wingnut-

Brother, I'm not trying to be contentious here, but yeah, seriously. The post you responded to was in reply to my post which was maybe a dozen words of mine, and 90% scripture from Revelation 13. That is precisely what the OP responded to, and you responded with the quote I just displayed again. If you weren't interested in discussing what I posted then I am at a loss as to why you engaged me in conversation to begin with, or what scripture you are referring to in your reply. That's the only scripture posted in the thread at that point. I understand that perfectly, it goes back to my reference to you earlier in regards to the body. A body is made up of many different parts, a hand cannot be a foot, a mouth cannot be an ear, etc. Since end time stuff is not your thing, do you suppose it is possible God has others to fill that role? And if your answer is yes, do you imagine He would want it shared with the other parts of the body so that they can do what I have been saying from the start here, and test it themselves against scripture? God bless

If you didn't agree, then your response makes no sense. God bless

In my response to the OP, I posted the passage from Revelation 13 in response to the assertion that the great tribulation is about God's wrath, meaning that the church would be removed because the fight is not with them. Revelation 13 says exactly the opposite, that the great tribulation is about the enemy persecuting the followers of Christ, precisely why the OP suggests the church would be removed. The response I got was to suggest that I misunderstand what Revelation 13 says. You agreed with it, so that is why you received the response I gave inquiring about it. If I am misunderstanding Revelation 13, then it would seem someone who disagrees should explain why that is. That's why we're having this discussion isn't it? Because I was told that these commentators couldn't possibly be in error? If you think I believe I have all the answers, let me save you the suspense, I don't. I already know that. You're making assumptions about me that are way off base. God bless

I assure you I am not alone, and with each passing day more and more people who are willing to take the matter to God themselves are finding the truth. I would not want you to believe me or take my word on anything, that's the whole point, but it is advisable to weigh everything said against scripture. If you think that when Jesus said in Matthew 24, following the abomination of desolation, that then there would be great tribulation as never seen before has nothing to do with the passage from Revelation 13, then so be it. It would be prudent however to consider the matter, and let God be your guide. If you believe that the 3.5 yr authority and the war against the saints is not to be taken literal, I would love to hear what you believe John is expressing there. God bless

I agree it is very misunderstood, but I guess where we differ is you are of the opinion it was better understood in the past than it is today. What I read above to me is a recipe for disaster, in that the inference that I need to rely on another mans understanding is the exact way I see cults born. From scripture alone we are told to "lean not on our own understanding", and you imply that I should lean on someone else's? The biblical model is that we are to test all things against scripture. There was in fact a group that Paul spoke to, the Bereans, who were commended for their approach in not simply taking Paul's word on a matter, but taking what he said and searching it out for themselves in scripture. This is how one avoids being misled or chasing after false teachers, so I respectfully disagree with your above assertion. The body of Christ is alive and well today, and all parts are functioning as they should. John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. As the passage I originally posted says, along with what the Spirit says to the 7 churches, if anyone has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. God bless

I guess he didn't bother to read this part, the great tribulation, and what it really is about. Revelation 13:5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear: 10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.

No, this is where Jesus sets down at His second coming.

There really isn't anything you can do about his behavior, just make sure that you keep yours in line with God's will and restrain yourself from emotional responses. Particularly involving your son, I am sure you have heard or know this, but just a reminder that it is in your best interest to never speak ill of his father to him. No matter what he does. Pray a lot, lean on the Lord, you have a long road of recovery ahead of you. Find comfort and strength from those you can truly trust, and guard against ever finding yourself in that position again. As one who has experienced a similar marriage situation, this is the best advice I can offer. Praying for you and your son, God bless.

Amen.

No. I do not. However, I wouldn't be quick to just accept someone else's word on it, trusted or not.

Typical avoidance from you, so we're back where we left off a year ago. This conversation is over until you address what I post, and answer the question. There it is again, deal with it or don't bother replying, I am not chasing your red herrings.

It really doesn't make a bit of sense, when you lay it out in a complete thought. Start by the context Paul lays out. II Thessalonians 2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? Now paraphrase it in modern English with your rendering of the verse. Now brothers, concerning the coming of Jesus and our being gathered to Him. Don't be shaken or disturbed that the day of the Lord has already come. That day will not come, unless the gathering comes first and the A/C is revealed. See the problem? The gathering will happen before the gathering? The other nonsensical part of this is the attempt to change what apostasia means. If someone speaks of apostasy, or say an apostate church, do you distort the meaning to believe that this apostate church has been raptured? Paul connects the rapture to His coming in the first verse, it is the same thing Jesus told us Himself. God bless

