Lessons I learned from George at Pesach service

[nebula]

I just attended a Pesach (Passover) Seder celebration led by George and Rivka.

Although I had already learned several correlations between the celebration and the prophetic fulfillment, George offered some really cool insight I had neither heard nor considered before.

Unfortunately, I can't remember all the points I wanted to remember.

Anyway, here's what I remember.

~~

What I knew before:

Rabbis have puzzled forever over the Messianic prophecies because they paint a picture of two different Messiahs: Messiah ben David (the Conquering King) and Messiah ben Joseph (the Suffering Servant). That is, the prophecies concerning the Messiah who will deliver and restore Israel is the Son of King David; the prophecies concerning Messiah who will bear the sin of the people (i.e. Isaiah 53) is the Son of Joseph (Jacob's 11th son). Although they developed two primary interpretations of this, the one they have not considered is that one Man is both, just coming at two different times.

What I didn't know:

Joseph was rejected by his brothers, sold into slavery, was betrayed, and was thrown into prison, but once released he became the second highest ruler in all Egypt - but he was not recognized by his brothers. (OK, I did know this, it's what was revealed afterward that was new to me.) They did not recognize him because he looked so Egyptian - hair, clothes, make-up, etc. - all Semitic features were hidden from them.

In the same way Yeshua (Jesus) - who endured the suffering on Earth and is now raised in glory, etc. - is not recognizable to His brethren, His people (the Jews), because He looks so Gentile - He does not look like a Jew to them.

Interesting point!

~~~

What I knew before:

The homes need to be cleaned from all leaven the day or evening before Passover. (Since most women keep their homes clean, the woman of the house traditionally places a piece of bread somewhere for the ceremonial cleansing.) The father of the house will inspect the home and the children following with candles to lighten the dark places. When the leavened bread piece is found, the father will sweep the bread away with a large feather onto a wooden spoon. Later, the feather, the spoon, and the leavened bread are all burned up together.

Now leaven represents sin, the candles represent the Light of God searching our hearts.

What I didn't know:

Sin is not removed from our lives through anger, beating us over the head, condemning, criticizing, . . . you know, all the ways we react to others' and our own sin that we can't seem to get rid of.

No! It is the feather, the Holy Spirit, who gently brushes away our sin onto the Cross (the wooden spoon), and completely eliminates it.

Pretty neat, huh?

~~~

What I knew before:

At what we call "The Last Supper" (which was the Jewish Passover, Pesach), Jesus and His disciples did not sit at a rectangular table, but reclined on the floor with big pillows and a low-level table that was most likely in a U shape.

What I didn't know before:

George asked us how many people were probably at that Pesach? I was thinking at least the 12 disciples, but there were probably some of the woman who followed His ministry with them as well.

George gave a surprising answer.

Passover was a family meal. It would not be unreasonable to assume, and was probably more likely, that Jesus' family, and possibly the families of the disciples, were there as well.

Another note: at the Passover meal, the "Father" and the "Mother" have different roles to play during the service.

Now this is where my memory is fuzzy, but there was a point George made about the role of the mother in Passover, that takes on a whole new meaning with Jesus' mother Mary performing that role . . .

It wasn't the breaking of the middle Matzah, because that is a tradition that began a couple centuries later. But it was something that symbolizes Jesus death. I wish I could remember what George had said with this. Argh!

~~~~

What I knew before:

The breaking of the middle matzah.

There are 3 matzah in a special bag. The middle matzah is broken in half. One half is put back in the middle slot. The other half is wrapped and hidden. Later, the children will search for the matzah and return it.

Although I have heard Jews interpret these as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, with the Isaac matzah being broken to represent Abraham's sacrifice of him on the altar; I have known Christians to interpret the symbolism as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with Jesus being broken in death, buried, and resurrected.

What I didn't know:

As I mentioned, this tradition began in the second(?) century, I believe he said. The origin of the tradition is unclear. While most interpret the 3 matzahs to represent the 3 Patriarchs, some interpret them to be the Priests, the Levites and the People.

George believes it may have been Jewish believers who incorporated the tradition - because these represent the Triune God, with Jesus being broken, buried and hidden, and then brought back.

When the child who finds the Matzah brings it back, the child will ask for, "Money!" - because the gift requires being brought back at a price. The child is given a prize or a coin in exchange for the Matzah.

"We are bought with a price."

~~~

A mixture of what I knew before and what I didn't know:

On the 10th day of the month Nisan, the Passover Lamb is chosen.

This was the day Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. Without realizing it, the people were chosing their Passover Lamb.

For the next few days, the Passover Lamb is inspected by the Priests.

For the next few days, Jesus was at the Temple being grilled by the Pharisees et al with tough questions. Eventually, they could not ask Him any more questions. (He had passed inspection.)

On the 14th of Nisan at 3pm, the Passover Lamb was slain.

