Bacteria Amaze

[Gauntlet]

Creation is more sophisticated than creationists give God credit for.

I tend to agree.

[The Lorax]

God created the universe in a single instant which scientists called the Big Bang. He set the natural processes in motion knowing exactly where they would lead, because the natural word behaves according to physical laws God created. The universe is a dynamic PROCESS, not an stationary OBJECT. To say God is "shaping and forming" things in the evolutionary process is like saying cars move because mechanics push them down the road.

Creation is more sophisticated than creationists give God credit for.

Do you even read the Bible, or do just pull your beliefs about God out of the air?

The problem here is that your view runs crosswise with the biblical record which is both inspired by God and is infallible/inerrant.

Evolution at its core is an unplanned, unguided, impersonal, entirely natural process. At least, that is how the major proponents of Evolution define it. The appeal of evolution to many people is that it completely factors God out of the origin of universe.

In the Bible, Creation is guided from the beginning to the end. It does not present God as simply starting the processes and then letting nature take its course.

The Bible presents God as making all thing according to His purpose, design and pleasure and He makes them according to their own kind. Furthermore, the Bible presents man as a special creation, distinct from rest of created order. Man is made after God's image and placed over the rest of created order by God. This flies in the face of what evolutionists teach.

Evolution cannot be reconciled with the Biblical account without destroying the authority of the Bible as the final arbiter in all matters of Christian faith and practice. Evolution and the Bible are mutually exclusive.

The Bible isn't a science textbook. If you see it that way, that's too bad.

[Guest shiloh357]

God created the universe in a single instant which scientists called the Big Bang. He set the natural processes in motion knowing exactly where they would lead, because the natural word behaves according to physical laws God created. The universe is a dynamic PROCESS, not an stationary OBJECT. To say God is "shaping and forming" things in the evolutionary process is like saying cars move because mechanics push them down the road.

Creation is more sophisticated than creationists give God credit for.

Do you even read the Bible, or do just pull your beliefs about God out of the air?

The problem here is that your view runs crosswise with the biblical record which is both inspired by God and is infallible/inerrant.

Evolution at its core is an unplanned, unguided, impersonal, entirely natural process. At least, that is how the major proponents of Evolution define it. The appeal of evolution to many people is that it completely factors God out of the origin of universe.

In the Bible, Creation is guided from the beginning to the end. It does not present God as simply starting the processes and then letting nature take its course.

The Bible presents God as making all thing according to His purpose, design and pleasure and He makes them according to their own kind. Furthermore, the Bible presents man as a special creation, distinct from rest of created order. Man is made after God's image and placed over the rest of created order by God. This flies in the face of what evolutionists teach.

Evolution cannot be reconciled with the Biblical account without destroying the authority of the Bible as the final arbiter in all matters of Christian faith and practice. Evolution and the Bible are mutually exclusive.

So you can't reconcile God with science, how's that my problem?

I did not say that. I said that you cannot reconcile the Bibe with how the Evolutionists claim the univserse came into existence, nor can you reconcile the impersonality of Evolution with the personal, guided Creation given in the Bible.

It is your problem beause you are trying to ascribe a process to God that runs completely contrary to God's own written account of how He created the world.

[The Lorax]

Creation is more sophisticated than creationists give God credit for.

I tend to agree.

Glad I'm not alone on that one.

[Guest shiloh357]

God created the universe in a single instant which scientists called the Big Bang. He set the natural processes in motion knowing exactly where they would lead, because the natural word behaves according to physical laws God created. The universe is a dynamic PROCESS, not an stationary OBJECT. To say God is "shaping and forming" things in the evolutionary process is like saying cars move because mechanics push them down the road.

Creation is more sophisticated than creationists give God credit for.

Do you even read the Bible, or do just pull your beliefs about God out of the air?

The problem here is that your view runs crosswise with the biblical record which is both inspired by God and is infallible/inerrant.

Evolution at its core is an unplanned, unguided, impersonal, entirely natural process. At least, that is how the major proponents of Evolution define it. The appeal of evolution to many people is that it completely factors God out of the origin of universe.

In the Bible, Creation is guided from the beginning to the end. It does not present God as simply starting the processes and then letting nature take its course.

The Bible presents God as making all thing according to His purpose, design and pleasure and He makes them according to their own kind. Furthermore, the Bible presents man as a special creation, distinct from rest of created order. Man is made after God's image and placed over the rest of created order by God. This flies in the face of what evolutionists teach.

Evolution cannot be reconciled with the Biblical account without destroying the authority of the Bible as the final arbiter in all matters of Christian faith and practice. Evolution and the Bible are mutually exclusive.

The Bible isn't a science textbook. If you see it that way, that's too bad.

