stormy612

My daughter is 12 years old, and her dad went to prison when she was 5 (almost 6) for molesting her. Being tender to her love for him, I have intentionally kept from her the reality of both prison and what I've heard they do to men who molest children. Even I find it hard to believe. It just hurts too much. So, can someone who is involved in prison ministry give me some advice about how to help her deal with this? I'm at a loss and I'm afraid she's going to start hearing things. I'd like to be honest with her and comforting at the same time, AND give her God's word about justice...oh! this is so hard to explain! I could also use some 'inside' info on what REALLY goes on in prison concerning this issue. Any help will be deeply appreciated!

I fear I can't shed much light for you on a biblical understanding. I only have my testimony. Early in my salvation, many hypocrisies were pointed out to me-the difference between what I was saying (preaching, teaching, learning of God) and how I was living my life. I was embarrassed when such things were pointed out but I knew it was chastizement (sp?)from my Lord. His desire is to bring me to perfection in Him so that His glory is revealed without spot or blemish. I can't always see me the way others do so I need others (through Jesus) to point out any hypocrisy in my life. As I have walked with Jesus, less has been pointed out to me. Not that there still isn't that in me, only I'm learning to line up what Jesus teaches me with how I walk. I think the 'elders' who are 'beyond reproach' have walked with Him long enough so that most of their walk does line up with all that Jesus has taught them, and thus the glory of God is revealed with less spots and less blemishes than it is with a baby Christian. None of us will obtain perfection on earth, but I strive to gain as much of it as I can while I'm here. In order to do that, I have to ask God to bring into the light those things in me that are hypocritical-a rather trying experience, but one that leads to a 'cleaner' more perfected revelation of God. I hope this helps.

When I came to salvation, I turned MY will over to Him, and received God's will in return. So it is no longer MY will but His be done. A verse God gave me early in my salvation (and one He keeps bringing me back to) is: (emphasis mine) Deuteronomy 9:4-6 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee. Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, doest thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that He may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiff-necked people. So, Satan has been given dominion over the earth (Adam turned over possession to him), and He has placed us here in order that He would drive the wickedness out of it then He gives it to us to possess. Jesus comes and provides salvation to our hearts and a new home-the Kingdom of God, thus we are strangers here now. My understanding is that we are to abide here, for a time, tending to God's will-that ALL should come to Him (as many as will) showing firm in our faith, while the Holy Spirit 'drives' wickedness out of the hearts of people through the salvation of Christ. And, after all is said and done, this earth will be destroyed and God will give us a new one. I am to be a good steward over that which I have been given by Him-my tiny apartment, my work, my money, my food, etc. All this serves two purposes through Him: 1) to provide sanctuary to those in need to reveal His goodness towards man 2) to drive wickedness out of the hearts of the lost through said provisions. Satan comes to kill, steal, and destroy. Jesus comes to give life and life abundantly. Please be gentle with me-I'm just an 8 year old babe in Christ and haven't as much learning as I would like yet. I hope what I mean is understood.

Sometimes, I pray just a general prayer-Father, open their eyes and hearts to You. Then there are those times when I try to seek out from God what He knows they need. If He reveals that to me, I then pray according to what He has revealed AND pray that He gives me the words to speak specifically to them. Jesus meets us where we are at, so I've gotta know where people are and then go there so God can speak to them. I've yet to have one person I've spoken to repent on the spot, but I do know when He's planted a seed in the good soil that is somewhere in them. After that, all I can do is continually pray that either I or someone else waters that seed, that God breathes life into the seed, and that I stand true as an example or proof that Jesus' salvation does what He says it does. Romans 1:20-21 - For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as Go, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. These verses go on to explain that people chose NOT to follow God, even though He's made His presence known, so He let them go as they willed. So, do I pray that their eyes and heart be open? Or do I pray that He works something in them to turn their will back to Him?

