MorningGlory Posted April 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2009 Frankly I think the means by which L&L displays it's anti-abortion message - with all the gore possible of aborted babies - is crude, tasteless, and boarders on obscenity. This is supposed to be a "Christian" ministry? Well, to be equally "frank," the public disclosure of the aborted is no different IMO than the pictures of all the horrors committed during the holocaust. One should be offended by those who continue to perform the abortions which has been documented by the pictures rather than by the pictures themselves The exposing of atrocities for what they are to the public can easily be likened to the watchman sounding the alarm against a horrible sin that will require an accounting for before God. There's little comparison between pictures of aborted babies and the Holocaust. For one thing, pictures of Holocaust victims are not routinely displayed in the open where people congregate. Such pictures are displayed in museums where people pay to see them. For another those images are not routinely used as propaganda for a cause. I support the cause of ending abortion, but I do not support it "by any means necessary." The very type of person who cares little of the sensitivities of the public in order to get their point across can be the very type of person that is willing to set fire to private property and even kill a another person in order to stop what they feel is a moral wrong. Oh come on! Are you agreeing with the assessment that pro-lifers that show shocking photos are likely to become violent? The violence they're showing has already occurred! Isn't that what we are all angry about? The DHS assessment of such groups??? There are many, many people who don't think twice about abortion that need a wake up call such as these images. Sensitivity isn't a trait I would attribute to those who believe murder of babies is no big deal. I mean, if they can kill the unborn they're not too sensitive now are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted April 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2009 Thank God for true ministries that stand up for the truth. Christians, rejoice in the Lord. God still rules, He hasn't lost one bit of authority. He stills reigns and will forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted April 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Oh come on! Are you agreeing with the assessment that pro-lifers that show shocking photos are likely to become violent? I'm not agreeing with anybody. All I'm saying is that persons who have cast off ethical restraint for the sake of a cause tend to also be the type of persons who will also go to violent extremes. That's just a fact in my mind, given the evidence from history. Maybe some are satisfied just showing the gore of aborted babies, but some of those people go off the deep end, and they do need to be watched. It's one thing to be against abortion, to go out and peacefully, prayerfully protest; it's another to purposefully incite others to anger, frustration, through means which are intended to shock and offend. The only purpose images like that serve is to "get a rise out of people," and when that doesn't work, when it falls on deaf ears, some might go to more violent extremes. I'm not saying that happens all the time, or even some of the time, but I do believe that persons who have cast off restraint lose the testimony of Jesus Christ, and express their fallen nature, the sinful nature, rather than the exalted Christ (cf. 2 Pet. 1:5-6; Phil. 2:9). These persons actually become an "anti-testimony" of Christ. They have lost their authority, position, and expression of Christ as members of His Body on the earth. This is a grave matter (Titus 1:16). The violence they're showing has already occurred! Isn't that what we are all angry about? The DHS assessment of such groups??? There are many, many people who don't think twice about abortion that need a wake up call such as these images. Sensitivity isn't a trait I would attribute to those who believe murder of babies is no big deal. I mean, if they can kill the unborn they're not too sensitive now are they? Right. So if they're not sensitive, then images of that sort wouldn't do any good. It therefore serves no purpose other than to enrage those that have already set their minds against the church, against the highest standards of morality and decency. Look at it this way: Atheists are already armed, ready, and aimed to shoot their accusations against the faith to which we hold. Why then do we want to hand-deliver ammunition to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted April 17, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Don't think that this is a hoax. Active Christians need to be aware that they are being named by the Federal Government as being potential domestic terrorists. How do I know this? Life and Liberty Ministries has been specifically named by Homeland Security as being a terrorist threat in the recently released "2009 Virginia Terrorism Threat Assessment", produced by the Virginia Fusion Center. The Gospel and pro-life messages are perceived as dangerous to a government that hates and opposes Biblical Truth. We live in a day when you must be sure to seek out the truth before you quickly believe statements being made against fellow Christians. Lies about our Ministry are being spread through the government report and we have been characterized as being something that we are not. This is a similar tactic that is used against faithful Christians in Socialist nations were they have be slandered and labeled as criminals in an attempt to