BlindSeeker

@abcdef I would be willing to continue, but right now I have obligations and can't commit like I would like to for this. If you are patient I hope to be available later next week. We'll try then.. Stay blessable, on fire, and unburnable.

I appreciate you presenting your perspective as clear as you did. However, it is my strong persuasion that what Jesus stated what was prophetic as he looked over Jerusalem and wept knowing that the natural branch of the olive tree was soon to be broken off, for He knew the time was at hand, that they were about fill up the measure of their father’s sin with their own contribution unto it. Luke 19:41 - And when He came near, He beheld the city, and wept over it, 42 Saying, If you had known, at least in this your day, the things which belong unto your peace! but now they are hid from your eyes. 43 For the days shall come upon you, that your enemies shall cast a trench about you and compass thee round, and keep you in on every side, 44 And shall lay you even with the ground, and your children within and they shall not leave in you one stone upon another; because you knew not the time of your visitation. Matthew 23:31 Wherefore you be witnesses unto yourselves, that you are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill up then the measure of your fathers. 33 you serpents, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall you scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom you slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you; all these things shall come upon this generation. Therefore, the judgment having been past upon them once the sacrifice was made, a brief duration of grace and mercy to gather in a few more by the spreading of the began and lasted to the time between the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 ad. This was the removal of the functioning civil government of Israel and with definable geographical boundaries, as well as their end of their religious institute and economy, brought Israel which "was," to the place of being "was not." This was the breaking off the natural branch. To me, we entered the Time of the Gentiles, and this stopped the prophetic timeline of Israel. For as with the beast system through the ages, Israel which “was,” being cut off, “was not.” And timeline did not begin until once again Israel “yet is” and was rebirthed. But thanks again for sharing.

I am truly sorry to everyone that this topic has been derailed by all this... My apology to all to whom this recent discourse may have hindered their participation.

I know... it is what is in your heart and theirs... I encourage you to take full liberty to walk in your own counsel, and I assure you I am mindful of how my words come across. Perhaps you should again look at the verse concerning charity, how it believes all things and hopes all things and isn't necessarily looking for evil and other people. And no, that's not an accusation, though you can certainly perceive it that way if your heart's not right, but it is how I try to view things myself. True malice is usually very obvious and difficult to hide. Hower, it's very obvious that when people don't like you, they will question your motive of everything you do. That's why there is nothing more dangerous to the church than a spirit of suspicion and judgment. ...and I am making that statement concerning the danger of suspicion to the church in general... and not any particular denomination out there.... Just look at all the spin out there in the world and it's media and politics. You don't think that's happening in the church and among professing Christians. Are there not a lot of tares and goat among us? I would truly like to drop this unnecessary discussion... It's things like this that gives the world an opportunity to speak evil of us.

I think you and everyone then would do well to stick to the words that I'm saying and the connection made between them. It is a statement, not a personal statement or attack. If people are looking for an offense, they will find one where there isn't one. I think the last 4 years of the lawfare against Trump is evidence enough of that reality...

Sister Marilyn C, Sorry, I'm not quoting you, I simply do not know how to mention a specific person in their post, I know it can be done since people have so address me. Regardless, I simply wanted to let you know directly that my statement was not direct to you, which you can see from my response to Other One in may last post concerning his question/comment to me. If it was so understood by you, well I am truly sorry as I thought I was being clear about one deceiving them own selves and those fallowing into a theological stronghold that blinds them to the truth of God's word. None of us have it all figured out, though I believe many of us have met more than one who is convinced they have. That is a dangerous place for anyone to believe. Personally, I feel that is what Galatian 6:1-3 is speaking of, one who had been removed from the grace of God undo another gospel, which was not another, of which they had been convinced of by the Judaizers Paul was reproving them about. Again, not ill intent was even slightly meant in my statement. Stay blessable

No, I did not make a directed statement, rather I made a statement. None of what you're asking was at all in my thought process at all... The fact that you wrote, "Are you really saying that..." seems to me very presumptuous on your part. Since you wrote, not only once, but twice "really" strongly implies a reality and implied intent, contrary to just a question for clarity like "Are you saying that there is nothing more dangerous than Marilyn?" My statement is not personal, yet your question certainly makes it seem like it was. No, it was about deception one can fall into, you know, like pride? Such is why I clearly wrote "Nothing is more dangerous for a person than when they feel [think] they have figured it all out," and not "Nothing is more dangerous than a person when they feel they have figured it all out."

