - for example, Rom 10:2, 1 Cor 15:34, 1 Cor 13:8. How Christ’s sheep know Him is because He has given us of His Holy Spirit, 1 John 4:13. John 14:20. Jesus Christ is the Truth. John 14:6. To know Him is for His seed to be in you. 1 John 3:9, 1 Peter 1:23, Rom 7:4. Observe that the Scripture states Adam “knew” Eve - Gen 4:1. Do you see the metaphor? But when Peter denied Jesus, he denied knowing Him. Jesus will tell reprobates, that He never knew them (Matthew 7:21-23). But for those who belong to Christ, He is “in” us - compare Gen 38:8-9, Gen 29:30, John 14:17, Col 1:27. Read all these in the KJV. I don’t know what perverted modern translations may have done to these verses.

No. Hebrews 10 is talking about sinning by going back to works of the law, works of flesh to be right with God, and away from Christ - and even then the judgment in view is in this life only, as salvation cannot be lost for any reason. Heb 10:29 says they were sanctified by the covenant, and did despite to the Spirit of grace. It is legalism that does despite to the Spirit of grace. See? If it's of law, it is no more of promise; and if it's of works, it is no more of grace. Jesus Christ likewise threatened chastisements upon those in Sardis who had defiled their garments. The garment represents Christ's righteousness, and defiling it has to do with going back to works of the flesh (that is, works of law - Gal 3:1-3). See also Jude 1:23 - the garment is spotted by the flesh. Jesus Christ says He will come as a thief - this is the coming of the Lord that Hebrews 10:23-25 refers to. Ultimately, God chastens His children for our own profit (Heb 12:10) - because it's for our profit that we be closer to Him, with full assurance of faith, which is only possible if we walk after the Spirit and not the flesh (that is, the law). But as for sins of the flesh, it's perfectly possible for a child of God to sin willfully. We do it all the time. Salvation remains secure; Jesus Christ is Faithful and True.

No, you misunderstand. Psalm 1:1-2: 1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. 2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. The law here that God intends is His perfect law of liberty. James 1:25. That is, because Jesus Christ is all our righteousness for those who believe in Him. The liberty is liberty from any consequences of the law: the one who is in Christ can never be lost. Thus, Jesus Christ has perfectly fulfilled the law on behalf of His people. The "doers of the word" are those who abide in this perfect law of liberty, and "do" the Word: that is, Jesus Christ is our good works. Teaching that there's no "desire [to] sin"--which sins you mean after flesh, I take it--would be a fleshy transformation that I spent the time refuting in my last post. That's the righteousness of the flesh, and not the righteousness of God. It's turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, going after strange flesh (Jude 1:4-7) : that is, after this body of death, and not after the body of Christ. Repent, therefore, of the works of your hands. It is not, as some say, "liberty from the practice of sin"--speaking after the flesh, that is. If that were so, then liberty is not something that can be used as a cloak of maliciousness (1 Peter 2:16). But, in fact, it can be. We're set free from the law so that we can serve God without fear (Luke 1:74). But as soon as you start turning that into law, you frustrate the grace of God.

Freedom from the law of sin and death means freedom from the law. It means, death to the law (Rom 7:4), because law is the strength of sin (1 Cor 15:56). Law is any conditional means of doing good - if one knows to do good but doesn't do it, to him it is sin (James 4:17). So law arises from knowing good and evil, which goes back to the Garden of Eden. To be freed from the law means to be freed from the condemnation of the law. Thus, it is so that there is no possible sin a man can commit to remove himself from God; if there were any way to lose salvation, then salvation would be conditioned on the flesh of man. But salvation is not conditioned on this body of death (Rom 7:24) - but on the body of Christ. By the body of Christ, I am dead to the law that I should be married to Another (Rom 7:4). Apple trees bears apples; orange trees bear oranges. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. This body of sin is the bad tree. If ANY of your works are sin, then ALL of your works are sin, because good and evil cannot come from the same source. Only God is good (Mark 10:18). Jesus Christ is the tree of life, which is why He said you must eat His flesh and drink His blood to have eternal life. You must die to the the law by the body of Christ to be born again, and receive the earnest of your inheritance, which is the sealing of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30; 1 John 4:13; Rev 7:3) or Holy Spirit baptism (Mark 16:16, 1 Cor 12:13). When this happens, you know you're eternally secure, because the earnest is specifically in the heart (2 Cor 1:21-22). It is in this way, by having the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev 12:11, 12:17, 19:10; 1 John 5:9-10) that the children of God walk after the Spirit - the Spirit is life because of righteousness (Rom 8:10) - that being Christ's righteousness, not improvement to the flesh, to this body of death! But we're freed from the law that so that we can worship God in Spirit and in Truth, with all possible barriers removed to intimacy with God. This is by the body of Christ - hence why God tells us not only in 1 John but in 2 John as well that it is the spirit of antichrist which does not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. Jesus Christ condemned sin in the flesh (Rom 8:3). 1 John 4:2-3: 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 John 1:7: For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. He that hath an ear, let him hear!