Thank you, Botz. I know I'm immature right now. I know I've got a whole lot of growing left to do. Right now, God seems to be teaching me a lot of things at once. It's confusing and overwhelming right now, but I know it'll all make sense once all the pieces are there. Pride is something He's been gently teaching me on since the get go, and I will always be learning about my pride. My extreme self-centeredness is part of it too (its part defensiveness and part rage turned outward). There's more too, but suffice it to say, I've been a very sad, a very angry, and very frightened person for a very long time. And then, six years ago, He brought me face to face with the most intense rage, the most intense terror, and the most intense sorrow I've ever had to deal with. And I broke. Everything in me broke. Everything I've ever believed was true about this world turned out to be true, and I couldn't run from it anymore. I have to face it now and stand firm (something I have never, ever done well.) And to be honest, I spend a great deal of my energy just trying to fight my flesh. To keep me from hurting others. I won't hurt others, but I am more than willing to hurt myself (not physically, but emotionally). I am so tired. People scare me, but I scare myself more. Coming here, to Worthy, was a chance for me to love people because His love is what heals. I see the sorrow in others and I want to make it go away as much as I want mine to go away. It was a big step for me. Staying has been an even bigger step. This place is helping me more than I can put into words, or that anyone can know. I don't know what else to say except, praise the Lord for you, and for everyone here. Carlos, thanks for letting me hijack your thread. Your post touched something in me too. I'm sorry I over did it.

I've never been in an 'old time church', but I know my grandmother grew up in one (she was the middle of 9 kids, raised in rural Tennessee on a real 'hands on' farm). She never 'preached' at me, and I don't recall her ever quoting the bible (except when we said "As I lay me down to sleep..." prayer every night we stayed with her), but I always felt loved, as in embraced, welcomed, wanted. Her whole family was like that (they didn't go around hugging on you or saying I love you, stuff like that). When I brought my daughter up to meet 2 of Grannie's sisters, I wanted to see if it was just me or if she felt it too. Sure enough, she said she just 'felt loved' from the minute she met them. And all they did was say 'well, come on in,' then turned to my dad and started talking to him. In fact, I don't think they said another word to her the whole time except to say goodbye. They made a real lasting impression on me AND my daughter. There is definately a special side of God in those small country churches; something that doesn't have to speak. I'd like to be a part that; I'd like to be around that. If I could, I could be warm even on the coldest of days.

Blessed be the ONE Holy Spirit that dwells within us all!

Ah LadyRaven, words cannot express how much your words mean to me in my walk with Jesus. Thank you. This is why I need all my brothers and sisters in Christ.

I'll echo what everyone has already said, and add my own. Talk with her first about why she does or says what she says. Don't judge her motives. In her mind, she may truly believe that what she does or says is right or justified. Find out why first, then go to God's word to either justify it or not. At the same time, she may know that what she is doing or saying or thinking or feeling is wrong or unjustified (based on God's word or her own conscious) but, because of previous judgements from others or even just hearing others 'high blown' attitudes about this or that, she may feel too insecure and thus defensive about admitting it. We all want to 'appear' righteous and we've all 'pretended' to believe or do something that we really don't jbelieve in just for appearances sake. Think of the people in the bible who were afraid to stand with Jesus for fear of being kicked out of the church. In digging a little deeper, you may discover that her heart is in the right place, but her actions are not. Provide her a very safe place in which to be really real, and let God convict her heart.

