Buddy D. Mouse

A lot of SEMANTICS come into play. Someone asks "Have you found Jesus?" and some smart-aleck says "I didn't know He was lost" etc etc I am hardcore Arminian - but neither I nor other Arminians I know go around saying "I saved myself by choosing Christ! Aren't I terrific?" No one has that attitude. I believe in some sort of Synergy of God doing some things and man responding, but it seems synergy is a dirty word to some Calvinists. Divided by semantics sometimes, but in reality we chose Jesus and Jesus chose us -- despite the CONTEXT of "Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you" being primarily about the Disciples; if someone wants to apply that verse to all Christians when it was really about the disciples - I guess that is okay... "Have I not chosen you twelve - and one of you is a devil?" So eventually the disciples select Matthis to replace Judas Iscariot - by LOT - which is to me like a coin toss

Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him Right before this in Acts, other disciples baptized - the Spirit fell - and the guy wanted to BUY the gift of the Holy Spirit and was rebuked. But here - the eunuch seems like he is regenerated in a moving chariot and then subsequently baptized and no mention of the Spirit falling; tongues being spoken - and then Philip is whisked away to elsewhere. The ORDER of baptism by water/baptism by Spirit is not always consistent in the NT - but no reason to think anyone was baptized before regeneration.

The Ethiopian Eunuch came to an understanding reading Isaiah and was in a state that Philip decided to be "ready to be baptized" - so Philip baptized him in water. He was regenerated before baptism. It is an unusual incident of a disciple/apostle baptizing in water with no mention of the Holy Spirit falling.

No.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Oh... Duck already got Deut 30:19 sorry

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Here are verses which use HELKO - draw - and it is not hard to see the two definitions of DRAW - Peter's sword did not choose to be drawn, the disciples nets did not choose to go to the other side of the ship - but PEOPLE must CHOOSE when they are drawn by inward power, must choose to open the door and let Jesus in, must choose to accept the drawing of the Father Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw G1670 him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw G1670 all men unto me. Jhn 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew G1670 it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malthus Jhn 21:6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw G1670 it for the multitude of fishes. Jhn 21:11 Simon Peter went up, and drew G1670 the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken. Act 16:19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew G1670 them into the marketplace unto the rulers, Act 21:30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew G1670 him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut. Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw G1670 you before the judgment seats?

We CHOOSE to open the door when Jesus knocks.

Outline of Biblical Usage [?] to draw, drag off metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel Does Jesus draw all men to Himself with the HELKO definition of Peter drawing his sword or the disciples dragging their nets to the other side of the boat - or does He draw by inward power - leading and impelling?

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Choose to open

To say "I don't know who wrote Hebrews" (which I don't) also has to mean that I DON'T KNOW THAT PAUL DIDN'T WRITE IT. I don't think he did, but it is unknown. Timothy is mentioned as "having been released from prison" and I don't know anywhere that says that Timothy went to prison. The Tabernacle is talked of rather than the Temple. There is a focus on Melchisedek's priesthood...

MissMuffet - In Beaverton was the first place where they gave you the pizza cold and you cooked it yourself I flew from Texas to Portland, took a train to Beaverton...

I visited Beaverton - I liked it I have never been to Washington

Nahh - I offer a hunnerd of mine to ya debrakay authorized by Buddy the Mouse

debrakay - you gotta make the posts yerseff!!!

Ignoring.

There are other cases where one gospel writer says there was ONE person (or angel) and another says TWO. The Gerasene Demoniac - the angel(s) at the empty tomb - perhaps the explnation given above can cover these paradoxes as well.

Infant Jesus would have been circumscised on 8th day - not 40th - as far as I know

Tertullian is said to have been the first ECF to use the term "Trinity" - and he delineated it as Father, Word and Holy Ghost - rather than the Father, Son and Holy Ghost which later was used. Mark is now generally looked on as the first of the synoptics to be written - this was not always the case. John Wesley looked on Mark as a briefer summary of Matthew, written later, but that view is not held much anymore. The "primacy of Mark" seems to hold the field now - Matthew and Luke USED Mark and added parts of the mythical "Q" to make their gospels.

The various endings of Mark have been touched on in this thread. There are many theories - one even that the "original ending" after 16:8 was like, TORN OFF or something. One manuscript contained the "Freer Logion" - not in any other manuscript but quoted by Jerome. In any case, we see Mary Magdalene being with Salome and the other Mary - and all of a sudden in verse 9 Magdalene is by herself. I don't know what all to believe about various endings of Mark, but it is unusual if the gospel ended at verse 8.

If I am not mistaken, Tertullian himself - at the end of his career - became Montanist himself.

"I dreamed I saw St Augustine - alive as you or me" - Bob Dylan

I wonder if a vaccine could be developed that would eliminate Calvinism.