wingnut-

It is a commonly accepted theory regarding the woman reference. I would suggest if you have the interest, give Ezekiel 23 a read sometime, in my opinion it may explain the two women in Revelation. God bless

As far as special requests, please pray for the healing and protection of abby's son, who most everyone knows has been very ill of late. Also, revlori mentioned a child named Miah that needs our prayers. Thanks everyone who is participating, and renee for starting the thread. God bless

I don't want to derail diaste's thread, but here is a quick summation from just one chapter. Revelation 17 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” So you begin with this woman whose sexual immorality and wine has affected the kings of the earth and those who dwell on the earth. 5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.” 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. The woman is identified as "Babylon the great", who is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus. 15 And the angel said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. Now an angel, a messenger of God reveals the meanings of some symbols, such as the waters representing numerous peoples, nations, and languages. 18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.” And lastly, that the woman is the "great city" ruling over everyone else. So what we have is one city, with dominion over the kings of the earth and having an influence on everyone else that is not positive. Also accredited with all the blood being shed in the war against the saints. God bless

Absolutely brother, no doubt the area itself is still involved in the last days. The point however of my post is that the city the anti-christ reigns from, the Babylon of end times prophecy, is in fact a city. Of course everyone has differing opinions on which city that is, but what we know for sure is that it is not ancient Babylon the city. God bless

I just heard from abby via the message system here and she wanted me to let everyone know how thankful she is for the support and prayers from everyone.

Ancient Babylon is gone forever, never to rise again. Jeremiah 50:39 “Therefore wild beasts shall dwell with hyenas in Babylon, and ostriches shall dwell in her. She shall never again have people, nor be inhabited for all generations. 40 As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring cities, declares the Lord, so no man shall dwell there, and no son of man shall sojourn in her."

Central I believe, but thinking on what onelight said it also makes sense to cover the whole day as well. Maybe a prayer every hour is what I will do for the rest of the day. God bless

I'm in eastern time zone, but it doesn't matter to me which time zone we go by. Maybe central would be more in the middle for us here in the states, so that works for me if that is what we want to go with. God bless

I'll be praying, but what time zone are we going by?

I will have to disagree with you on this, the entire point is, once a person is sanctified by the Spirit they are now abiding in Him. And He is not going down for a dirt nap, or leaving all those in Abraham's bosom behind either. That is why Matthew specifies it was AFTER His resurrection. This is one of those instances in theology that I am certain of a thing, so that probably leaves us right where we were from the last time. Throughout the book Revelation we see these examples, the 24 elders are there from the start, there are souls under the altar, and a great multitude is seen later. These individuals arrived there at some point, and not all at the same time, no matter how many ways one wants to talk around it. God bless

Amen brother, good stuff. Now, to go further with this, we also have these examples. Starting with the 144,000. Revelation 14:4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless. And then the gentiles. II Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. No such thing as secondfruits. God bless

Yes and no, if all scripture is truth, then you have to account for these words as well. Jeremiah 2 The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the Lord, “I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride, how you followed me in the wilderness, in a land not sown. 3 Israel was holy to the Lord, the firstfruits of his harvest. All who ate of it incurred guilt; disaster came upon them, declares the Lord.”

I know how that reads, but I seriously doubt that is what was meant. I can't imagine anyone hoping for those types of things to happen to themselves or those they care about. I would assume what is hoped for is the same thing we all hope for, the coming of our Lord. God bless

Hebrews 12:3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. 6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” 7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

You bring up a good point, one that I have argued myself. I doubt you will get a satisfactory response, because I really don't think anyone has any idea what is going to occur when the Lord returns, scripture isn't exactly clear on this point. Perhaps the most puzzling passage in regards to this time period can be found in Isaiah 65, which is what I want to discuss with you in regards to your belief. Now, you told me on a different thread, that the new heavens and new earth were not a literal thing, and they merely represent the ushering in of the new covenant. Your position was that somehow the destruction of the second temple was representative of when this took place. With that in mind, how does Isaiah 65 reflect the world, or even Jerusalem, since 70 AD? Isaiah 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness. 19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress. 20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed. 21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity, for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the Lord, and their descendants with them. 24 Before they call I will answer; while they are yet speaking I will hear. 25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,” says the Lord. If you can walk me through the above, and how that correlates to the world since 70 AD, I would appreciate it. God bless

A minor offense would be a slight of some sort. An example that comes to mind would be if all of your friends got together for an event but forgot to include you. What you're describing above is not what I would classify as a minor offense, that is threatening, hostile behavior intended to intimidate. God bless

Well, we agree they are people at least. I agree trying to determine who those 24 are is merely speculation, but the 12 sons of Jacob possibly account for half of them. I also think it could really be anyone from earlier OT writings, names like Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, even Jacob himself would be possibilities. The apostles I am not so sure about, in the grand scheme of time they don't really fit with the idea of elder to me, but I suppose we will see. As far as the timing, the 24 elders are there from the beginning of Revelation, so again, it doesn't align with what you present. All those tombs that opened up though certainly does explain why they are there, and when that happened. Happy birthday brother! God bless

Two different Mary's as far as I can tell, Mary was a popular name at that time.