silence them. What will be LLM's response? We will continue to uncompromisingly stand for and spread YHWH's truth. Let hell and her minions rage. Isaiah stated in Is. 58:1, "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." Ezekiel 22:2 states, "Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt shew her all her abominations." Dennis Green Director Life and Liberty Ministries And so it has started. THE beginning of the great tribulation. I have been expecting something like this for some time now. Please read the whole thread - they are not really listed as terrorists... it's a bit misleading. I did read the thread and it seems to me that when a Christian ministry is singled out and called a "TERRORIST THREAT" we are not talking about a people of peace we are talking about people of violence because only people of violence are labeled as a terrorist threat and the only people in our vocabulary who are given the distinction of being a terrorist threat are TERRORISTS. So since Home Land Security considers this ministry to by capable of terrorist act which make them a terrorist threat that means that Home Land Security considers them to be terrorists who are a terrorist threat. Right? There is no misleading here. It is what it is. I am just glad our wonderful government is finally starting to show it's true colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer1997 Posted April 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,363 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 9 Joined: 11/07/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2009 Don't think that this is a hoax. Active Christians need to be aware that they are being named by the Federal Government as being potential domestic terrorists. How do I know this? Life and Liberty Ministries has been specifically named by Homeland Security as being a terrorist threat in the recently released "2009 Virginia Terrorism Threat Assessment", produced by the Virginia Fusion Center. The Gospel and pro-life messages are perceived as dangerous to a government that hates and opposes Biblical Truth. We live in a day when you must be sure to seek out the truth before you quickly believe statements being made against fellow Christians. Lies about our Ministry are being spread through the government report and we have been characterized as being something that we are not. This is a similar tactic that is used against faithful Christians in Socialist nations were they have be slandered and labeled as criminals in an attempt to silence them. What will be LLM's response? We will continue to uncompromisingly stand for and spread YHWH's truth. Let hell and her minions rage. Isaiah stated in Is. 58:1, "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." Ezekiel 22:2 states, "Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt shew her all her abominations." Dennis Green Director Life and Liberty Ministries And so it has started. THE beginning of the great tribulation. I have been expecting something like this for some time now. Please read the whole thread - they are not really listed as terrorists... it's a bit misleading. I did read the thread and it seems to me that when a Christian ministry is singled out and called a "TERRORIST THREAT" we are not talking about a people of peace we are talking about people of violence because only people of violence are labeled as a terrorist threat and the only people in our vocabulary who are given the distinction of being a terrorist threat are TERRORISTS. So since Home Land Security considers this ministry to by capable of terrorist act which make them a terrorist threat that means that Home Land Security considers them to be terrorists who are a terrorist threat. Right? There is no misleading here. It is what it is. I am just glad our wonderful government is finally starting to show it's true colors. These people are not exactly innocent creatures just spreading the word of Pro-Life. IF you read the document that started this from the Virginia Fusion Center (there was a link) you will note that they were NOT labeled terrorist and only had a warning about disruptive demonstrations. Their tactics of showing graphic and obscene photos of dead children is further exploitation of these little children, it is a point I totally agree with Cobalt1959 on. Blessings to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeandliberty Posted April 18, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 68 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/16/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 (edited) The statement that speaks of a "protest" at Longwood University is not true. It is a fabrication. There were no anarchists or opposition to our ministry outreach of any kind. You may not be violent, but I find the gory pictures of aborted babies you use for shock value extremely distasteful. Not because I am pro-abortion, I am about as anti-abortion as one can get, however, there must be a better and less-insulting way to get your point across. I am the parent of a still-born child and there is no way I would allow my child to be used in the way you use these babies on your signs. It is bad enough that they are already the victims of abortion, but your use of the images of them violates them once again. So they get victimized twice. How can you rationalize and/or justify that? Why do we show the bloody photographs of the murdered preborn? “A picture is worth a thousand words” In this case however, it is worth much more. Approximately 1.2 million preborn babies are murdered by abortion every year in America. An atrocity of this magnitude must not remain hidden. These photographs expose