wingnut-

Ok Daniel, then please explain to me why Paul in I Corinthians 15 continuously uses the word resurrection, and in particular, pay close attention to what he is discussing when he does. I Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? I Corinthians 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. I Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. I Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. There is a reason you don't find the word rapture in your bible, because it is a theology that comes from men, not God. Paul tells us all about the resurrection, and how it relates to the body being raised in incorruption. John tells us in the book of Revelation about a resurrection as well, the proof is found in scripture. Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. God bless

Revelation 20: And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. These people died during the tribulation, right? I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. If there is another gathering where is that found in scripture? Paul doesn't seem to know anything about it considering each time he discusses the matter is in regards to the Second Coming. John doesn't seem to know anything about it either because he refers to the event in Revelation as the FIRST resurrection, which of course means no other resurrection came before it. God bless

Not according to the passage in I Corinthians and the passage from Revelation. I Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. These people are dead already, right? Revelation 7:3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And these people are alive during the tribulation, right? I Corinthians 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. And here is the order given according to Paul in I Corinthians. I Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. I Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. We see the same order given by Paul in I Thessalonians, the dead in Christ rise first. I Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Then those who lived to His coming meet those who had already fallen asleep in the air, exact same order. And in Revelation. Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. The second death has no power over believers, the second death is the lake of fire where unbelievers go, thus ruling out that the dead who did not live again can be anything but unbelievers. Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Not possible to have two events. God bless

Exactly Daniel, so then one must ask themselves how both Revelation and I Corinthians can both be true? The only answer is that all these events happen in conjunction with each other, otherwise known as the first resurrection in Revelation 20. Those sealed prior to the judgment in the tribulation are caught up in the gathering along with anyone else that qualifies as those who are alive and remain. One event. God bless

For me personally, the Holy Spirit.

Actually what Bill Clinton did was simply expand what Ronald Reagan began in the 80's. The financial collapse in 2008 was paved way for by Reagan's deregulation in the banking sector which allowed all of the morally objectionable investment strategies that plague us today. I guess everyone has forgotten the Time magazine spread where Reagan's clowns are pictured on the cover wearing giant smiles on their faces and holding giant scissors as they cut a ribbon symbolizing those very regulations. This is why we ended up with AAA ratings on junk investments, no one has been keeping these bankers honest from that time to the present. The ratings agencies meant to protect investors are now bought and paid for by the investment bankers. God bless

I live in the Midwest and with age I find I am having more and more issues with sinus and allergy issues. One suggestion that I haven't seen addressed here is the use of an air purifier in your bedroom as opposed to humidifiers and de-humidifiers in the house. It makes a big difference I have found. God bless

From my point of view Judas, I believe God has delivered on His promise of preserving His word. I have read the other writings which were not included, and I see why most of them were excluded. A few are quite possibly inspired by God, but they don't add anything new to what we already have. So for me, unless the Holy Spirit tells me otherwise, the bible is the complete Word of God. God bless

Hello Rev Man, Where does it say in scripture that the 144,000 are preaching? This is what scripture says they will be doing. Revelation 14 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God. The sing a song only they know, and follow Jesus wherever He goes. That is all we are told they do, nothing about witnessing. They were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits, see what Paul said below. I Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. The firstfruits are those who have fallen asleep, in other words, people who are already physically dead. They will follow Jesus right out of heaven and those who are alive and remain meet them in the air. They will continue following Him right into battle and anywhere else that He goes following that. As far as Israel, they are in the wilderness for the entire 3 1/2 year period, so the two witnesses are not here for them, nor will they know what is going on with them unless there is cable tv available in the wilderness. The Lord will lead Israel to the truth in the wilderness according to scripture, the two witnesses are for the rest of humanity, and are not well received but a display of God's attempt to make Himself known to the wicked. Revelation 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. People rejoice over their dead bodies, party, and exchange gifts, just as in the days of Noah. They will see God's power and know He is the one true God, but still they do not accept Him and stand in defiance. God bless

The evidence is found in Revelation 16, and all passages that speak in regards to the catching away/ gathering speak of His coming. This is because the two are the same event. Revelation 16:15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” 16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon. Just prior to Armageddon. Perhaps the real issue is trying to understand the timing of God from a mortal perspective. I would suggest examining the three woes, and reconciling the fact that following the second woe, the third woe comes quickly. Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly. So scripture tells you that there is not a large gap of time between the two. Not understanding time from God's perspective does not make it any less true. God bless

It is always ok to ask others for prayer. I will be praying for you as well. God bless

No problem Daniel, God bless

Sorry son, I still don't see any verses that claim what you say, only a complete mishandling of scripture to create a desired theory. You have to learn to digest the milk before you can eat the meat.