Thank you for posting this. However, I have seen many such graphs on worthy board and elsewhere of people's putting together their explanation of things. But it's a (graft) graph. Anybody can put something together. That makes sense. But that doesn't take away from the fact that the Jewish years at times would be in different lengths, and that the Jews looked for the new moon periodically so that they could declare the new moon signified beginning of the month. That's just a simple fact. You can (graft) graph around it all and make it look logical. But that doesn't mean it's factual. I was just simply showing you why I can't accept your grouping everything together as equals, when factually they are not always historically so. God knows this, He designed it to be that way, so that God's people couldn't just calculate something and anticipate it, but they were required to be watching. Insta versus I gave. Nothing is more dangerous for a person than when they feel they have figured it all out...

Yes, it caused me to pause to question why the labeling for these duration of time frames is clearly stated differently if indeed they are equal, i.e., where the two witnesses prophesy for a specified “1,260 days,” and a typical Jewish month is said to be 30 days. I mean, really, three and a half year periods are indeed mentioned in scriptures, and perhaps even are that period which is referred to as “time, times, and half of time,” which being redundant, is equally true is indeed (biblically) 42 months or a period of 1260 days. But, what about 1290 days? Yes, it is probably 43 months. But then there are also the 1335 days in scripture? Is that reckoned as 44 1/5 months, or 45 months?? I ask because with all these segments of time recorded in scripture, something is still leading me to think that the 42 months were not necessarily complete months, but a duration that lasted over 41 months and into the 42nd month; as you know it was common for the Jews to count a part of a unit of time as a whole, recognizing the fraction such as a whole. But I’ll visit this again later… Still, I am sure you are well aware that “counting a part as a whole” has become the primary justification for a good Friday crucifixion and a Sunday morning resurrection. Is it not? But of course, I can’t accept that either since the word of God, both in Jonah and when Jesus quoted it, clearly specifies "Three days and three nights," a 72-hour duration of time. Not the just the approximate 60 hours that run into portions of three days from Friday night to Sunday morning. But then, here is also the real kicker, the Luner Cycle is not exactly 30 days. Such is why the priest would watch for it to declare the new month, with a trumpet be sounded at the beginning of Tishri. This was a necessary thing, for some times it would take only 29 days a new moon, and other times 30 days. You can check this all out here, where it states, “Declaration Of The New Moon: “Declaring a new moon was both a legalistic and festive event. The Sanhedrin would search for official legal witnesses that could testify to the fact that they could see the new moon. At least two witnesses were needed along with the high priest. This is because the declaration of the new moon became a judicial act similar to a verdict issued by a court of law. (Sanhedrin 11b). Because all judgments were based on witnesses, it became a custom to include the testimony of a witness in the declaration of the new moon process. “If the witnesses were reliable and accurate, a declaration was made. The High priest had absolute authority to declare that a new moon had arrived. The celebration would start and sacrifices were made.” Nu 28:11 And on the beginnings of your months ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the LORD… In fact, just like our every 4 year addition of a leap day, leap months are also added to 7 years out of every 19 according to the Metonic cycle, and even that has been average out to every 2-3 years. When I first learned this, it truly puzzled me for a while and was asking the Lord why He didn’t make the lunar month a perfectly set time so to have everything in sync. You know, 24 hours a day every day, 7 days a week, 30 days a month, and 1 month a year, every year. But it’s not, it even rounded our to an average of 29.5, but in fact is even a fraction higher. But no, God created variable times and seasons, all set by “the lights in the firmament of the heaven [given] to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years. Then one day it dawned on me, perhaps reading one of these verses, why I concluded God did things such – Matt 25:13 - Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man comes. Mark13:33 - Take heed, and watch and pray, for you do not know when the time is. So again, looking at the “three and a half years,” wouldn’t it make such a duration of time such as requiring one of these corrective “leap months.” And how many of all them months had 29 days, and how many had 30 days? Are you seeing the issue I am having with your simplicity of making them all equal? All this submitted above are reasons why I simply cannot accept your posts as absolute truth, but rather as presumptuous and unsound reasoning. True, sometimes “this is that” but not always. The is one when I have to disagree and “this isn’t that.”