It really doesn't make a bit of sense, when you lay it out in a complete thought. Start by the context Paul lays out. II Thessalonians 2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? Now paraphrase it in modern English with your rendering of the verse. Now brothers, concerning the coming of Jesus and our being gathered to Him. Don't be shaken or disturbed that the day of the Lord has already come. That day will not come, unless the gathering comes first and the A/C is revealed. See the problem? The gathering will happen before the gathering? The other nonsensical part of this is the attempt to change what apostasia means. If someone speaks of apostasy, or say an apostate church, do you distort the meaning to believe that this apostate church has been raptured? Paul connects the rapture to His coming in the first verse, it is the same thing Jesus told us Himself. God bless

First of all, it is not chapter 10, it is chapter 11 just like I said. Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” Now, according to your timeline of events, does Jesus begin reigning on earth in chapter 11, right here at this spot, prior to all the information that follows in the next 11 chapters?

Paul touches on this event also in Ephesians, and quotes a verse from Psalm 68. The important thing to note here from verse 53, is that this mass resurrection took place after the resurrection of Christ. Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” 9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) God bless

You know as well as I do the examples, we just discussed the harvest of the earth in Revelation 14 on another thread. We have in the past discussed the events of the 7th trumpet that appear in chapter 11. The list goes on and on, and you see it yourself, but refuse to admit it for whatever reason. Good luck with that.

In order for her to be impeached, first she would have to be elected. I am not sure why anyone would vote for someone who climbed to their current position by committing fraud, over the backs of minorities and the oppressed. Not exactly a quality person, much less candidate. That being said, I believe you are correct in regards to what qualifies as an impeachable offense for a sitting president.

Just wanted to let you know, I did read Deut. 32 a few times last night and gave some time to ruminate on it. I have in the past pointed to this prophecy as well on several occasions, so I definitely agree with your rendering of it. Maybe a few slight variations in understanding, in regards to the gentile nations. While I agree that this is a warning to Israel, and given to them to be remembered for all time, I also see it as a warning to everyone including the gentiles as well. A few of those passages are directed at the gentile nations. I saw your other post to me, but haven't seen where you mentioned what book it is from? It looks like Isaiah to me, which I intend to study over the first 5 chapters shortly, so I'll get back to you on that. If I am mistaken about that being Isaiah, just let me know where that is from and I will give that a read later today. God bless

Your point is pointless because no one tries to put for example, the 6th trumpet before the 5th trumpet. Maybe the question you should be asking yourself is why did John number anything if we are supposed to accept it all as chronological? It wouldn't be necessary, would it? Or, maybe you should explain why so many of the numerous other prophetic writings are not chronological, but this one has to be?

You can't change the number of horns either, that's my point. There are 10, 3 of which are plucked by the roots. Still 10 horns, just like there are still 7 heads, even though 5 have fallen.

No need to apologize, I was just asking because I think what you have to share matters and would like to hear it. I think on many of these things we do agree already. I have learned many things regarding the end times over the years, but there are so many things that I do not know. I am always looking for missing pieces and I believe if we can come together as brothers and sisters should, and listen, receive, and allow the Holy Spirit to do His thing, we would understand a great deal more than we do. So, I am willing to discuss whatever you want to discuss. As for the OT prophecies, those are vital to understanding what the future holds. If one doesn't venture into the prophets writings, they are missing a wealth of necessary information. I look forward to discussing more in the future. God bless

Good luck ever showing one time on any thread where I ever tried to rearrange the order by number.

You only hear that from those clinging to a theory that doesn't align with scripture, Revelation is no more chronological than any other prophetic writings. What you have presented at this point in regards to the dividing of the kingdoms and the 2 staffs has merit. What would really help with understanding your position is if you took your time laying it out, at least referencing the scripture you have derived it from. You don't have to post the scripture, but book and chapter/s would be most helpful. I get lost in your long paragraphs, everything runs together on these old eyes, so if you could help me out by starting a thread on it and laying it out in a more readable fashion with the scripture references, it would be much appreciated. There are some things you have already shown that I disagree with, specifically in regards to your take on the passages from Joel which I already responded to in whatever thread that was on. That doesn't mean I am not interested in what you want to share. I disagree with this, the AC is the beast out of the sea, not a nation. The mother of harlots I see as a reference to Jerusalem and this is the woman riding the beast out of the sea or AC. God bless

But you don't want to acknowledge these words from Daniel 7. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things. He has only spoken of 10 horns, 3 of the first are from the 10, no way around that. Revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. At least be consistent, you need to make up 5 new heads also, because 7-5=2. God bless

Perhaps the problem is the words being chosen. What I would suggest is this, don't feel compelled to respond in the moment. Take the matter to God in prayer, ask for His guidance, ask for His words, not your own. God bless