the suffering of the preborn child. Let us briefly explain our purpose for displaying these photographs. Ending Censorship We display these photos because the media has censored the preborn child from the “abortion debate”. The American press refuses to show the American people what these babies look like who are dying in the womb. We are simply attempting to bypass that media blackout by going to the streets and displaying these photographs. Now the American people can see for themselves exactly what a preborn child looks like after he or she has been in the hands of an abortionist. Most believe the myth that abortion is just the removal of some benign tissue. These photographs expose just how mythical such thinking is. The displaying of these photographs reveals to this nation that a great holocaust is going on in our midst, that our indifference towards it must cease, and that we must act on behalf of those who are oppressed. Faithful to Messiah Messiah taught, “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If we were in the position of our preborn neighbor threatened with an unjust death, we would hope someone would speak up for us, so we speak up for them. Some say our photographs are disgusting and hurt our Christian witness. Our response: have you ever seen a pretty picture of a murder? Murder is disgusting; abortion is murder; therefore, our pictures are disgusting. Beyond that, what hurts our Christian witness more – being silent while our neighbor is unjustly killed or exposing the atrocities being committed against our neighbor (Ephesians 5:11)? We think the former. We also display these photographs to inform our nation that it has violated God’s Law, and to therefore call its people to repentance. Our photographs stand as a haunting indictment upon our nation. What a pathetic people we are if we want to tolerate the oppression of an entire people group, but then become outraged at someone for displaying the suffering of that people group. It is important to note that the displaying of these photographs has saved many preborn babies from death by abortion and has spared many women and men the grief of having aborted their own son or daughter. Historical Precedents There are many historical precedents for displaying such photographs. Just as we have seen photographs of lynched black men, Jewish corpses, and lifeless Vietnamese children, so we need to look at the frozen horrid images of preborn babies torn from their mother’s wombs. At the end of WWII, our American soldiers marched the citizens of Germany past the remains of those who died in the death camps. They marched men, women, and children past the remains of those who died in the death camps. Why did they do it? Because those citizens all stood guilty for having tolerated the atrocities that went on in their midst. So it is in America today, we all stand guilty for being silent while this atrocity goes on in our nation. Matthew Brady, the famed Civil War photographer, took and displayed many photographs of the war dead. In 1862, the New York Times wrote the following about Brady’s photographs: “The dead of the battlefield come up to us very rarely, even in dreams. We see the list in the morning paper at breakfast, but dismiss its recollection with the coffee. We recognize the battlefield as reality, but it stands as a remote one. It is like a funeral next door. It attracts your attention, but it does not enlist your sympathy. But it is very different when the hearse stops at your own door and the corpse is carried over your own threshold. Mr. Brady has done something to bring us the terrible reality and earnestness or the war. If he has not brought bodies and laid them in our dooryards and along our streets, he has done something very like it.” So our photographs have brought you “the terrible reality and earnestness” of abortion. Our prayer is that people would be moved with compassion for the helpless preborn when they see these photographs and act to see this bloodshed outlawed. Otherwise, God will use His sword of justice and bring retribution upon a nation of people whose hands are covered with blood. When something is so horrifying we can’t stand to look at it, perhaps we shouldn’t be tolerating it. Edited April 18, 2009 by lifeandliberty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted April 18, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2009 When something is so horrifying we can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 18, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2009 You seem to be trying to do the work of the Holy Spirit by convicting people of their sins. We are to love those who are hurting, guiding them to Christ, gently, not slamming pictures in their face. How many of these people have come to you and thanked you for showing them disfigured pictures of mutilated unborn children? Jesus tells us to deal with our enemies with love: Matthew 5:43-45 (New King James Version) Love Your Enemies You have heard that it was said, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeandliberty Posted April 18, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 68 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/16/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 When something is so horrifying we can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted April 18, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,069 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 428 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2009 When something is so horrifying we can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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