Marathoner

This isn't a response to my brother; it's to emphasize the Vine, who is Jesus Christ, and how there are no distinctions made regarding this flesh in Him. My brother's words are a testimony of the Spirit of the Lord. What's more, we who are grafted into the Vine do not embroil ourselves in the evils of this world of man and his nations, for we belong to a Kingdom and a royal priesthood that is not of this world. We are here to show forth Christ to those who are sick and perishing --- all men and women regardless of who they are --- and alienating our neighbor by staining ourselves and taking "sides" in endless wars and power-mongering is the antithesis of who we are and what we do. Being an outsider to such matters, I look on while polarization, alienation, hatred, and division manifests among many who profess the name of Jesus Christ. We are to bless and not curse for we are called to the blessing, never returning evil for evil which is the custom of the ungodly and wicked. The apostle quotes Psalm 34:12-16: To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, loving, compassionate, and humble; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you would inherit a blessing. For, “The one who desires life, to love and see good days, Must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit. He must turn away from evil and do good; He must seek peace and pursue it. For the eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous, And His ears attend to their prayer, But the face of the Lord is against evildoers.” (1 Peter 3:8-12 NASB)

I'll revisit the matter differently in the hope that we will reach an understanding, @Vine Abider. I have isolated the following from the OP as a guide in the interest of harmony: The above is neither scripturally supported nor remotely true. Many of us, do, in fact, hear the Lord for He speaks to us with His voice. We know His voice, for we belong to Him (John 10:27-28). As I wrote earlier, New Covenant scripture testifies of brethren who did indeed hear the voice of the Lord. Stephen witnessed the Lord standing at the right hand of the Father (Acts 7:56). It is common for the beloved of the Lord to hear His voice, not uncommon. This is true. I understand that some do not hear the voice of the Lord. The above is not the voice of the Lord, my friend. That describes a motivating desire, and not His voice. I do not "find" the voice of the Lord through anything of the like; rather, I hear the voice of the Lord when He speaks. What's described in the quote above, and His voice, are not the same at all. When I ask the Lord for direction, He speaks and directs me. When I cry out to the Lord, He answers. He has always done so and as I wrote earlier today, I'm not special in any way. I'm no better than anyone else. I hope that helps.

@purity, I have moved this topic to a forum better suited for your request. I pray that you will find what you are looking for, my friend.

No worries, brother. We'll come to an understanding eventually.

I commented on the doctrine forwarded in your OP. When you wrote that you didn't understand my commentary, I explained it further by emphasizing the doctrine in question for your benefit. It couldn't be illustrated any clearer than that, and you claim that you still don't understand. I even went so far as to anticipate the last paragraph of your post above before you wrote it, being all too familiar with this doctrine and those who teach it. I marvel at how some insist that others meet their standard but are unwilling to extend the same toward others. I understand everything you have written. The teaching espoused in the OP has no foundation nor basis in scripture and yet, you question what I have written as if you understand it when you state that you do not? How do you know what I have written when you ignore concise, simply articulated sentences? It's out of my hands. For the benefit of the reader, the assertion that hearing the voice of the Lord is not common is unscriptural, for the New Testament is filled with examples of brethren hearing Him. There is no mention that the Lord is distant or adheres to "inclinations" or songs, whatsoever, so statements that such is how the Lord communicates with those who belong to Him instead of speaking is error. Is it one way? I will not state that it isn't, and I never did. On the contrary, hearing the voice of the Lord is rather common among those of us who belong to Him. I find the appeal to scripture ironic considering that those who teach that the Lord is distant and manipulates feelings or emotions have no scriptural foundation to stand upon. I expect nothing more than that.

It would be good to illustrate the effect of that wicked doctrine and how it teaches the young to stumble: If hearing His voice is not "normal" and the one so targeted knows what is true (they do indeed hear the Holy One) --- then the notion that they are somehow "special" becomes the cunning snare of the fowler. The Lord permits us all the capacity to choose our own way, and going astray for a time serves to instruct us about the folly of man and the wickedness of our heart. It's the hardest of lessons and can shipwreck the vulnerable. Nothing is impossible to the Lord and such a one will be brought back into the fold, but woe to those who taught them to stumble. No. We who hear His voice are not "special" in any way and the Lord, knowing that I would be the target of fiery darts cast by accusers, assured me that I am hardly alone in the present day. Many of us do indeed hear His voice and there are a number of us present on Worthy who do. I have encountered brethren here who articulated matters that they heard from the Lord Himself, and they know who they are. Does the Lord lead you by inclinations or verses of scripture? Well and good, but do not gnash your teeth upon those who hear His voice. It is not rare at all.