Where was Judas's free will when he was chosen as the one who would betray Jesus? Or the free will of the mob that crucified Jesus, which did what God's hand did determine before to be done (Acts 4:28)? Where was Pharaoh's free will when God said, He would harden his heart? How about the free will of the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction (Romans 9:22)? No free will for those ordained to condemnation (Jude 1:4), appointed to disobedience (1 Peter 2:8)! Every one of the elect is written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. But if not for the specific circumstances of my birth (my parents getting together, their parents getting together, etc.) I wouldn't have been born. Those acts have been predetermined in order to bring about my being. God didn't merely "foresee" me coming into being through the free will actions of men, but loved me before the world began, with an everlasting love (Jeremiah 31:3), and actively brought me into existence in time by the means He foreordained. So I perceive that absolute predestination is true and biblical. But absolute predestination is not the gospel. Many predestinarians say that one must persevere in faith and obedience in order to be saved; they subtly corrupt the gospel. They will say, but such faith and perseverance is a gift of God, not something that man does. Yet this is a denial of the gospel. If you truly believe, "it is finished." And God gives us of His Spirit that we know we're His (1 John 4:13), sealing us (Eph 1:13-14). There is literally nothing you can do to escape from God at that point, even if you wanted to. You're His forever. You're part of the body of Christ and are dead to the law, dead to sin. Thus, you may or may not believe all your actions are predestined beforehand or not, and yet still worship God in Spirit and in Truth just as anyone else who is in Christ. If you believe you have free will, you know that you are God's slave, His purchased possession, and so you're never getting out of His loving arms. If you believe all your actions are predetermined, the same holds true. Why would God put it in your heart to want to leave Him? Because He can do what He wants, and He can turn your heart back as He so pleases, on this side of the resurrection or the other. You have to understand the sheer worthlessness that is man's flesh. We're not in the flesh, if the Spirit of God is in us; we're crucified with Christ. We've eaten of the tree of life; we've escaped this body of death by the body of Christ. God is a Spirit - He is not worshiped with men's hands. Some find it incredulous that God would ordain certain sins in His elect, but His ways are not man's way. He doesn't see things as men do. He knows what is in man. I assure you, you are no less wicked than the worst serial killer, child rapist, etc., out there. You are dust, just as the worst sinner out there - conceived in iniquity, and a vessel to one of two ends in the hands of a sovereign Potter.

This saying has to do with forsaking all self-righteousness, all confidence in the flesh. Phil 3:3: For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

That's only true, if we are speaking after the manner of men. But like I said earlier, Jesus Christ is the tithe for all who believe in Him. Otherwise, to read Scriptures about tithing would profit us nothing, but all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable.

The New Testament age began at Pentecost, indeed. However, everything in the Bible is relevant to the New Testament. Everything in the Bible is profitable. For anyone who has the knowledge of God, as well as maturity, it is great to read the Old Testament spiritually, because there is a lot of good stuff that God has put there for His elect to feast upon! It's stuff that the world doesn't know, because it can't see.

The tithe in the New Testament is Jesus Christ. Not money, which belongs to Caesar (a type of antichrist), not God. Jesus said, give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

Here's the problem: that saying, that you will know them by their fruit, is so misinterpreted. You are quite right that many goats will show all the characteristics you mentioned. They will also do lots of "good works" and call that "fruit." They will call all the things you mentioned "fruit" as well. But it's not fruit. If you are a branch in the Jesus tree, then Jesus Christ is your fruit. Apple trees produce apples, etc. But all those things are works of the flesh; they're not "fruit." You will know them by their fruits = their words, not works of the flesh. Read Matthew 12. Do they preach Christ as all of their salvation? But to bear bad fruit is to preach man's righteousness, because all of man's righteousness is as filthy rags.