Forgive my lack of 'quotes'. There are just too many of them! Botz, I totally agree that I need the authority of the church. I need the accountability that comes from being part of a church, and I need the 'elders' (I'm not sure what constitutes an 'elder' though) wisdom. I know that I have been given the fullness of Christ through the Holy Spirit, but there is much wisdom I will never know because of the limited experiences of my earthly life (ex: I've never been a surgeon, or a military medic in the midst of war, or even a mother with a stillborn child). I need the variety of God's wisdom given to my brothers and sisters in Christ so that I may grow and so that all of us, through our various experiences, may grow. Well, I need it, but more so, God needs all of us to share the gospel with all the world. I am very aware of how 'whacky' I can get sometimes. Thank the Lord He won't let me get too far off course! He always manages to bring some one in with truth that humbles me. I remember once being really critical of a church filled with fairly wealthy members. With my eyes, all I saw was a bunch of people concerned more with their wealth and stature and competing with one another about who could give more than another. I'll never forget the Hand of conviction that covered my mouth that day. God made it clear to me, that one) I was using MY eyes to judge this church, and 2) He needed churches of this sort as a good, STABLE, garden in which to grow baby Christians, who would then go where God led them (how could He teach all of us, if we were all running around the world). He even reminded me of Paul who said (I can't quote, don't have my bible handy) that he didn't care so much about the motivation behind the preaching of the gospel, so much as the fact that gospel was being spread. Then He reminded me of Jesus when He got on to Peter for wanting to stop another man for preaching the gospel because he wasn't 'with them.' Because of this experience, I am really not so quick to judge a church or followers of Christ at all. Each is to serve God for His purpose. God told me once that when I go to church, I am to go in order that I might feed His sheep, not to be fed. He'll feed me, I can have no doubt about that, but my first concern is for His flock. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you"-'things' being His manna for me. This doesn't mean I go charging into a church 'preaching up a storm'. If I go to feed, I need Him to tell me who's 'hungry' for what it is that God has given me. I think that in some churches though, I do more feeding than I am fed. In others, I'm more fed than I do feed. No matter what though, my food comes from God, that which I feed with, and that which I am fed with. It is HIS voice I listen to and listen for. But how do you stand in the face of rejection like this? How did Jesus do it? He didn't stop teaching because of those who couldn't hear, because He knew there were those who would. And the prophets put up with all kinds of junk for the sake of those who would turn and repent. Looking at it like this though, then end of all of that was death, even unto the death at the cross. I guess my problem has always been living with the judgements of others. I want them to get past the 'me' that they see, and seek His voice through me. My parents, for example, will not let go of who I use to be, and therefore cannot believe that God is in me nor use me. To let go of my past and accept who I am now is far too frightening for them. I think, mixed in with that, is a touch of resentment towards God for using someone like me who, in their eyes, doesn't deserve His grace and mercy. Well, of course I don't deserve it. That's what makes God so great in my heart. That and a whole lot more. My pride rises up as well so this is a weakness I know all too well. With non-believers, like my dad, I can forgive because I know he's blind. Compassion comes easily. My step-mother, on the other hand, is a Christian and should know better but doesn't. That's where I really struggle. Instead of glorifying God for His changing me and seeing the breadth of His grace, there is jealousy (she's been going to church since birth) and resentment. I've been praying that God opens her heart to Him, that He use these bad things for her good. He even opened MY eyes to see some of her fears, her crutches, and because of that, I became that much more gentle with her, patient with her. I even took my 'hands off' of her for fear I'd push too hard too fast. I stepped back and now I'm letting God do the rest. He knows her better than I do, after all. So, most of the time, I feel alone in what God has given me. I know I'm not the only one with His truth, but I feel 'pushed out' a lot by other Christians. When I am with other Christians, I am always 'taught', as if, in there minds, I don't really know anything. I'm a child who is simply never going to grow up in there minds (Is this pride I'm dealing with?). How could they make God so small like that? How could they make light of His power like that? Is He not capable of turning one such as me around and finally making me a useful part of His ministry? I am not one more than another. What gifts I've been given are as much needed as the gifts of others. I need God in them, too. Carlos, I feel like you a lot of the time-saddened by the lack of effect God in my life is having on others. To me, it is far easier to speak to non-believers (who aren't belligerent) than it is other Christians. It just seems strange to me how I could have Him, His awesome wisdom, His glory, His everything, in me and it not be seen, felt or sensed right away. I mean, Moses was all lit up! How can others, especially Christians, not see it and know right away that God is with them through me? I've met people who seem to 'eminate' God with hardly a word- I feel His presence in them, and I'm drawn to them. You're on your way more so than I if others have noticed and will comment on the effect your peaceful happiness is having on them. I would love to have even one word of confirmation that people do sense God in me. How else can they know God? It isn't just His words I speak that will make Him known to others, its His presence in me-that...whatever it is He's got that draws me to Him. Okay, so I'm battling the flesh, mine and theirs. (God always has a funny way of teaching me while I teach!) How do ya'll deal with it?

But can't the 'attitude' of a person be a matter of perception? Those who are convicted of His truth are often seen as arrogant. And those who speak softly are often accused of being doubtful. Both are fully convinced, but are viewed by men as otherwise because of their perceptions (preconceived ideas, prejudices, etc.) But then, we are known by our fruits, aren't we?

