Bacteria Amaze

[The Lorax]

I got into science because the truth is important.

What I learned amazed me. The universe is infinitely more complex than the Bible says it is. This led me to the popular, evidence-based conclusion that the Bible is not about natural history, it's about spiritual salvation.

But if there is no truth in the history of the Bible, what are you following?

Hold on there, I was only talking about natural history, pre-human stuff, not history in general.

Although I agree with you that the Bible is about God and not about the physical world, I disagree with how far you've separated God out of the history of all we see.

OK, but I feel you may have misinterpreted me.

To say that bacteria evolved chemical signaling and rejecting God designing and planning them this way a very Deistic way of looking at the universe.

But I *do* think God planned them. See, evolution is a predictable, physical event. God is all-knowing. When He created the universe, He knew life would develop and evolution would occur. He even knew it would yield us. That's what I mean when I say God is behind evolution, yet evolution runs itself. Since evolution is a physical process, and God knows everything, He knew how it would turn out, and He created everything with that outcome in mind.

Sorry if I'm doing a bad job explaining this.

[Gauntlet]

trying to alienate free-thinking Christians

What is a free-thinking Christian, exactly?

[The Lorax]

trying to alienate free-thinking Christians

What is a free-thinking Christian, exactly?

For me, it means a Christian who is willing to learn about the world without irrevocable presuppositions.

[Gauntlet]

God is behind evolution, yet evolution runs itself

Like a computer program and its Programmer.

[The Lorax]

God is behind evolution, yet evolution runs itself

Like a computer program and its Programmer.

Exactly!

I've never thought of that analogy but it's a great one.

[Guest shiloh357]

But I *do* think God planned them. See, evolution is a predictable, physical event. God is all-knowing. When He created the universe, He knew life would develop and evolution would occur. He even knew it would yield us. That's what I mean when I say God is behind evolution, yet evolution runs itself. Since evolution is a physical process, and God knows everything, he knew how it would turn out, and he created everything with that knowledge in mind.

Sorry if I'm doing a bad job explaining this.

Well, you make a bad evolutionist, that is for certain. Evolution is defined by its major proponents as unguided and unplanned.

See, evolution is a predictable, physical event.

If it is based in natural selection, then how can it be predictible. Predictibility speaks of design and design calls for a designer, and that is contradictory to natural selection, at least the way it is presented by REAL evolutionists.

When He created the universe, He knew life would develop and evolution would occur. He even knew it would yield us.

But when God created the Universe, He stated that He created man separately in his own image, apart from the animal world. Man is separated by the fact that He is made specially by God in His image which is not said about the rest of creation. That defies the idea that man is the product of Evolution.

Since evolution is a physical process, and God knows everything, he knew how it would turn out, and he created everything with that knowledge in mind.

That runs contrary to the fact that God made everything after its own kind. Evolution is process of life and death of what is imperfect or unfit Yet God created everything after its own kind and called it good, and God only has one standard of "good" and that is perfection. Evolution stands in defiance of that.

Evolution defies the omnscience of God. God cannot create imperfection since He is, Himself perfect. Imperfection in creation is the result of sin. When God finished it was done completed and it was perfect.

[Guest shiloh357]

God is behind evolution, yet evolution runs itself

Like a computer program and its Programmer.

Not really. The Bible says that God is upholding creation and guiding it. He did not wind it up and then let it run on its own. That is deism and is unbiblical. The Bible teaches that God is watching over all creation and not even a sparrow falls from a tree without Him knowing. It is another way showing that Evolution and the Bible simply cannot be mixed.

[The Lorax]

Evolution is defined by its major proponents as unguided and unplanned.

Awesome, you're talking science. But I must disagree.

Evolution is *not* unguided. It is guided by natural selection.

As for evolution being planned, yes, many evolutionists will disagree on that. However, science doesn't comment on the supernatural, so it can't comment on whether or not there was a supernatural planner.

Predictibility speaks of design and design calls for a designer

How does predictability speak of design? Where did you get that idea?

REAL evolutionists.

Oh no, I'm not a 'REAL' evolutionist?!! I better hide my bio degree, lest the 'REAL' evolutionists come to take it back.

But when God created the Universe, He stated that He created man separately in his own image, apart from the animal world.

This is why Genesis is not a science text. Thank you for making the case for me.

Evolution defies the omnscience of God.

Evolution testifies to the omniscence of God. It shows He can predict the entire course of natural history 15 billion years in advance.

We have two different interpretations of the Bible, shiloh. Now, you will say yours is the only right one, and I'm a bad person for having my own, even though mine is based on verifiable evidence. Oh well. I cannot lie to myself. I cannot look at this world and everything we know about it and pretend it's a few thousands years old, that it was created in 7 days, that dinosaurs ate coconuts alongside Adam, and that virtually every living species was somehow crammed into a wooden boat for over a month, then survived, and then repopulated the Earth in their previous distributions.

It is a relationship with Jesus Christ, not a reliance on the Bible for science, that makes a person Christian.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Apr 11 2009, 11:52 PM)

Evolution is defined by its major proponents as unguided and unplanned.

Awesome, you're talking science. But I must disagree.

Evolution is *not* unguided. It is guided by natural selection.

Nice try. Natural selection is an unguided, unplanned process according to major Evolution proponents I have read such as Stephen Gould. It is completely impersonal and absent of any outside plan or design.

QUOTE

Predictibility speaks of design and design calls for a designer

How does predictability speak of design? Where did you get that idea?

I can predict (generally speaking) how things will happen based upon knowledge of how things work. I can predict, based upon how a toaster designed that if a person gets into a bathtub full of water while the toaster is plugged in and operating that they will get electrocuted.

Something that is totally unplanned based on unknown variables, mostly left up to chance is generally unpredictible.

QUOTE

But when God created the Universe, He stated that He created man separately in his own image, apart from the animal world.

This is why Genesis is not a science text. Thank you for making the case for me.

I never said it was a science text. You are missing the point. You state that man is the product of evolution. The Bible says that man was created separate from the rest of creation and was created by God in His image. That defies the notion that man is the result of evolution.

QUOTE

Evolution defies the omnscience of God.

Evolution testifies to the omniscence of God. It shows He can predict the entire course of natural history 15 billion years in advance.

No, that is not what Evolution shows.

Evolution is inconsistent with God

[Guest shiloh357]

It is a relationship with Jesus Christ, not a reliance on the Bible for science, that makes a person Christian.

The problem here is that no one, at least not for my part, is relying on the Bible for science.

What you fail to understand is that the Bible is a system of interlocked, progressive revelation. Everything is connected to everthing else. The theme of redemption begins in Genesis 1 continues to the last chapter of Revelation. You cannot separate that theme from any part of the Bible. Creation is itself the foundation for understanding redemption.

The Bible is not a smorgasboard from which you can pick and choose according to your taste. You either believe it is God's Word, or it is something else.