Jesus died on the cross at 3pm on the 14th of Nisan.

The day Jesus rose from the dead was the Feast of Firstfruits.

Continuing that thought. . .

What we call Pentecost is the Jewish Feast of Weeks. This was the day the Jews celebrate the giving of the Law.

Going back to Exodus when Moses first came down with the 2 stone tablets containing the 10 Commandments, because the people had sinned by creating the golden calf while Moses was on the mountain for 40 days, they were punished by those faithful to the Lord (the Levites) slaying members of the assembly.

Ex. 32:28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.

On the day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Wild, huh?

~~~~

There were other cool things we learned, but those are the ones that stick out the most to me.

I hope you were blessed by my re-telling.

[Guest]

[mizzdy]

The biblical feasts are so beautiful in all their meanings!

At what we call "The Last Supper" (which was the Jewish Passover, Pesach), Jesus and His disciples did not sit at a rectangular table, but reclined on the floor with big pillows and a low-level table that was most likely in a U shape.

What I didn't know before:

George asked us how many people were probably at that Pesach? I was thinking at least the 12 disciples, but there were probably some of the woman who followed His ministry with them as well.

George gave a surprising answer.

Passover was a family meal. It would not be unreasonable to assume, and was probably more likely, that Jesus' family, and possibly the families of the disciples, were there as well.

This was one of my favorite insights I gardnered when looking into the biblical feasts. To know that Christ layed around with His family enjoying the meal and fellowship is awesome to know, kinda gives another extra added diminsion to Him.

[Botz]

Really interesting Nebula, and a lovely insight into more of the significance of Pesach...should make all of us Gentiles a little envious that we have lost the tradition of this great feast. Maybe you could persuade George to place the full account up on Worthy, so you can see the bits you forgot, and we can see everything.

[Guest HIS girl]

Question.

Why does Jesus look Gentile to the Jews?

Do you mean because of how Western Christianity has evolved and how far removed it has become from the original "movement"? The face of Christianity today is largely Western?

Or because of the Gentile embrace of Christianity and He has blended into it - lost His Jewishness so to speak?

Or is it something entirely different?

[nebula]

Why does Jesus look Gentile to the Jews?

Do you mean because of how Western Christianity has evolved and how far removed it has become from the original "movement"? The face of Christianity today is largely Western?

I would say yes to this.

Or because of the Gentile embrace of Christianity and He has blended into it - lost His Jewishness so to speak?

I would say to this.

Why would Jesus ever change?

Or is it something entirely different?

By the second or third centuries, the leaders of the church stripped away all Jewish elements of the faith.

That reminds me of something else George mentioned. Again, I can't remember the direct quote well enough to recount it, but I believe he referred to how the majority of the Jews did not recognize Jesus when He first came because He didn't look like the Messiah they were expecting (I know I'm not wording this right, and I'm not even sure this is what he had said) -

BUT, when He comes again, how many Christians will not recognize Him because He looks too Jewish?

[Guest]

......BUT, when He comes again, how many Christians will not recognize Him because He looks too Jewish?

There Is A Scripture That Just Breaks My Heart

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart. Zechariah 12:10-14

And Fills Me With Joy Overflowing

In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Zechariah 12:8-9

God Is Faithful!

[Believer1997]

I just attended a Pesach (Passover) Seder celebration led by George and Rivka.

Although I had already learned several correlations between the celebration and the prophetic fulfillment, George offered some really cool insight I had neither heard nor considered before.

Unfortunately, I can't remember all the points I wanted to remember.

Anyway, here's what I remember.

~~

What I knew before:

Rabbis have puzzled forever over the Messianic prophecies because they paint a picture of two different Messiahs: Messiah ben David (the Conquering King) and Messiah ben Joseph (the Suffering Servant). That is, the prophecies concerning the Messiah who will deliver and restore Israel is the Son of King David; the prophecies concerning Messiah who will bear the sin of the people (i.e. Isaiah 53) is the Son of Joseph (Jacob's 11th son). Although they developed two primary interpretations of this, the one they have not considered is that one Man is both, just coming at two different times.

What I didn't know:

Joseph was rejected by his brothers, sold into slavery, was betrayed, and was thrown into prison, but once released he became the second highest ruler in all Egypt - but he was not recognized by his brothers. (OK, I did know this, it's what was revealed afterward that was new to me.) They did not recognize him because he looked so Egyptian - hair, clothes, make-up, etc. - all Semitic features were hidden from them.

In the same way Yeshua (Jesus) - who endured the suffering on Earth and is now raised in glory, etc. - is not recognizable to His brethren, His people (the Jews), because He looks so Gentile - He does not look like a Jew to them.

Interesting point!

