wingnut-

Revelation 12: 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!” He has had access in order to accuse the brethren, but a day is coming when his access to heaven is revoked, and when that day comes his time is short. I would recommend a good read of Revelation 12, might help clear up some of this for you. God bless

I agree with other one on this, the event took place in the heavens. If it is indeed what Revelation 12 speaks of, then it signifies something, most likely the beginning of the war in heaven. However, since it was not visible, it could mean absolutely nothing in regards to Revelation 12. Time will tell, not something to worry about either way. God bless

12 And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

10 For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up!

You already listed them, don't you know what they say? II Thessalonians 2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, Do you not see that the coming and the gathering will not come until 1) the rebellion comes, and 2) the anti-christ is revealed? Now exactly how do you associate the raising of the dead with anything other than the first resurrection spoken of by John? From the very first passage you posted, when does the gathering occur? And do the living precede the dead? I Thessalonians 4: 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. Dead first, then those who are alive, caught up together in that order. Doesn't support your theory, but be encouraged with these words says Paul! God bless

6 Better is a handful of quietness than two hands full of toil and a striving after wind.

3 But better than both is he who has not yet been and has not seen the evil deeds that are done under the sun.

22 So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should rejoice in his work, for that is his lot. Who can bring him to see what will be after him?

20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts.

16 Moreover, I saw under the sun that in the place of justice, even there was wickedness, and in the place of righteousness, even there was wickedness.

14 I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him.

12 I perceived that there is nothing better for them than to be joyful and to do good as long as they live;

Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” 5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” This is what the new age looks like, notice the difference? Former things pass away, and all things are made new. Here is a thought, one from scripture for you. Now consider what age it is when this is spoken (being the same one in which Jesus answers the question posed in the Olivet Discourse). Matthew 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Does it say in THIS AGE and the AGES to come, or is it singular? It is singular in all my bibles, how about yours? Luke 18:29 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.” The age to come eternal life, again, singular. Luke 20:34 And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 37 But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. 38 Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.” See the difference here? What age is that age He speaks of? Galatians 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,4 who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen. Well, what do you make of that, not church age, but present evil age. That is the age He gave Himself to deliver us from, amazing what one can find in scripture isn't it? I Corinthians 2:6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— 10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. I am not sure it could be made any clearer, so really nothing more to say. Here I still sit and wait for the simplest of inquiries to be addressed, such as where the end of the age can be found in the Olivet Discourse, or anywhere else in scripture for that matter. Until you decide to address it, this will be the end of my responses. God bless

The current state of the heavens and earth are not so good, they too suffer from the curse. Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. You also need to keep in mind, that when you see the word heavens, there are different aspects to it. You have the sky you can look up and see, with clouds and birds. You have outer space, where all of the planets and stars are found. And you also have the place where God resides. Earth was cleansed once by water, and will be purified in the future by fire. It requires purification in preparation for what is to come. In regards to the rapture, scripture states that we are gathered together in the air, or the clouds. The only way one goes to heaven is when they die, come the end, when the new heaven and earth arrive, God is coming down here. Revelation 21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God." God bless

Matthew 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Show where this is stated in scripture, a Jewish age? And FYI, they were Christian men asking the question. Then why is it so hard for you to find in scripture? I mean seriously, an age within an age? This is getting more absurd as we go. If this is true, why can't I get you to post it? Scripture please? I mean seriously, I can't even get you to point out where the age ends in the Olivet Discourse. Deflection, deflection, deflection. So by your logic, it is better to walk on the wide path than the narrow one? Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." If you want to talk numbers, which denomination has the largest number of followers? How many people follow Islam? Fragile argument, another straw man. I don't care if every other Christian on the planet chooses to believe the teaching of men, I am personally going with what Jesus had to say on the matter. I am 100% positive that He knows more about the matter than anyone else.

10 I have seen the business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with.

8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

Amen! Dispensationalism has caused much confusion. The passage in question speaks of an age, and Jesus answers the question. There is only one place in scripture that tells us specifically when the age ends, and yet some still insist on invisibly inserting something that cannot be found in God's Word. Elevating the teaching of men above the Word, and then claiming proper exegesis, this just doesn't work for me. God bless

6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” I think the passage is fairly clear, but in case it isn't to you, who has the authority? The one giving the commands, or the one receiving them? Think about that. Rather than address the outrageous claims you make, you try to concoct something to deflect from your inability to prove anything you say with scripture. This is a perfect example. Please show me once, where I ever claimed there is not a church age. QUOTE IT with me saying it, not you accusing me of it. Edited to add: The very issue we are discussing is the end of an age, so clearly I realize we are in AN AGE, and I also understand the terminology used for this current age is "the church age." Rather than make up straw man arguments, show where this age ends according to scripture. I have done this for you, try to do the same. If it's there, then why are you so shy about sharing it? I am a patient man, if you want to go back to my post and address it with the scripture then we can continue discussing it. Specifically, I am anxiously awaiting you to reveal where the age ends. Matthew 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” If you would be so kind, show me where Jesus answers this question.

4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;