Hi Botz, Can you explain this more to me? I'm something of a 'lone ranger', but not by choice. When I've been at church and spoken as God has led me, I am considered 'passionate for Christ' but somehow dismissed. I never know what they are thinking, but I seem to repel other Christians. I was even told once by a woman who I know has a personal relationship with Jesus that I am 'scary'. She said I needed to let others get to know me first, earn their trust, then I could say this or that. But I speak when God leads me, and sometimes that is right now, not after several years of earning trust ("The time is coming and now is"). I speak what God confirms in my spirit as truth (He always backs up His word with verses before I speak). And I am left with that great disappointment and heartache you referred to. I'm not gifted with healing or casting out demons (I may not be mature enough for that yet). Its too easy to say that they are the ones who aren't listening and sit back confident in what I know to be true, but because I am always seeking Him, I can't believe that I am always wrong either-especially when I know that I am speaking as I am led by Him. In the end, all I can do is speak as God leads me, and leave it to God to do what He intended. But I'm left with a body of believers who do NOT support me at all, or if they do, they pray that I may see the error of my ways. I am to live as God leads me, but when I do, I am 'cast out' by men. How does one reconcile that? Jesus has even given me words of comfort concerning this: "For those with ears to hear, let them hear", "One plants, another waters, but it is God who gives life to the seed," and others. Please understand, I'm not saying that I don't speak out of turn sometimes. When I do, God convicts me. But when I DO speak according to His guidance, I am NOT convicted, just heartbroken by the response of those He told me to speak too. I am not called to start a church or be a preacher but I am called to speak to the church. When I am dismissed or argued with, am I to believe that I am wrong every time and do as the church would have me do, and believe what they would have me believe? I can submit to the authority of a church (Peter submitted to Paul's authority even though Paul came AFTER him), but I cannnot and will not give myself over to their judgements of me. God holds me accountable and judges my actions alone. How am I to have a body of believers support me when they won't? Am I to be dismissed as a faith-filled Christian because I don't have this body of believers standing behind me? I'm not angry; I'm just trying to find the balance of standing true on God's word with not running off every Christian when I speak (like the lady who shut her ears against me because what I said was 'scary'-was it me that scared her, or was it God's word?). Carlos, I agree that sometimes it isn't our faith that comes into question, but the faith of those we are called to. Even Jesus couldn't perform many miracles in Nazareth because of their lack of faith. I also agree that it's difficult indeed to feed the 'fat ones', especially when that food can be as bitter as His truth sometimes is.

I was reading Revelation 13 one afternoon several years ago. I wasn't into interpreting it, I just wanted to read every book in the bible. One verse stood out in particular that day: verse 13. "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." It wasn't like in neon, like God gives me sometimes, it just stood out. So, my daughter interrupted my reading for about five minutes or so, and then I went back to it. I had TBN on at the time. As I sat down, I heard one preacher specifically say that he had received a vision from God that he would be able to call fire down from heaven. My blood went cold. To prove that his vision would come true, he began listing all these other visions God had given him and how all of them had come true. I never watched him before, but now I refuse to watch him because of that day. The timing was more than coincidence for me. God was in this that day. It was very much a warning to me. Is he the anti-christ? I really don't think so, but from that day until now, I've felt that the anti-christ will come from among the church. I'd rather not say who this preacher was for fear of the babes. He's very popular. I'll be glad to PM those who know more about this than I do, and let ya'll work with it. I only hear God's voice, but I don't always understand what He's saying. I figure its for a later time when I know more or have more experience than I do now.