If you had cancer, would you get it treated? Or just let it take its course? Me, I hate this life, and I'd rather let it expire, if God would have it happen. Oh, what a way to live it is now! When I was an atheist, I was scared of everything. Didn't want to die, didn't want cancer. Now, I don't care. To live is Christ and to die is gain!

Thank you. I am trying to do likewise. That is, love you in deed and not in word only. As you may have observed, I am preaching grace as my good works. Unfortunately, you have withstood my words, but I think this doctrine is greatly edifying to the body, and is certainly not division against correct doctrine; so I will continue on a bit, if you will hear me out. On the subject of love, John wrote in his first epistle that the one who hates his brother is a murderer, and that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. And that we know we have passed from death to life because we love the brethren. Now, note that you need spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear to understand John's words; he says those born of God hear, but those not born of God do not (1 John 4:6). I'm sure we all understand how the world reads those statements. It's also self-evident that many unregenerate people seem to show love for one another - e.g., Catholics, Mormons, etc.; and they do works of love, etc., in the world's eyes. But keep in mind, that for the one who is in Christ, Jesus Christ is our good works. For those who are not in Christ, their works are the works of their flesh. They are as Cain, and the works of their flesh are rejected by God. Cain slew his brother because his works were evil and his brother's righteous. Evil works slay the brethren. How? Paul wrote under inspiration, that sin taking occasion by the commandment deceived him and slew him (Rom 7:11). Paul also wrote under inspiration that the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life (2 Cor 3:6). Do you see? The "murderers" that John is talking about are ministers of the letter. They're ministers of death. It's a metaphor. In John 8, they took up stones to try to kill Jesus in the flesh (1 John 4:2-3). The heart of stone does wage war against the heart of flesh; you will recall that in regeneration our heart of stone is replaced by a heart of flesh. Now, preaching "good works" of the flesh is preaching law. James says that if one knows to do good, but doesn't do it, it is sin unto him. And law is the strength of sin (1 Cor 15:56). The wages of sin is death. It's a sense of condemnation, of alienation from God. Death is a metaphor to describe what happens to truly born again, eternally-secure believers who fall back into legalistic thinking and away from grace (James 5:19-20, Rom 8:13). Therefore, we must preach Jesus Christ as our good works. We must preach grace as our good works. If we do that, we love the brethren in deed and not in word only. But also keep in mind: John wrote his epistle that we sin not; but if any man does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. All unrighteousness is sin, but there is a sin not unto death. The "sin" and "unrighteousness" here are unbelief, wrong doctrine.

I don't see the OP slandering anyone. It seems he was speaking in generalities, and was making a valid observation. A biblical observation, too, as we're living in the perilous times of the last days. That's not slander. And the Scripture you cited would concern judging a believer by the law. How can we do that? Christ has freed me from the law by fulfilling it on my behalf; to call me a sinner after the law and accuse me before my Master would be slander, an untrue statement.

If you look at the next two verses of 1 Timothy 4 (that is, verses 2 and 3) it should become obvious that this is a prophecy concerning Roman Catholicism. This involves forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats, two very specific things that Roman Catholicism imposes on its adherents. Thus, the departure from the faith in no way refers to genuinely born again believers losing salvation, but professing believers who are actually unbelievers. Same sense in 2 Thess 2. We're in the apostasy right now. We've been in it for a long time. Paul told Timothy, evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. The warnings against unbelief in Hebrews have to do with true believers. Most of it has to do with turning back to works of the flesh rather than living by faith. We see this theme throughout the New Testament epistles. But it is so axiomatic that a born again child of God cannot be eternally lost - hence why the author of Hebrews talks about moving on from milk and into meat, and going on to perfection, and things that accompany salvation. It's one thing to be in Christ and to be born again, but the constant theme we see in the epistles may be summarized as James said, be a doer of the word and not a hearer only. How do we become doers of the word? It's just the opposite of how the carnal mind hears that: it is that Jesus Christ is all of our good works, all of our righteousness. We walk in Him just as we received Him (Col 2:6), having no confidence in our flesh. We are not to touch the unclean thing (2 Cor 6:17), which is man's good works of the flesh. The fleshly lusts which war against the soul (1 Peter 2:11) are the "good works" that the natural man desires to do. Because all of man's good works, all of man's righteousness, is as filthy rags before God, as an unclean thing (Isaiah 64:6). We are not to defile our garments (Rev 3:4), which is Christ's righteousness, by our own righteousness, which is filth.