~~~

What I knew before:

The homes need to be cleaned from all leaven the day or evening before Passover. (Since most women keep their homes clean, the woman of the house traditionally places a piece of bread somewhere for the ceremonial cleansing.) The father of the house will inspect the home and the children following with candles to lighten the dark places. When the leavened bread piece is found, the father will sweep the bread away with a large feather onto a wooden spoon. Later, the feather, the spoon, and the leavened bread are all burned up together.

Now leaven represents sin, the candles represent the Light of God searching our hearts.

What I didn't know:

Sin is not removed from our lives through anger, beating us over the head, condemning, criticizing, . . . you know, all the ways we react to others' and our own sin that we can't seem to get rid of.

No! It is the feather, the Holy Spirit, who gently brushes away our sin onto the Cross (the wooden spoon), and completely eliminates it.

Pretty neat, huh?

~~~

What I knew before:

At what we call "The Last Supper" (which was the Jewish Passover, Pesach), Jesus and His disciples did not sit at a rectangular table, but reclined on the floor with big pillows and a low-level table that was most likely in a U shape.

What I didn't know before:

George asked us how many people were probably at that Pesach? I was thinking at least the 12 disciples, but there were probably some of the woman who followed His ministry with them as well.

George gave a surprising answer.

Passover was a family meal. It would not be unreasonable to assume, and was probably more likely, that Jesus' family, and possibly the families of the disciples, were there as well.

Another note: at the Passover meal, the "Father" and the "Mother" have different roles to play during the service.

Now this is where my memory is fuzzy, but there was a point George made about the role of the mother in Passover, that takes on a whole new meaning with Jesus' mother Mary performing that role . . .

It wasn't the breaking of the middle Matzah, because that is a tradition that began a couple centuries later. But it was something that symbolizes Jesus death. I wish I could remember what George had said with this. Argh!

~~~~

What I knew before:

The breaking of the middle matzah.

There are 3 matzah in a special bag. The middle matzah is broken in half. One half is put back in the middle slot. The other half is wrapped and hidden. Later, the children will search for the matzah and return it.

Although I have heard Jews interpret these as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, with the Isaac matzah being broken to represent Abraham's sacrifice of him on the altar; I have known Christians to interpret the symbolism as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with Jesus being broken in death, buried, and resurrected.

What I didn't know:

As I mentioned, this tradition began in the second(?) century, I believe he said. The origin of the tradition is unclear. While most interpret the 3 matzahs to represent the 3 Patriarchs, some interpret them to be the Priests, the Levites and the People.

George believes it may have been Jewish believers who incorporated the tradition - because these represent the Triune God, with Jesus being broken, buried and hidden, and then brought back.

When the child who finds the Matzah brings it back, the child will ask for, "Money!" - because the gift requires being brought back at a price. The child is given a prize or a coin in exchange for the Matzah.

"We are bought with a price."

~~~

A mixture of what I knew before and what I didn't know:

On the 10th day of the month Nisan, the Passover Lamb is chosen.

This was the day Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. Without realizing it, the people were chosing their Passover Lamb.

For the next few days, the Passover Lamb is inspected by the Priests.

For the next few days, Jesus was at the Temple being grilled by the Pharisees et al with tough questions. Eventually, they could not ask Him any more questions. (He had passed inspection.)

On the 14th of Nisan at 3pm, the Passover Lamb was slain.

Jesus died on the cross at 3pm on the 14th of Nisan.

The day Jesus rose from the dead was the Feast of Firstfruits.

Continuing that thought. . .

What we call Pentecost is the Jewish Feast of Weeks. This was the day the Jews celebrate the giving of the Law.

Going back to Exodus when Moses first came down with the 2 stone tablets containing the 10 Commandments, because the people had sinned by creating the golden calf while Moses was on the mountain for 40 days, they were punished by those faithful to the Lord (the Levites) slaying members of the assembly.

Ex. 32:28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.

On the day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Wild, huh?

~~~~

There were other cool things we learned, but those are the ones that stick out the most to me.

I hope you were blessed by my re-telling.

Your comments were a blessing - I did not know many of these details either. I would love to meet George or hear him speak. Thanks Nebula!

[Guest HIS girl]

'nebula'

HIS girl - Or because of the Gentile embrace of Christianity and He has blended into it - lost His Jewishness so to speak?

nebula - I would say to this.

Why would Jesus ever change?

I didn't explain it properly!! I meant the Gentile Christian community changing the "look" of Jesus/Christianity to suit them - a more user friendly type of Christianity...that's all.

I love the wooden spoon and feather/Holy Spirit - beautiful!

[nebula]

'nebula'

HIS girl - Or because of the Gentile embrace of Christianity and He has blended into it - lost His Jewishness so to speak?

nebula - I would say to this.

Why would Jesus ever change?

I didn't explain it properly!! I meant the Gentile Christian community changing the "look" of Jesus/Christianity to suit them - a more user friendly type of Christianity...that's all.

Oh, OK!

Umm . . . how is that different from the first question then? Isn't it the same thing asked a different way?