Concerning the antichrist, what many believers nowadays are ignorant of is that this popular theology, which is being widely taught and accepted by non-Catholics, concerning the antichrist rebuilding the temple and becoming a world leader, was originally propagated, and taught by a French Catholic monk known as Adso of Montier-en-Der who died in 992 A.D. Though he was a prolific writer of poems, hymns, and biographies of the lives of saints, his perhaps most famous work was his “Letter to Queen Gerberga on the Place and Time of Antichrist,” which became known as the “Little Book on the Antichrist.” However, this theology which was so articulated over a thousand years ago by a Catholic monk, was rejected essentially by every protestant commentator who sought to defend the truth with their pen. For they acknowledged Paul’s speaking in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 of “a falling away first” as being the rise of Roman Catholicism, and “that man of sin… the son of perdition” as the succession of popes. In the second century, Polycarp, deemed to be an apostolic father, in his Letter to the Philippians, paragraph 7, warned the Philippians that everyone who preached false doctrine was an antichrist. Polycarp’s use of the term “antichrist” agrees with the Apostle John who does not reference a single antichrist, but rather a class of people functioning under a “spirit of antichrist.” I John 2:18 – Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But you have an unction from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because you know not the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: (but) he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also. Note that this spirit of antichrist, which works to cause men to deny Jesus as the Christ, is said to be also denying both “the Father and the Son,” rendering those who would embrace the antichrist, or false-christ message, to be such that “has not the Father.” To counter this, John assures the saints that “he that acknowledges the Son hath the Father also.” What has also struck me as significant, is that the Apostle John, who coined the phrase antichrist (under unction of the Holy Spirit), uses it 5 times in his shorter epistles, but never used the word in Revelation... Shouldn’t that seem odd to everyone? It certainly does to me. Of course, so much more could be said on each of these three points, but that would be a winding run down multiple rabbit trails…