I think you are misunderstanding me, and I am sorry that I've upset you and would prefer to continue discussing things with you as I am still not sure exactly what it is that you believe. Or perhaps I should say, I don't yet understand how you are arriving there. Several weeks ago when we first spoke you called me a breath of fresh air, so I just want to remind you I am the same person now I was then, a brother in Christ. I do accept the OT prophecies, but you share absolutely no references to scriptures in your posts for me to consider, just your words. Now, as I said earlier to your post about when the 69th week ended, I want to share with you the scripture that explains why I disagree. The thread is about the key to prophecy being the prophets, this is prophecy regarding the promised Messiah, and how it fits in. If you take the time to consider what I am about to share, maybe you will understand why I said "not quite". So let's go back a bit to where things begin, just a little history of the 10th of Nissan. Exodus 12:2 “This month shall be for you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year for you. Exodus 12:3 Tell all the congregation of Israel that on the tenth day of this month every man shall take a lamb according to their fathers' houses, a lamb for a household. Another event that took place on the 10th of Nissan. Joshua 4:19 The people came up out of the Jordan on the tenth day of the first month, and they encamped at Gilgal on the east border of Jericho. Entering the promised land. So, the very day the Israelites entered the promised land is connected to the choosing of the Passover lamb. So let's fast forward to the triumphal entry. The Passover lamb is to be killed on the 14th of Nissan, which is a Thursday. So going by scripture, see how this works. John 12:1 Six days before the Passover, Jesus therefore came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. That puts Jesus in Bethany on Friday, the 8th of Nissan. Now, Friday evening into Saturday evening was Shabbat, the 9th of Nissan, so this was a day of rest for Him in Bethany. This brings us to the 10th of Nissan, Sunday morning. John 12:12 The next day the large crowd that had come to the feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. 13 So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying out, “Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!” The Jewish custom on the 10th of Nissan is to sing Psalm 118 and the choosing of the Passover lamb, which is displayed in verse 13 above. So follow out Psalm 118 and the prophetic nature of not only the song, but in how His triumphal entry coincides within it. Psalm 118:14 The Lord is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation. 15 Glad songs of salvation are in the tents of the righteous: “The right hand of the Lord does valiantly, 16 the right hand of the Lord exalts, the right hand of the Lord does valiantly!” 17 I shall not die, but I shall live, and recount the deeds of the Lord. 18 The Lord has disciplined me severely, but he has not given me over to death. 19 Open to me the gates of righteousness, that I may enter through them and give thanks to the Lord. 20 This is the gate of the Lord; the righteous shall enter through it. 21 I thank you that you have answered me and have become my salvation. 22 The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. 23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day that the Lord has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it. This is where they would be singing Hosanna, in the following verse. 25 Save us (Hosanna), we pray, O Lord! O Lord, we pray, give us success! 26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We bless you from the house of the Lord. Jesus enters Jerusalem and then delivers this prophecy. Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’” And the Passover lamb is chosen Psalm 118:27 The Lord is God, and he has made his light to shine upon us. Bind the festal sacrifice with cords, up to the horns of the altar! Does that make sense to you now? God bless

Not exactly. Daniel 9:26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

I am not sure exactly what you are asking me, but what I was pointing out is that the 69th week of Daniel ended on April 6th, 32 AD, when Jesus first rode into Jerusalem on the foal of a donkey. As to when the 70th week begins that is debatable, some believe it continued right into it. Some of them believe the 70th week went on to completion at that time, some believe that half of the 70th week has passed, and many believe the entire 70th week was all future from that point. As far as the prophecy from Isaiah, what I am asking is for you to list out a sequence of events as you see them, and insert where you believe what Isaiah spoke of falls into that timeline. God bless

That does not align with the prophecy from Isaiah. Again, when does that prophecy take place according to you? Isaiah 11:10 In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples—of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious. 11 In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea. 12 He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. 13 The jealousy of Ephraim shall depart, and those who harass Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not be jealous of Judah, and Judah shall not harass Ephraim. Ephraim (the northern kingdom) and Judah (the southern kingdom) do not reunite until this point. The dispersed (going all the way back to the Assyrian invasion) are gathered at this time. God bless

This isn't quite accurate on the timing you state, just want to clarify. The first time Jesus ever allowed his apostles or the Jews to call Him King was the day He rode into Jerusalem on the foal of a donkey. This was Psalm Sunday, April 6, 32 A.D., exactly 173,880 days (69 weeks = 483 yrs x 360 days = 173,880 days) after the command to rebuild Jerusalem. God bless

It's actually not untenable or unprecedented. Consider Revelation chapter 12 verses 1-5, a historical depiction to lend understanding to the symbolic characters within the prophecy. I see that passage from Zechariah in the same fashion as there is no biblical support for the two kingdoms reuniting prior to the very end. God bless

Yes, but that is the point I am making about that passage. The dispersed from Assyria do not return prior to that, they are still lost at the point and time where we place that prophecy from Isaiah. That does not allow for them joining back together, splitting apart, and taking part of the end times scenario surrounding the beast and his kingdom. The only thing lost about the 10 tribes is their heritage to them, not to God. Now if what you are suggesting is that people from the surrounding nations that don't realize they are even of Jewish descent account for the 10 kings then that is the only scenario this makes sense. However, that still does not account for your scenario regarding the two staffs, because at no point prior to this prophecy are those two sisters (Ephraim and Judah) reunited in scripture. God bless