It's your OP, yes? I'll repeat it for you: I emphasized key elements for your sake. There is no scriptural basis for proclaiming that the Lord does not normally speak with His own voice in the New Covenant, relying instead upon inclinations and leadings of the heart. This is neither true nor trustworthy, and this doctrine is utilized by deniers to oppress the young in faith who hear the voice of the Lord, meant to discourage them and lead them into bondage of fleshly wisdom with the appearance of godliness. The hearts of men are wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) and this particular doctrine stands out. Not only does the Lord speak, but He does whatever He pleases; He is not subject to any man nor the religion of man. Herein lies comprehension: note how such a manner of being led by the Spirit is not the issue but rather, the doctrine that hearing His voice is not "normal" in the New Covenant is the matter at hand. If that is understood, then what I have written becomes crystal clear. If not, then it is out of my hands.

I've heard this many times: the Lord doesn't speak to anyone directly. Praise the Lord that I don't suffer from such a malady, that I should ignore the voice of the Lord who has spoken to me from the beginning because others don't believe. It's simple: I speak to the Lord, and He speaks to me. Is He is not capable of doing whatever He pleases? Or, is the Lord defined by the beliefs of men, that He ought to conform to their expectations? Certainly not. Hearing the voice of the Lord is not as rare or uncommon as some insist. On the contrary, many of my brethren do hear His voice... they speak to the Lord, and He speaks to them. For all of the talk about avoiding feelings and the like, that's what a relationship with the Lord is reduced to according to the quote from the OP. It's my heart to encourage those who are the subject of scorn and ridicule, just like I was myself: remember who the Lord is, and who you are. You are His beloved!

The Watchtower is bizarre, to put it mildly.

An allegory for mastering the flesh. If Paul was mastered by the flesh, he would be disqualified from authority. Allegories abound in scripture.

Nothing is too great for the Lord. In Him, nothing is insurmountable: not unbelief, stubborn rebellion, nor alterations done to this body that is perishing. All souls belong to the Almighty. The Spirit of the Lord convicts all men and women of their ungodly deeds, and nothing and no one is His equal. The Lord told us to not to fear those who slay this body (Matthew 10:28), so does this flesh and blood possess eternal value? It most assuredly does not. If it did, the Lord would have told us otherwise. He tells us that "all flesh is like grass" (Isaiah 40:6-8 and 1 Peter 1:24), so whatever is done to this flesh is moot as it returns to the dust from whence it came. All manner of speculation about the mark of the beast abounds. Over time, it was vaccines... the universal product code system... credit cards... or technology in general. Those who preached that the mark is this or that were utterly convinced of their accuracy... so in our day, why is anyone who preaches the same more correct than those who preceded them?

This is always difficult to quantify with words, but it's worth trying. When we surrender to Jesus Christ this is when He dwells with us, and we dwell with Him. From the darkest of times to days of sunlight and glory, He is always with us, and we are always with Him. That is what it means to walk in the Spirit, @Figure of eighty. It is a relationship between us and the Almighty. What does this mean? I can walk anywhere on this earth... through places of desperation and unspeakable suffering where murders and kidnapping are common... and I am neither dismayed nor afraid for Christ is with me always. Don't you know that those who dwell in such places are the same whom Christ came for? He did not come for the strong or the wise, my friend. He came for the lowly and oppressed. He came for you and me. On the other side of misery and agony, you will find the lover of your soul and the Holy One who will take you in His hand. When I emptied myself out at last, the Lord filled me to overflowing, demonstrating that what I lost was nothing compared to what He had to give and will give to me. I learned to listen to His voice and ignore the frantic fears of the natural mind and this flesh. Whatever the Lord declares, it is trustworthy and true. Surrender to the Lord and you will find yourself on the other side of misery. Even though we suffer, it's only for a little while.

I quoted the words of the Lord from Revelation 22:10 and 11, my friend. It's not anarchy, it's the will and purpose of the Almighty. I referenced Christian nationalism clearly and succinctly. Don't confuse the Kingdom of God with the nations of men. Their ways are not His ways. Political activism is not limited to one's chosen enemies. It is practiced by Christian nationalists as well. Patriotism is equivalent to nationalism. Before the Lord claimed me and when I was of this world, I enlisted in the U.S. military. I saluted flags... I served men and their causes. I know what patriotism is rather well, and it's the same as nationalism. I understand that you claim founding fathers and that is fine. I do not. There is One who is the author and finisher of my faith, and I have been relocated into Him and given His life. I don't belong to founding fathers or any nation of this earth. I belong to Christ alone. I obey laws and live peaceably with my neighbor while I am here. I'm only here for a little while. Thank you for sharing.

Our brother @Starise gets to the heart of the matter regarding wealth: the willingness to part ways with wealth (which comes in many forms) reveals a heart that understands who gives, and who takes: the Lord. For the first time in all of my days, I enjoy the fruit of my labors. I confess how uncomfortable I was when I acquired an income; I lived waiting for it to be taken away. That's how it was for all of my life... but the Lord promised this to me when I left the mountains and came to this city. He didn't chastise me for that expectation for He knows my conditioning must fade away. Ah, but this income never went away and has steadily increased over the years. I asked the Lord about investing and He neither forbid me nor counseled against investing money. In fact, He commended doing that because He knows the trial I have faced with having money to begin with. It's a big step. The rich man lacked compassion and love for his neighbor. The wealthy and poor alike can do the same.

"Other sheep" refers to Gentiles.