Concerning the seven-year tribulation, I too have come to believe it as well is a false prophetic milestone erected by an erroneous interpretation of Daniel. Because we are instructed to verify the accuracy of any theology being promoted as biblical and taught in the name of Jesus Christ, it is wisdom to always look for at least a second, and possibly a third scriptural confirmation to support the text from which the theology is being taught. That is why I sought out the various seven-year periods mentioned in the Bible, excluding those pertaining to genealogy records. To keep the list reasonably short only a brief description is given with the scripture references alone provided. 1. There is the two separate seven-year periods for which Jacob labored for Rachael. The first in which he was tricked and given Leah instead, followed by the next seven years after which he indeed received Rachael, (Genesis 29:18-28). 2. The seven years of plenty and the seven years of famine with Joseph in Egypt, (Genesis 41). 3. Six years the Jews were permitted to sow their land and to gather in the fruits thereof. But the seventh was the sabbatical Shemitah year in which they were to let the land rest, that the poor people may eat, and what remained was for the beasts of the field, (Leviticus 25:2-7). 4. Seven times the seven Sabbath years to the Year of Jubilee, (Leviticus 25:8). 5. The time to build the city of Hebron, (Numbers 13:22). 6. At the end of six years when a Hebrew had been sold into servitude, they were to be released and set free at the beginning of the sabbatical Shemitah year, (Deuteronomy 15:1, 31:10). 7. Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD delivered them into the hand of Midian for seven years, (Judges 6:1). 8. The young bullock that Gideon used to throw down the altar of Baal was seven years old, (Judges 6:25). 9. Jephthah judged Israel seven years, (Judges 12:9). 10. The seven years of famine under David and Samuel, (2nd Samuel 24:13). 11. David reigned seven years in Hebron (I Kings 2:11). 12. The seven years of famine with Elisha. (2nd Kings 8:1-2). 13. The seven years of burning weapons after the war with Gog and Magog, which if there is a seven-year tribulation immediately before the return of Christ, then this war needs to occur before then. (Ezekiel 39:9.) 14. Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years, (Luke 2:36). Of all these, only #7 might remotely be construed as a seven-year tribulation period. Still, there is no mention of a great war, or a slaughtering of the Jews, only that they fled and hid in caves and were greatly impoverished. This is hardly a type and shadow of what is taught as “The Great Tribulation.” Consequently, Daniel’s seventieth week period is the only “seven year” scriptural reference that I am aware of which is used as foundation for the theology of the “seven year tribulation.” And yes, while seven years divided by two equals three and a half years, it must also be acknowledged that there are many three and a half year periods mentioned in scriptures; being referred many ways, such as “time, times, and half of time,” 42 months, or periods of 1260 days, 1290 days, and 1335 days. With all these segments of time recorded in scripture, it is not surprising there has always been a curiosity as to what these times meant, which of course it why it has resulted in an untold number of exhaustive calculations having been made in an attempt to learn just when they might occur. It is astounding the extreme lengths some of these would-be prophets have labored to prove they know the dates of these times and when they will occur when scripture clearly states the revelation for some of them are sealed until the end. That means God must reveal it, and He will in His time. Job 32:8 - But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty gives them understanding. Proverbs 2:6 - For the LORD gives wisdom, and out of His mouth comes knowledge and understanding. So, again IMHO, to assume all the various three and a half year periods mentioned in scripture must be related to either the beginning or end of a seven-year tribulation period would be as imprudent as believing all the previously mentioned seven-year periods were all referencing the same period. A careful and honest examination of them should produce evidence enough for a thorough dismissal of such nonsense. Though it is reasonable to openly evaluate the meaning or probability of things - and time frames in scripture, caution must be taken when asserting things to an absolute. To me, there simply isn’t a clear second witness to that being what the 70th week of Daniel is to signify.

