Is OSAS true

[Ovedya]

In the Greek it means "to have a delightful purpose" It's a call to the saved, not the unsaved. This is not evidence of "free will."

This kind of statement is exactly why I started the thread about people refusing to believe God's word.

I believe it just as I understanding it. The same way that you believe it that you understand it.

[Ovedya]

Is the call to salvation the same for everyone? Yes

Was Saul/Paul's call to salvation the same as yours?

Was I knock off a horse ion my way to Damascus? No, however we were both called and we both had an equal opportunity to heed or reject it.

Where is it written in the Bible that Paul had a choice? In His discourse to Paul when did Jesus give him the option of saying no?

[godrulz]

Open Theism/free will theism/Arminianism tends to reject OSAS because of libertarian free will and the stern warnings in Scripture about the possibility of falling away/apostasy. We also fully affirm the security of believer passages, but they have a conditional element in the larger context.

Time is not a created thing. The unique measure of time (sun, moon, stars) was created with the universe, but this should not be confused with time itself (sequence, succession, duration), even experienced by the triune God before creation. Timelessness is not the best understanding of eternity. Endless time (Rev. 1:4; Ps. 90:2; Ps. 102:27) is more coherent and biblical without placing limitations on God (He is omnipotent and omnipresent, unlike us).

[OneLight]

I agree that the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins, and I accepted Christ as my Savior as a result. But be not confused, I also have the ability to choose whether or not I harden my heart to Him, even though this will never be my choice, as I foresee it. Yes, the Holy Spirit would continue to convict me of my sin until the day I die, if I did turn away. This is not the question. though, is it. The question is if I can turn from Him or not turn. Do not forget that He gave us the ability to choose which path we are to walk down.

Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Phil 2:13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose

I believe that if the Holy Spirit has the power to move me to the point of accecpting Jesus it also has the power to keep me from moving backwards

Yes, I agree, but that does not mean that we will be unwilling puppets. God is more then able and willing to work in those who are willing to accept Him. Nowhere in scripture does it say that He will work in the lives of the unwilling. As man once hardened their heart towards God, so are we capable of doing the same. I believe that man is brought back to where he was before turning from God in the Garden of Eden, walking with God daily, this time spiritually. Adam was created as a being with a choice, and so are we.

[Ovedya]

Is the call to salvation the same for everyone? Yes

Was Saul/Paul's call to salvation the same as yours?

Was I knock off a horse ion my way to Damascus? No, however we were both called and we both had an equal opportunity to heed or reject it.

Where is it written in the Bible that Paul had a choice? In His discourse to Paul when did Jesus give him the option of saying no?

You are joking right? Oh yeah your not joking your calvinist,

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision

Why would Paul take the time to tell King Agrippa that he was not disobedient to his heavenly calling if he could not have chosen to disobey?

His statement was related to verse 18 "To open their eyes, to turn them from darkness to light and from the authority of Satan to God..." Paul was saying that he wasn't disobedient to that vision. That is further evidenced in verse 20 "But declared both to those in Damascus first and in Jerusalem and throughout all the country of Judea..." There is no evidence that Paul had the choice of turning away from his appointment (vs. 16).

[Ovedya]

Open Theism/free will theism/Arminianism tends to reject OSAS because of libertarian free will and the stern warnings in Scripture about the possibility of falling away/apostasy. We also fully affirm the security of believer passages, but they have a conditional element in the larger context.

Time is not a created thing. The unique measure of time (sun, moon, stars) was created with the universe, but this should not be confused with time itself (sequence, succession, duration), even experienced by the triune God before creation. Timelessness is not the best understanding of eternity. Endless time (Rev. 1:4; Ps. 90:2; Ps. 102:27) is more coherent and biblical without placing limitations on God (He is omnipotent and omnipresent, unlike us).

Anything that can be experienced is a created thing. Time is experienced, therefore it is a created thing. Regardless of a view which states that time was the natural result of creation, it is a thing created.

[Ovedya]

The unique measure of time (sun, moon, stars) was created with the universe, but this should not be confused with time itself (sequence, succession, duration), even experienced by the triune God before creation.

Time is only measured by the orbit/rotation of the earth around the sun. It is measured by the frequency of certain materials. Time itself is not those things. Time was created at the moment of creation and extends to the end of creation. It therefore extends from creation, from God, to eternity future - to God. God even describes Himself in terms of time: "I am the beginning and the end." This is God's ever-presence from eternity past to eternity future.

[larryt]

Is the call to salvation the same for everyone? Yes

Was Saul/Paul's call to salvation the same as yours?

Was I knock off a horse ion my way to Damascus? No, however we were both called and we both had an equal opportunity to heed or reject it.

Where does it say Paul was knocked off a horse? Answer: NOWHERE.

Your pride in thinking you have THE right understanding of the scriptures shines through. The more I find out about the God of the bible the more I fine I don't know.

LT

[Ovedya]

Where does it say Paul was knocked off a horse? Answer: NOWHERE.

Actually that's true. In Acts 9 it does not mention that Paul was riding a horse. It only says that he fell to the ground. Then in Acts 26 when he's testifying of this experience to king Agrippa he says that he and the others who were with him fell to the ground. "Fell to the ground" is a typical expression in the Bible meaning that the persons who did so literally threw themselves to the ground as if they had fallen.

Where the idea came from that Paul was knocked off a horse I don't know.

[Ovedya]

The Bible does not describe "time" before creation, only after creation.

In Micah 5:2 it says of the prophesied ruler of Israel (who we know is Jesus), that His "goings forth are from ancient times (From the days of eternity)." Some translations read "from everlasting" or "from ancient days." Actually the Hebrew means "from days upon days, upon days, etc., past" In other words "endless time." The word "mowtsa'ah" (goings forth) means "place of origin" It's root "mowtsa'" means "going forth, a place of departure, or the source from which you came (such as a spring has a source from which it comes forth)."

So this verses says that Jesus' origin is from eternity, or, "un-numbered days," in other words "without beginning." However, we know that time, as we know it, had a beginning. So when John described Jesus He used the term, "...in the beginning." So Jesus' existence pre-existed time. As such, it would have been impossible for Him to have been limited by time before "the beginning."