Hunterpoet

Why is it folks like Cathleen Falsani never have a good and clear explanation about Sodom and Gomorrah. I recall a whole conversation between Abraham and Jehovah God concerning righteous people...then we have the example of the men wanting Lot to deliver the men (angels) to them so that they could " know" them. Now according to this Cathleen Falsani, the practice of homosexuality is not sinful, yet Jehovah God clearly counts people exhibiting this behavior unrighteous, and demonstrates His displeasure by destroying the city. Now there is no doubt in my mind that other things were going on in that city which Jehovah God found displeasing. All the more reason to play close attention to why the homosexual behavior was brought to the foreground. Now then, if God is unchanging, and homosexual behavior was unrighteous in the OT, why would it not be unrighteous in the NT...unless of course...God changed His mind.....

1Cor.13:12

There is a really neat episode of " Little House on the Prairie "....that kinda gives an example. One of the kids...I think Laura...gets really ill and is near death....Pa goes off and reads the bible and prays in an effort to please God to intervene...I can't remember how it all comes about but Pa Ingeles reads in the bible the proper way to build an alter. So, he builds this alter according to biblical instruction and the places a wooden cross at the top and then prays at the alter. I don't think you have to do sacrifices on an alter , as is illustrated by the TV episode. The honor and glory given to God is in the building and dedication...the worshiping is in offering up prayers, and the idea that you need an alter to do so I think goes somewhat against what Christ did for the Church. I think the best place to build an alter to God is in your heart, where the ravages of time, element and man have no affect.

Inch by inch.

mmmm oh yes even I can understand this :laugh: :thumbsup:

I've often wondered if "Satan" was meant to be a name rather than a title. In Hebrew, he is called ha-Satan, which means "the Deceiver." Of course, in Jewish thinking their concept of ha-Satan is different than ours. It is interesting to study. Here is an explanation Interesting..so in Hebrew he is the Deceiver, in Judaism he is the accuser, and in Christianity the enemy of God.... I'm beginning to understand why people walk away.

well I really just don't know about all this. Where does it say his pre fall name was lucifer...sorry maybe I'm just stupid, so I guess I need a bunch of thumbs up thrown in my face and big laughing faces to point out how easiliy understood you are. See if Lucifer were his pre fall name, then why in Luke 10:18 does our Lord refer to him as satan?? I'm quite sure the folks He was talking to would have understood. Well as far as the name change example you gave...well...the bible is pretty clear on who's name is being changed, it actually points out that the name is being changed.....and then you say " why not lucifer to satan "...well I have not yet seen the scripture that pointedly states the change as with the others.

I believe that many of the people and the events they were involved in were shadows of things to come. Also the name lucifer only appears in Isaiah 14:12 and no where else; and in some translations it does not appear at all. Why would satan be given this name here and no where else where he is mentioned as satan, or serpent...etc.....

he fell from heaven, so if it's talking about Nebuchadnezzar, then Nebuchadnezzar would have to have been in heaven to fall from there. that makes no sense to me at all. but I learn stuff just about every day...... it's the curse of reading As I'm sure you know Isa 14:12 reads, "How you are fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!" The only other reference to the term "Morning Star" are in Rev 22:16b as the Lord Jesus says, "...I AM the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." We find it written, "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." (1Cor 15:45) Adam is the one that was in the heavenlies, Adam is the one that fell. The words of Satan was the day that you shall eat of it "...you shall be AS GODS..." (Gen 3:5) It is said in accordance with popular "teaching" that Satan wanted to overthrow God and become himself God. But, the account in Isaiah is in line with the temptation as we read, "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE the most High." (Isa 14:14) NOT be God, but BE LIKE God. How can a "man" fall from heaven then? Have we not all been, "...raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." (Eph 2:6) Can we fall? You bet we can. Gen.2:7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul. Gen.2:15 And Jehovah God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and keep it.

he fell from heaven, so if it's talking about Nebuchadnezzar, then Nebuchadnezzar would have to have been in heaven to fall from there. that makes no sense to me at all. but I learn stuff just about every day...... it's the curse of reading long before this post , this was discussed in a bible study at the church I attended, with the same result....not satan....but nebuchadnezzar...I have never heard that satan and lucifer are two seperate persons or entities. Fact is I haev read also that any association of the name of lucifer with satan is very wrong.

I guess my point is is that there really is no cause for "two" camps. For before the fall time had no relevance, and how long Adam existed before Eve is unknowable and how long they lived in the garden before the fall is not disclosed. That being said the earth could certainly have been here a long, long time. Ok...I believe you are creating a stumbling block for yourself....you are making an issue of time...and time is of least importance. There is no question that certain things had to happen at a certain time..the events are what is important..not the time.