No, you have not. There is not one place in scripture that says these two chapters are just for the Jews. Nowhere does it say that in those chapters, and nowhere does it say this anywhere else in scripture. If it does, post those verses son

Of course you can share scripture to support this?

I Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. The above passage tells us who the firstfruits are, those who have fallen asleep, or in other words, those who are already dead and in heaven. This is clarified in verse 21 and 22, the resurrection of the dead, made alive in Christ. Verse 23 tells you the order, which Paul also confirms elsewhere in scripture, the dead rise first, then those who are alive and remain at His coming. God bless

Ok Daniel, All I can really say is this. The New Testament, the gospels in particular, are written for everyone, so that all may know Jesus. This is a foundational truth of Christianity, and until one grasps this fundamental truth it is impossible to understand the deeper things of God. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. These verses don't say that God so loved Israel, that He gave His Son, that any Jew who believes in Him should not perish. God did not send His Son to condemn Israel, but that Israel through Him might be saved. Do you see the difference? It is for everyone, every word of it, which is why Paul repeatedly incorporates the Old Testament into his writings, constantly pointing out that it is not the law that is applicable from the Old Testament, but the understanding of the truth found within. God bless

Awesome You are definitely on the right track, fellowship and reading the bible are a great combination. If you have not yet been baptized, I personally found this to be a great help to myself personally. Will keep you in prayers. God bless

Sorry, but all the evidence in scripture points to the contrary. Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass in all the land,” Says the Lord, “That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one–third shall be left in it: 9 I will bring the one–third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, ‘This is My people’; And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’” This prophecy has not been fulfilled, it is in regards to the end time. What is spoken of in Matthew is a 50-50 split, one taken and one left. This says 2/3 are cut off and die, 1/3 are brought through the fire. I'm not the greatest at math, but that is clearly a different percentage. So what does it mean to be cut off? Take a look at some examples specifically about this in regards to Israel. Genesis 17:14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.” Leviticus 18:29 For whoever commits any of these abominations, the persons who commit them shall be cut off from among their people. These are just two of several hundred examples in the Old Testament. But let's look at what the New Testament has to say about being cut off for clarification. John 15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Anyone that is not His will be cut from the vine and thrown into the fire. This is what it means to be "cut off". In the passage from Zechariah, it is specified that the 2/3 are not only cut off, but they die, as in physically. Only 1/3 of Jewish unbelievers will come to the Lord, these are known in scripture as the remnant. Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day That the remnant of Israel, And such as have escaped of the house of Jacob, Will never again depend on him who defeated them, But will depend on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. 21 The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God. 22 For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness. 23 For the Lord God of hosts Will make a determined end In the midst of all the land. Notice in verse 20 that it says they have escaped? This is the group protected in the wilderness in Revelation 12, the remnant that will return to the Lord. The 2/3 do not return, they are cut off and die. God bless

I have been in the valley as well, so I can relate to what you are saying. Job and many of the Psalms were somewhat of a comfort and reminder to me that I was not the only one to go through this. So you are not alone, I think at times we have all had our moments in the valley. It may seem like you've been abandoned, but you have not, He is still there. It could be that at those times we are not doing His will, and He is waiting on us to get back in line. I know for me personally, getting baptized changed all of that, and I have not experienced those things since. For others I know, it helped them to re-dedicate themselves to God. In most instances, I think we just lose our own way, and God is trying to get our attention. God bless