A pair of keys which I had kept on my keychain, which unlocked the drawer at my desk at work, disappeared. Just vanished. One day they were on my keychain, and the next they were totally gone from the keychain. When I believed--that is, that it is finished and salvation in Christ is permanent--after a rather sudden change of heart from being an atheist and a period of seeking God, it also occurred to me what the meaning of that was: that God has locked me away and I am His forever.

Jesus taught a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. The personal testimony I received from God when I believed is that I am sealed, eternally secure. God revealed this to me personally, and I believe Him. Jesus taught that Satan does not cast out Satan, and I believe Him. This is also taught in Scripture; one needs eyes to see it. Nothing in Hebrews or any other book of the Bible contradicts it. But God has put a lot of hard sayings in the Bible. Read Matthew 13:10-17 for why that is. But I was translated into the kingdom of His dear Son, and I understand perfectly why Jesus taught that the one who speaks against the Holy Spirit does not have forgiveness, but that all other manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven. How can one who has received the witness of the Holy Spirit speak against this? This testimony is God's earnest. If one speaks against the Holy Spirit, it's rather a sign that such a one has not received the Spirit of Christ and is thus none of His (Romans 8:9).

You citation to Paul’s words to the Thessalonians to work with their hands is a huge fail. He told them to do so so they can have what is of this world. He said this for the same reason that Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to give to God what is God’s. In this present evil world, we must work with our hands and build up treasure. But God doesn’t want our earthly treasure. You can’t serve God and mammon. It bears Caesar’s image, not God’s, and Caesar is a type of antichrist. Jesus is our treasure; we offer Him up to God. He is our tithe to God, not our money, and most emphatically not the works of our hands. Likewise, many of the references to our “works” and what we sow have to do with what I’ve been telling you: Jesus Christ is our good works. Paul said in Titus that to those who are unbelieving, nothing is pure - that they profess to know God but deny Him in works. Jesus Christ is our works, Josheb. To those who believe, all things are pure. Because Jesus Christ is our works. If you build evil works upon this foundation, you will get burned (yet still be saved). That is, judged. That’s what Paul is saying in 1 Cor 3. If you sow to the flesh, you will reap corruption. But by sowing to the Spirit, we reap reward. That reward is intimacy with God in this life. God is our reward - Gen 15:1. Jesus said He will give to us according to our works. He said, I have not found thy works perfect before God, to Sardis. Our works should be perfect because we are as He is in this world. How do we have perfect works? Just believe. Just rest in Him. He has given us rest. The one who was working on the Sabbath day was to be put to death. So likewise we mortify the deeds of this flesh, that we may live unto God.

It is idolatry to worship the works of your own hands (Isaiah 2:8). It is also forbidden to make any graven image or any likeness of any thing and to worship that, even if you think that in doing so you're worshiping God. This would be to worship the works of your hands, the works of your flesh, which you think God has done through you. There is none like God (Isaiah 40:25). It was Lucifer who said, I will be like the Most High (Isaiah 14:14). It was the Pharisee in Luke 18 who thanked God for how He made him. The Pharisee was looking towards fleshy improvement, just as many do today. Why? Because it's the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life, to do visible "good works," just as the fruit that grew from the tree of knowledge of good and evil looked good to Eve, and pleasant to the eyes. If you're a branch in the Jesus tree, then Jesus is your works. You offer Jesus as your sacrifice to God, as the sacrifice must be without blemish. You don't offer this body of sin, which is filthy. So Jesus is the good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in. The branch can do nothing except it abide in the vine. All the things you mentioned are done in the flesh. These are visible works, but the new creation in Christ is invisible. The things which are seen are temporal but the things that are not seen are eternal (2 Cor 4:18). Because right now, it does not yet appear what we shall be (1 John 3:2). You can see all your works of the flesh now; these are temporal, and will all be burned up with all the world's works (2 Peter 3:10).