Reticent I don't mind. I can respect that. I'm just concerned. I've felt like that for the last six years. I don't know if you've read any of my posts or not, so I may be repeating myself here, but bear with me. Six years ago, my husband molested my daughter. They suspected me of knowing about it, read me my Miranda rights, and gave me the third degree. I thought I was going to prison for something I didn't do. I was forced to face one of the worst fears I have (going to prison). I was terrified they would twist anything I said and to protect my daughter, they'd throw me in jail just to be on the safe side. I was upfront and honest and open about everything. But, all of it was out of my hands. I had to leave it to God, and I had go with whatever God willed. Even if that meant going to prison innocent. I can't even talk about it without tearing up it hurt so bad. My spirit laid prostrate before God begging Him not to send me to prison, not to let my daughter be without me. I honestly didn't know what He was going to do, but I knew I would follow Him no matter what- "Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life." I also knew deep, deep, deep in my spirit, that if God sent me to prison, there was a reason. I was humbled completely. I couldn't trust Him not send me to prison even though I was innocent (many Christians have been sent to prison innocent), and I couldn't trust Him to keep me free. I didn't know what He was going to do, all I could do was have faith that He would cover me, that He knew what He was doing even though I didn't. All I had at that time was faith and terror. Faith won out. My love for Him won out. I submitted to Him and said, "Lord, your will be done." I gave myself completely to Him to do with what He will-even if it meant death in prison. I've never been the same since. Something in my flesh died that day. For the first time in my life I knew what it was to give myself completely over to Him-complete and total humility. I also saw GOD AS GOD for the first time too. Up until then, He'd been my gentle, loving, Father. He revealed His total and complete sovereignty to me: His sovereignty over my life, and His sovereignty over the actions of this world and evil. It was a mixture of fear, awe, and security. It was THE most powerful revelation of GOD I've had to date. Most Christians might find it strange to think that my joy in life vanished, but it did. Like you, I would have brief moments of 'happiness', then it would disappear. The colors of life became very gray. Nothing held any interest for me anymore, and everything was pointless-every pursuit, every thought, every plan. I was God's, to do with as He willed, not me. I still can't find happiness in things of this world like I use to. For me, it's about the moment of something. In Ecclesiates, God said that it is He that gives us the gift to enjoy our 'things', our work, our life. So now, if I can find enjoyment (happiness) in something, however briefly, I praise Him for that gift of enjoyment. Any joy (peace) I now feel, for any length of time, is in God alone. Who He is. But it is also mixed with fear (deep, deep, deep respect). He didn't send me to prison that day, but I am His. I don't know where He will send me. Who am I to beg Him to spare me the life my Savior walked for me? My joy is in knowing God is here. My joy is in knowing who He is. My joy is in knowing His almighty power. My joy is in knowing His sovereignty. It's not a 'happy, happy, joy, joy' kind. Its...peace. His peace. Having that peace is what I cherish now. Sometimes I forget His peace, and I become terrified or depressed again. Sometimes He lets me stay that way for awhile, waiting for me to remember. But He always comes to me again and puts my heart at ease. My joy is not what it was. It's in Him alone now. God took from me the 'worldly joy' and replaced it with true joy-Him. And its taken six years for me to understand it all. I'm still learning too. But I am His now. I will never leave Him or forsake Him now, either. No matter what the cost. It was worth dying to something to have Him as I do now. I love Him.

So, how are you doing? No offense, but trying to get you to talk is like pulling teeth! Tell me what you like to do, anything. Or, if you'd prefer PM'ing, I can do that too. Hope your doing okay!

Since I've come to know Jesus, I've discovered what real love is. Looking back at my life before Him, all I can see is ME wanting something from anyone. And I'd do just about anything to get it. They could say or do anything, and I'd practically fall down and worship them just because they paid attention to me. Because of that, I had a lot of people take advantage of my 'neediness'. It attracted a lot of bad people in my life. I did a lot of bad things under their influence (my need to impress them), and they burned me in the end anyways. For example, one of my sins were those 'little white lies' and the occasional 'bigger lie'. Because I was a liar, I attracted other liars into my life. Our 'relationship' was based on blackmail-if you tell on me, I'll tell on you. That wasn't love, but because they were there, I did call it love. Once Jesus showed me why lying was wrong, I started telling the truth. I was ashamed of my lies, but having them exposed was part of the consequence. I didn't think much past the embarrassment but I was determined to stop lying. But God had a surprise for me that I was going to discover. When I started being honest, I started to see the lies others were telling me. My vision cleared. I could see what our relationship was based on, and it wasn't love. Things grew uncomfortable and confusing and depressing for a while. They couldn't hack being around someone they couldn't trust to keep their lies secret and they couldn't stand being around someone who somehow knew they were lying. So, they all left one by one (some faster than others). By being honest, God cleared the lies and liars out of my life. The people I'm around everyday don't notice me much, but they aren't liars either. Liars just don't 'stick' anymore. So God put a hedge around me that keeps liars away. And all because He taught me how to be honest like He is. Its the same with God's love. When you live in God's love, when you love people the way God wants us to, it has this effect of opening our eyes to what's really going on (I was blind but now I see). Those who don't really love us start to feel uncomfortable and they move away. To us, it feels like rejection and abandonment. But it's really God cleaning out your life of bad influences. Let them go. If you don't let that get to you, if you take advantage of that alone time with God to learn what His love is and you keep looking for Him, you'll see the people God is bringing into your life that will love you with God's love. And it'll be the pure love you're looking for, not the kind that's based on what you do or don't do for someone. You won't constantly be asking 'what did I do wrong?' And to prove my point, you've got us here, right? God's reaching out to you. He's brought us to you, as much as He's led you to us. And since you have God's love in you, you have special wisdom to offer us too. I can't help everybody, but with my brothers and sisters in Christ, everybody can be helped. Sorry about the quotes. It's something I do when I'm feeling down or bored. Thought it might help.