The earth cannot speak, so man, can only look at it and make a calculated guess as to how old it is. The Bible does speak, but it does not tell us how old the earth is. Man in his un-infinite wisdom has used certain forms of calculation to determine the age of the earth using biblical reference. If you build half a house from a tree that is 50 years old, then wait another 100 years before completing the other half with wood from the same tree....how old is the house??? Neither camp can tell you with any certainty how old the earth is....at best it is a guess. OK...so lets say Adam was in the garden alone for 50 years before he allowed himself to join Eve in disobedience. If Adam had only been in the garden for 5 years alone; would this have decreased the chances of him being disobedient??? anyway...I think you understand my position.

I'm still learning, so I cannot answer all of these. From the Septuagent (english translation)...Isaiah 14:12 How was lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent[orders] to all the nations is crushed to the earth. This is not about satan, but Nebuchadnezzar. I refer you to commentaries by Adam Clark, Mathew Poole and others. Angel of light............2Cor.11:14 And no marvel, for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. As I understand it this is to instruct us that satan will appear as a holy angel, a good spirit...his looks will be deceiving. War in heaven.....just off the top of my head...I don't understand why you think man would have to exist in order for there to be a war in heaven.

people smarter than me have pointed out that God is quite capable of turning ones enemies into friends, but that He also allows persecution for righteousness sake. My brain tells me that all things happen within a time frame....not always easily understood by us. Whenever I look at a question such as this certain things seem to jump out at me. In this question you stated...standing up for their beliefs..... I'm asking myself what this constitutes and for any given situation does this standing up adhere to God's principles and teachings. An extreme example of what I mean would be the folks at the Westboro church.....most any Christian I know would call their behavior despicable...but would also not condone homosexuality...However, the folks at Westboro church feel very justified in their actions against homosexuals. This is not said to suggest that Christians in other parts of the world are provoking the people who persecute them. Just food for thought.

In Adam Clarks commentary he makes mention of all the noise over the wording in this verse and challenges to be given any evidence that God gave anybody at anytime bad statutes. Rather he points to the usage of the hebrew language and insists that( as in all 4 references I gave earlier) what has happened is that the people abandoned God and choose the idols over His laws and desecrated the sabbath...So God gave them what they wanted, by allowing them to have what they sought. Beyond this I can only say that my spiritual gut is in agreeance with Adam Clark.

Psalms 81:12 Ezekiel 20:39 Romans 1:24 2Thessiloninans 2:11

Genesis 2:18...the key here is the description....." help meet "...no matter how you look at it, it means helper. I think the scriptures make it clear that God determined that man should not be alone and that God clearly intended for man to have a helper and a companion. Your understanding that a man and a women must " share physiologies " in order to share a life is not shared by God. The ability to reproduce is but one part of the relationship, and a small part at that. I think you error in placing too much emphasis on a physiological function. Would you consider a couple incapable of reproducing unable to share a life; or is the physical attempt at reproduction the only needed requirement. I would suggest that those who base their marriage on the physical aspects or hold those aspects in a position of importance are far less likely to share a life together for very long. Remembering that man had to give up something to create a women, he can only get it back by embracing her( Gen. 2:24 ). Embracing her causes him to be complete; and the embrace I refer to is not physiological.

I read several commentaries and none made mention of the millennium. I do not have a good grasp on Revelations so I will also be interested in other responses.

Quite a few species of birds will fly at night. Many migrating birds will fly at night behind or in front of a cold front because the winds help them on their way. We used to pick them up on the base radars at several bases I was stationed on. It's more common than people think because we normally don't see them. ....L..I...B.....the things ya learn on worthy...thanks pard

What struck me as most odd was the fact that the calls started coming in a 11:30PM.....birds do not usually fly at night?? Had it not been new years eve I wonder if anyone would have noticed it at that hour??? This is the first time I have ever heard of anything like this, yet the article states similar incidents have happened before.....would be interesting to read the circumstances of those incidents.

I'll not argue that point, it's valid and I agree...one should not attempt to do something if they have not been called or led to do so...I guess I was more shocked at the prospect of church leaders telling people not to pray repent etc etc.....that just floors me

Just curious as to what " the seekers " were suppose to do while waiting for the Holy Spirit. No prayer, no repentance??, no good works or communion....not much left , but to sit and watch everyone else. I know full well that the Spirit guides and teaches me, but as yet I have not sat on a tongue of fire, or spoken in tongues, or had a lighting bolt illuminate me, etc etc...... I just do not understand why some folks insist on all these dramatic things as " proof " that a person is saved.

yep thats the verse. Thank you.

these were very funny, and did brighten my day...thank you