Hello Daniel, Yes, the Lord is present in the form of the Holy Spirit. Regarding the passage from Revelation 3:10, you do realize that this letter is to one of 7 churches correct? I want you to look at something you find in regards to these churches. To the church in Ephesus: Revelation 2:7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’ To the church in Smyrna: Revelation 2:11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’ To the church in Pergamum: Revelation 2:17 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”’ To the church in Thyatira: Revelation 2:29 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ To the church in Sardis: Revelation 3:6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ To the church in Philadelphia: Revelation 3:13 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ To the church in Laodicea: Revelation 3:22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’” This is what the Spirit says to the churches, in each instance though the letter is to a church, it says churches, as in plural. You will find this here as well. Revelation 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. This is the same Spirit still addressing the same churches from chapters 2 and 3. In those chapters you can read where He talks to these churches about overcoming to the end, and in chapter 13 they are taken into captivity and killed during the 3 1/2 year period the beast is reigning, and this is the patience and faith of the saints. Those who are wearing the armor of God will do just that, those who love their lives too much will take the mark of the beast. Agreed, and what else does Peter say about that? II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Peter also speaks about the thief, the same symbol used by Matthew, Luke, Paul, and John which was originally given to us by Jesus in Matthew 24. Matthew 24:40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f]your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. From Luke... Luke 12:39 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. From Paul... I Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. In Revelation... Revelation 16:15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” 16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon. Just prior to the battle of Armageddon. Each in order according to Paul. I Corinthians 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. I Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Paul says here that those who are still alive will not precede (come before) those who are already dead. The dead in Christ rise first. I Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. THEN, the living will join those who died prior to His coming in the air. Those who are already dead come out of heaven with Him, because that is where their souls have been waiting for this day. They receive their incorruptible bodies and those still alive receive their incorruptible bodies and meet them in the air, not in heaven. It says we shall always be with the Lord, and the Lord is on His way to earth, those who were alive go up and come right back down incorruptible. They are not witnessing, they are hidden away in the wilderness under God's protection. They are sealed because they are not yet believers which is why the Lord seals them, just like the blood of the Lamb protected them in Egypt from God's judgments. Believers don't require a seal, because we already have the seal of the Holy Spirit. This goes on for the entire 3 1/2 years as stated in Revelation 12. Revelation 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days. Revelation 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 3 1/2 years out of harms way, not witnessing, being witnessed to by the Holy Spirit. This is the only instance in the book of Revelation that shows anyone repenting, and it is a result of what they experienced following the second woe, not a result of anyone witnessing to them. Revelation 11:13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly. Those martyred will be among the first, the dead in Christ rise first, and then follow Him out of heaven at His coming. You can find them in heaven here in the book of Revelation. Revelation 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. Also you find them here.... Revelation 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. No longer alive physically, they are asleep, or dead. You see them given their white robes in the passage from Revelation 6, where it tells us specifically that they were killed for the Word of God and their testimony. They are still waiting for their incorruptible bodies which Paul tells us we all receive in the same event, His coming. Then why does Paul say that those who are alive and remain will be caught up with them in the clouds? I Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Outside of the one instance in Revelation that I posted here, you won't find anywhere that people repent, in fact you find the opposite. Revelation 9:20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. 21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. That is everyone left, the rest of mankind, and they DID NOT REPENT. And take a good look at what they do here... Revelation 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. This is the people on earth celebrating the death of the two witnesses, rejoicing, partying, and giving each other gifts. Just like the days of Noah. This idea of some wave of people that turn to God is just not supported by scripture, in the entire book of Revelation we find only one occasion that this is so, and it is the result of the second woe. God bless

I think you are on the right track, but I do have a few questions if you feel like answering them, if not that is fine. Do you attend a church? Are you in fellowship with other believers on a regular basis? Will be praying for you to find His perfect peace. God bless

Yes, I'm sure that's it. Never seen the ol' "I don't have an answer so I'll insult the other guy" tactic before

I guess you didn't digest the verse from Corinthians, only one event left, at His coming.

That passage from I Corinthians tells you the order, don't you see it? I Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. So we have Jesus the firstfruits, as in He is the firstfruits....... I Corinthians 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, See there, each in order, Christ resurrected (an event from the gospels) I Corinthians 15:23 afterward meaning following Christ's resurrection I Corinthians 15:23 those who are Christ’s That is all believers I Corinthians 15:23 at His coming That is the when, at His coming.