I make people do this: then this : then this: then this: then this: and finally this: What that is? I don't know. Hopefully, it leads to this:

I collect quotes. Things I've read that better express how I feel. I feel alone A LOT. Here I find I am not as alone I have believed: Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. "Yet even that enemy of God and man had friends and associates in his desolation; I am alone." This is the monster talking. Joseph Conrad's The Heart of Darkness : ""Do you see him? Do you see the story? Do you see anything? It seems to me I am trying to tell you a dream-making a vain attempt, because no relation of a dream can convey the dream-sensation, that co-mingling of absurdity, surprise, and bewilderment in a tremor of struggling revolt, that notion of being captured by the incredible which is of the very essence of dreams..." He was silent for awhile. "...No, it is impossible; it is impossible to convey the life-sensation of any given epoch of one's existence-that which makes its truth, its meaning-its subtle and penetrating essence. It is impossible. We live, as we dream-alone." Joseph Conrad's The Heart of Darkness: "...They were conquerors, and for that you want only brute force-nothing to boast of when you have it, since your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others." Henry David Thoreau's Walden: "Nature is as adapted to our weakness as to our strength."- When I am weak, I am pounded into mush. When I am strong, there raises up an army to fight me. These bring me comfort: Bertrand Russell's Portraits From Memory- "Knowledge and Wisdom" : "The essence of wisdom is emanicipation, as far as possible, from the tyranny of the here and now." Rebecca Cox Jackson's Gifts of Power- "The Dream of the Cakes" : "And I woke in the morning. And I told my dream. My dreams became a burden to my family. I shall only mention a few of them in this writing in order to show how it pleased God, in His wisdom, to lead a poor, unlearned, ignorant woman without the aid of mortal." ""But this battle is quiet. There are no pounding hooves, just the cry of the wounded. And my opponents are death and misery," said Jack. "You are the angel, Jack, and your steed is love. Love is quiet. Its victory silences their cries," Terrin whispered." These make me laugh: Fyodor Dostoyevsky's Notes From the Underground: "Can a man of perception respect himself at all?" John Ciardi (source unknown): "Who could believe an ant in theory? A giraffe in blueprint? Ten thousand doctors of what's possible could reason half the jungle out of being." And this one brings me back to that place of balance: Julian Of Norwich's A Book of Showings: "From this is follows that as truely as God is our Father, so truly is God our mother. Our Father wills, our Mother works, our good Lord, the Holy Spirit, confirms. And therefore it is our part to loveour God in whom we have our being, reverently thanking and praising him for our creation, mightly praying to our Mother for mercy and pity, and to our Lord, the Holy Spirit for help and grace." "But often when our falling and our wrtchedness are shown to us, we ar so much afraid and so greatly ashamed of ourselves that we scarcely know where we can put ourselves. But then our courteous Mothe does not wish us to fell away, for nothing would be less pleasing to Him; but He then wants us to behave like a child. For when it is distressed and frightened it runs quickly to it Mother, and if it can do no more, it calls to Mother with all its might. So He wants us to act as a meek child, saying: my kind Mother, my gracious Mother, my beloved Mother, have mercy on me. I have made myself filthy and unlike you, and I may not and cannot make it right except with your help and grace." David, we all possesed a form of love, an understanding of a love that is not of God. That is the love that this world seems to dangle in front of us like the proverbial carrot. You have to ask yourself if you REALLY want the love this world has to offer, or the love God offers us freely through Jesus Christ. If you choose God's love, then you will be filled with God (God is love), loving others as He loves you. You will then find yourself repelling those who cannot love as He loves, and drawing to you those who can. You're hardly wretched, David. Your just rejecting that empty 'love' the world keeps trying to shove down your throat and seeking for the REAL love that fills us up. Yes, you're lonely, but this is your special time with God, for Him to fill you with HIS love. You have to get rid of the 'worldly love' that's in you. Don't waste time trying to puzzle out the love of this world. It's a serious waste of God's time and yours.