I agree with Taowo here... However, maybe taking it all one step further. Not only do I not think God will permit a rebuilding of a temple, neither do I believe in a seven year tribulation, NOR do I subscribe to there being a "world president," a new title for me someone here used or coined, which surely is sufficiently understandable. But, concerning the Temple, I have become persuaded it is a false prophetic milestone which many have been taught to look earnestly towards as a sign of the end, I will quote a statement I once put forth – “…after the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Romans under Titus, both Israel as a nation and their religion of Judaism as defined and practiced under the stringent guidelines of the Levitical Law ceased and ‘was not.’ From that time forward it was impossible for the Jews to lawfully offer sacrifices, for the priests were killed or dispersed and the priesthood record of genealogy forever lost, and the sanctuary, the altar and the Holy of holies with all its furniture were lost or destroyed.” IMHO, even though all this was indeed the righteous judgment of God upon the Jews, that there was also an extension of His mercy in this judgment. For by destroying what was now a dead system, which sole purpose was to point them to Jesus Christ, and by no means could have ever saved them, God left them unable to practice that which they foolishly reject Jesus Christ for. For we here all now “the law” and temple sacrifices were but “a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things. And that “those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually” could not save them, because “it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.” Consequently, the destruction of the Temple, along with all that was mandatory under the Levitical Law pertaining to the performance of its prescribed sin offerings, sacrifices, and oblations, left the Jews obligated to look elsewhere for their salvation to be wrought by God. Therefore, I am persuaded the words in Daniel 9:24, “He shall make it desolate” refers to what Jesus’ prophesied regarding the destruction of the Temple. However, it also stated this destruction of the Temple was said to be “even until the consummation,” which is a most interesting word for the KJV translators to have elected to use. For “consummation” can literally mean two different things, as its definition can imply either the act of completing, as in fulfilling something, or the bringing it to conclusion to be no more, which are opposites. This is why this Hebrew word that was so translated “consummation,” has been translated in other parts of scripture to signify “a full end.” Jeremiah 46:28 - Fear not, O Jacob my servant, says the LORD: for I am with you, and I will make a full end of all the nations to which I have driven you, but I will not make a full end of you, but I will correct you in measure and will not leave you unpunished. Ezekiel 11:13 - And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! will You make a full end of the remnant of Israel? Clearly, we can see that this word can be used to imply "to utterly destroy so as never to arise again." This is verified by Nahum’s use of the word below where it was translated “an utter end.” Nahum 1:2, God is jealous, and the LORD will revenge; for the LORD will revenge and is furious. For the LORD will take vengeance on His adversaries, and He reserves wrath for His enemies. 3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and He will not at all acquit the wicked: For the LORD has His way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of His feet. 4 He rebukes the sea, and makes it dry, and He dries up all the rivers: Bashan languishes, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languishes. 5 The mountains quake at Him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at His presence, yea, the world and all that dwell therein. 6 For who can stand before His indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of His anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by Him. 7 The LORD is good, and a strong hold in the day of trouble; for He knows them that trust in Him. 8 But with an overrunning flood He will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue His enemies. 9 What do you imagine against the LORD? He will make an utter end: and affliction shall not rise up the second time. However, that is not how the Holy Spirit led the translators to write it when used by Daniel; rather they wrote it would be destroyed and left so “even until the consummation.” And so, wondrously, for again this phrase in the prophecy can actually have two layers of meanings that point to undeniable truths - First point being, the last historical temple which was but prophetic and made with men’s hands, was decaying, waxing old, vanished away through its destruction as the sacrifices and oblations, and the Temple too, having fulfilled their purpose was brought to a full and utter end. Hebrews 8:13 - In that He said, A new covenant, He has made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away. Second, when the time comes for the glorious consummation of the marriage of the Lamb, when are then there “then face to face” as the Bride of Christ, we will intimately know Him even as we are known. 1st Corinthians 13:12 - For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. Hebrews 9:5 - And for this cause He is the mediator of the new testament, [or covenant], that by means of death [being cut off], for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise, [even the confirmation] of eternal inheritance.

Well then, if they are all the same exact thing, then why would the same writer (John) write them differently so close together? Was he just trying to avoid sounding redundant?

I find it very helpful to labor to understand somebody and to be understood as well. I was hoping maybe we can make some progress...

I was basically speaking of the four beast. Clearly, there is a duration of time in which the ten horns coexist, and the little horn arises among them as well. But remember, they were on the Beast of Rome and all come after Rome feel and was them divided in ten different regions/kingdoms. The are commonly recognized by many as being the following - 1. The Roman senate. 2. The Greeks, in Ravenna. 3. The Lombards in Lombardy. 4. The Huns in Hungary. 5. The Alemans, in Germany. 6. The Franks in France. 7. The Burgundians in Burgundy. 8. The Saracens in Africa, and a part of Spain. 9. The Goths, in other parts of Spain. 10. And the Saxons, in Britain. This is similar to "the ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last." This being Mede and Persia, coexisting, with Persia rising the highest. Or, the "he goat [that waxed very great, and [yet] when he was strong, the great horn [Alexander the Great] was broken; and for it came up four notable ones [his four generals divided Greece in four separate regions and coexisted.