Works of the flesh are the works that your flesh does. You had mentioned a bunch of them in the post I quoted. Let me refresh your memory: "One man said he helped a church administrator and elder discover some of their mail had been going to another address, which explained why their utilities were being threatened. He helped resolve a communications deficit between staff and clergy in another congregation, repair the wifi network in another, helped an ESL teacher tutor a student, a Jewish man work out his anger with his father, a young man struggling with same sex attractions enter Christian counseling, repaired his daughter's car stereo (which I suppose anyone could do), helped his son set up direct deposit banking explaining to him biblical principles of stewardship, loved his wife by purchasing a gift he knew she wanted but for which she hadn't asked and telling her what an exemplary wife she is, escorted two women to their cars at night to insure their safety in the poorly lit parking lot, and repaired an elderly woman's broken lamp (which I again suppose anyone could do)..." These are works of the flesh, Josheb. Another day dead to self, another day crucified with Christ, another day sealed with the Spirit and in the loving arms of my Master.

Overcoming the world is not doing works of the flesh - quite the contrary. The context of Eph 2:10 is that Jesus Christ is our good works. Jesus Christ is the good works that God has before ordained that we should walk in. You are definitely looking at "victories" the way the world looks at them. The kingdom of God is righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. Your attitude of "get to work!" is not in keeping with that. Jesus Christ has given us peace and rest. We produce fruit only by abiding in Him. "Fruits" are NOT works of the flesh! A man's works of the flesh are the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life (1 John 2:16). They're the lust of the eyes because they're visible.

Anyone who says that you can lose your salvation (even voluntarily, if you wanted to give it up) speaks against the Holy Spirit, and you know what Jesus says about those who speak against or blaspheme the Holy Spirit. When you're born again, you're sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13-14). This sealing or earnest of the Spirit is specifically in your heart (2 Cor 1:21-22). Get that? This is the circumcision of the heart. Sealed. Shut up, enclosed. You are cut off from your body of sin, just as He was cut off (Isaiah 53:8). You are crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20). Daniel 12:9: "And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." Song 4:12: "A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed." Neh 3:3: "But the fish gate did the sons of Hassenaah build, who also laid the beams thereof, and set up the doors thereof, the locks thereof, and the bars thereof." Philemon 1:1: "Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer," Heb 13:3: "Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body." Col 4:18: "The salutation by the hand of me Paul. Remember my bonds. Grace be with you. Amen." Job 14:5: "Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;" Rev 3:7:" And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;" Exodus 21:1-16: "1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them. 2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. 3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. 5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: 6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever." You're not your own but a purchased possession. You're a slave of a loving Master. You are a prisoner of Jesus Christ. So, no, you absolutely cannot lose your salvation for any reason whatsoever. If you are His, He owns you, and He is never letting you go! His name is Jealous.

The daily victory is fruit unto God, which can only be produced by union with the true Vine, which is Christ. It's not visible or perceptible accomplishments, which is how the world judges. All the works in this world will be burned up. All the works of the flesh that we do are temporary - that's why Jesus said to Judas, "that thou doest, do quickly." It doesn't last; it's but a vapor and then vanishes. But to bear fruit unto God, it requires that we have the knowledge of God (1 Cor 15:34), just as it is written that Adam knew Eve (Gen 4:1), and that is how they were fruitful and multiplied.

Thanks. Jesus said, cut off your foot, your hand, your eye if these offend you... that is, cause you to sin. Of course, this entire body is the body of sin (Romans 7:24), and can do nothing but sin. Therefore, when we're born again, our whole body is cut off, we're crucified with Christ. We become members of Christ. We're dead to the law by the body of Christ. Therefore, our works are perfect, because Jesus Christ is our good works, because we are members of His body, which is life. We're not our own, but bought with a price. The body is dead because of sin but the Spirit is life because of righteousness (Rom 8:10). Therefore, we are to mortify the deeds of the flesh (especially all those "good works" which our flesh lusts for) so that we might live, and bring forth fruit unto God.

I was talking about overcoming the world, which pertains to the Scripture the OP cited. I don't measure this the way the world does. The life of Christ is a life of victory. Every day is a victory. And we overcome the world by walking in Christ the same way we received Him. I might not have a "specific victory" this day, as the world would see it. Maybe it was an unremarkable day, in worldly terms. The point is, Jesus said we are to take up our cross daily and follow Him. There's the carnal way of interpreting this saying, which I assume is easily accessible to the carnal mind (basically, doing works of the flesh) and then there's a spiritual way (seeing that the cross signifies death and means we are dead to self, dead to sin, crucified with Christ, and sealed with the Spirit). The latter--that is, spiritually--is how we take up our cross daily and follow Him.