I know the feeling. It's only been here at Worthy that I've found others who hear God talking to them, and in many different ways. I feel truly blessed to hear His voice, as I'm sure you do. And I too feel sad when others reject God because they see me, not Him. Sometimes I want them to see me, but when they need to see God and don't? I don't know what to do. I'm not a brave person at all, and I'm not argumenative (sp?), so why God chose me, this timid little mouse, to be His voice sometimes, I'll never know. I had someone here tell me in a PM, that sometimes, all we're doing is giving them no excuse. They were told and it was their choice to listen or not. The moment they said that, God brought to my mind Romans 1, so He confirmed it in my spirit. Be that as it may, the sorrow for those who don't listen continues. God gives life to the seed, though, so I trust that someone received a seed; they just need time. Keep praying for your pastor. And keep asking Him what you need to do. I wish I could help more, but I'll be praying for you.

You're right Iryssa-I certainly don't want to burden my daughter that way, or any way. And Mr&Mrs MikeIrish-I'm like you.I'll keep working, no matter what. It's just tough to balance living in the here and now, with planning for a future I can't know and then trusting my plan for the future to work out. God does know my future, so I trust in Him. God has been asking me a lot of questions about the 'worldly wisdom' I've been taught to believe as true my whole life. He's challenging me to find His truth in the various 'truths' I've been taught by man. I'm an American by my first birth, so I've been raised to believe in the American truths, values, and way of life. Since my second birth, I'm a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven and I live according to the truths, values, and Jesus' way of life. And not all that I've been taught as an American lines up with what I'm learning about being God's daughter. I really want to become holy like God and separate myself from the world as He is. I want to be in the world as Jesus was when He was here. For example, in America, voting is our right and our privilage. We are taught to cherish this right. In other countries, there is no voting at all so these people have no opportunity to change their circumstances via this method. God's way of effecting change must transcend the many governments. He simply will not be limited by the ways and means of man. The Gospel is His way of effecting change. And we, as Christians, bring His Gospel to those in all our various jobs, volunteer activities, etc. But it isn't just words we speak, it's howwe live. So, I'm learning how to line up how I live with His Gospel. There are many things I'm now questioning. Saving money is just one of them. So, I guess I'm digging to get at the root of what I've been taught about saving money. Is this Godly wisdom taught to man, or this worldy wisdom passed off as Godly wisdom?

These are some verses Jesus led me to: the first verse is the first one He led me to. The rest are not in any order. When I read them I keep hearing God say, "If you will give me your everything, I will be faithful for your everything" Luke 12: 13-21 13 And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. 14 And He said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you? 15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man

If you have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, how are you apart from God? You are apart from heaven, our home, that peaceful place we call home, but you are never apart from God. He is in you, and in us, and in His Word that you carry with you in the bible, and His word that you carry in your heart. That makes Him everywhere you go. How hard are you looking for Him? Where are you looking for Him? Take captive this thought and start searching for Him-"Seek and ye shall find."

My problem with worry is that my flesh screams so darn loud! And non-stop. Fear shows up first (I'm never going to make it through this!) Then fretting comes. When its done fretting (what if?! what if?!), it starts whining (but God! You said....!). When it's done with that, it turns to complaining (I hate my life!), that turns to self-righteous anger (I SO totally do NOT deserve this!), then it plots (A-Ha! If I do this then...). Fretting returns to destroy the plotting (yeh, that might work, but what if?). After a battle between those two, guilt shows up (did I cause this? How?), then Satan makes his appearance (of COURSE you caused it!) then, it just plunks down defeated and cries (why me?). When it's cried all it can, my spirit can finally hear God's whisper (shhhh....and remember what I've taught you...) Ahhhh....peace. Then my spirit starts eating His heavenly manna and gets prepared by putting on the armor of God. Now, if I could find that perfect flesh shutter-upper, I could make far better use of that wasted time!

What does God say about saving for retirement? What wisdom has God has given you concerning this? I'm kind of 'on the fence' about this.