That is right the Bible isn't a science textbook. Never said it was. The problem here is that you cannot see the theological errors in trying make evolution out to be how God created the world. When I examine evolutionary claims as pertaining to origins and the processes it ascribes to, those claims run theologically contrary to what the Bible teaches particularly about the origin of man as a special creation.

Genesis is the seedbed for everything that follows including the plan of redemption which is tied to the creation account and man's relationship with His Creator. If that foundational teaching of the Bible is error, then all that follows and is built on it would likewise be in error, and so one is forced to choose between the authority of the Bible and by extension the integrity of God, and claims of the evolutionists. Both cannot be right.

[The Lorax]

I did not say that. I said that you cannot reconcile the Bibe with how the Evolutionists claim the univserse came into existence, nor can you reconcile the impersonality of Evolution with the personal, guided Creation given in the Bible.

It is your problem beause you are trying to ascribe a process to God that runs completely contrary to God's own written account of how He created the world.

I edited the post.

But anyway, no of course you can't reconcile natural science with a literal interpretation of Genesis. You can't reconcile literal Genesis with itself! It shouldn't be taken literally. It's a metaphor for the much more complex reality of creation - something Iron Age farmers would not have grasped. Heck, most people today still don't understand it.

[Guest shiloh357]

Creation is more sophisticated than creationists give God credit for

That is baloney. Creationists see the sophistication and complexity of the universe and see a wise and sophisticated designer.

Evolution robs God the Glory due Him as Creator and the moral lawgiver of the universe. Again, God and Evolution are mutually exclusive concepts.

[nebula]

God is my whole point. You are the one arguing evolution occurring all its own. To mention God like this, you are admitting He is shaping and forming these things.

God created the universe in a single instant which scientists called the Big Bang.

That's your interpretation, and not fact.

He set the natural processes in motion knowing exactly where they would lead, because the natural word behaves according to physical laws God created.

Sounds like Deism to me.

The universe is a dynamic PROCESS, not an stationary OBJECT. To say God is "shaping and forming" things in the evolutionary process is like saying cars move because mechanics push them down the road.

Creation is more sophisticated than creationists give God credit for.

And God is more intimate with His creation than you give Him credit for.

Problem is most mutations are harmful

Incorrect. The majority of mutations are neutral, meaning they have no effect at all.

Except the ones that change the creature.

But for something like this process, you still have to account for how the mutation of part of the signaling process is beneficial to the species without the other factors in existence and lining up, and as they continue to mutate the features to actually fit together into something functional.

Evolutionary theory does not state every part of every organism must be beneficial at all times. I don't know where you got that idea.

If it's not beneficial, then why are the traits successfully passed down and overtake the original ones.

You seem to be mistaking evolution for creationism. Evolution *predicts* the retention of neutral traits and even "junk" traits as long as they are not significantly harmful. For instance, our genome has huge tracts of noncoding DNA. Useless? Probably, but they're not so costly that they select themselves out of the gene pool.

Evolution is about change for the better, not neutrality.

You're confusing your own argument.

[Guest shiloh357]

I did not say that. I said that you cannot reconcile the Bibe with how the Evolutionists claim the univserse came into existence, nor can you reconcile the impersonality of Evolution with the personal, guided Creation given in the Bible.

It is your problem beause you are trying to ascribe a process to God that runs completely contrary to God's own written account of how He created the world.

I edited the post.

But anyway, no of course you can't reconcile natural science with a literal interpretation of Genesis. You can't reconcile literal Genesis with itself! It shouldn't be taken literally. It's a metaphor for the much more complex reality of creation - something Iron Age farmers would not have grasped. Heck, most people today still don't understand it.

Genesis 1 is not a metaphor and is not written in metaphorical language. Simple literary analysis defies your claim. There are no figurative indicators in Genesis. Furthermore, the Bible comments on the creation of the world other places both in the Old and New Testaments. In every case the Bible treats the account of Genesis 1 as a literal event to be understood as genuine history. All of this is written under the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit. So to deny historicity of Genesis is to challenge the integrity of God Himself.

[nebula]

Consider our overactive immune system. . . .

. . . As a result, the lower spine degenerates over time. The intervertebral discs become dehydrated, losing their ability to absorb shock. This happens in everyone. There are other problems too. Osteophytes (bone spurs) grow that can impinge on the spinal cord, causing intense radiating pain, neurogenic bladder, and even paraplegia. . . .

These can be explained as results of the Fall.

Do you think our spines will be shaped differently in Heaven?

Seriously, we are cursed with death and decay, and that's what our bodies do.

We are cursed with disease, and what happens with our immune systems is a result.

Again, if you disagree, you will have to explain what makes us different in Heaven.

Another one is the female birth canal....

Genesis 3 - the curse given the woman.

Also, are you a guy, runninggator? I am, and I'm still wondering what my nipples are for.

Why are men called "The Bride of Christ" and women called "Sons of God"?