Mental Illness

[Deepblue]

i too, have suffered depression. and i too, have experienced peace in this midst of it. but it wasn't, by far, the abundant life Jesus promised. if depression was an all-encompassing, full-time thing, few people would survive it. i don't think the abundant life Jesus talked about was an occasional peace, but a life-expanding peace. if i'm miserable 80% of the time, i would not call that abundant life.

What is your definition of "abundant life"?

sorry buddy! my definition of the abundant life is one where all that matters is Jesus. when one is depressed, it's very difficult to concentrate on anything other than self. it's not that a person won't have problems or won't get depressed. we live in a fallen world and life is hard. Pain, problems, and depressive stuff come with that. but we take ahold of who God is, who He is to us, and who we are to Him, and He can make everything else fade away--including the demons that bind us.

an abundant life is opposite to what satan has in mind for us: kill, steal, and destroy. he robs us of every good thing God has promised us. i would say joni earickson tada has an abundant life. listen to her talk and you will know it's true. yet, she has no use of her arms and legs. an abundant life is not the "good" life that some people imagine. but mental illness deals with the mind, and people like joni only have the mind in which to pursue the joy of Christ. as we age, more physical pains come. it's simply part of the process. but no matter how much physical pain we have, we can still feel joy. and contentment. not much of either to be had when one is anxious or depressed.

answer your question ok?

So God can't give us the strength to focus on Him despite our circumstances? I thought that was one of the amazing things about God's grace and peace is that we can obtain it regardless of circumstances. We can learn to trust God even more with such problems because He always comes through no matter what. And to say we can not have an abundant life and be productive in our relationship with God and for the advancement for His kingdom is false. How come Chief is an administrator here doing God's work? The Lord also leads me to help others a lot as well. Just as someone who doesn't have mental illness, we still have the free will to choose to serve God or not to serve Him. We are not demonically controlled. And even though you try not to, you are offending those who do suffer, and telling them their relationship is dented or not fulfilling, when you have absolutely no right to make that claim.

[Gauntlet]

Mental illness isn't a chemical imbalance that gets out of whack.

Actually, it is. I've taken prescription medication to control my bipolar and autism symptoms for years now. I know what happens when I miss taking them. Forget the dogma and step into reality.

[Deepblue]

Mental illness isn't a chemical imbalance that gets out of whack.

Actually, it is. I've taken prescription medication to control my bipolar and autism symptoms for years now. I know what happens when I miss taking them. Forget the dogma and step into reality.

No I mean it isn't something that temporarily gets out of whack and suddenly you can completely fix it. I understand what you are saying and I agree. I take meds too.

[Deepblue]

Charitow, I know you are trying not to speak to Chief or others on the forum directly by saying they are demonically oppressed, but you are. Above you told Chief you were not trying to refer to his issues by using the word "you", but Chief has been diagnosed as being Bi-polar, so no matter what, you are saying he is demonically influenced or in bondage, just as you are saying the same thing to me. When he says he knows his relationship with God is fine, you are essentially telling him it isn't with what you are presenting, and that is not your place to say, because you don't know that. I'll tell ya what, I have been off my meds for almost two weeks now, and I realize I made a big mistake. Gotta get back on em tomorrow. And doing research and actually living with serious mental illness is a different thing. Mental illness isn't a chemical imbalance that gets out of whack. In the scriptures, didn't demonic possession also showcase physical harm as well? Why can't we say that people who are physically ill be under the influence of satan???? And to say that we can't have an abundant life because of our mental illness is so wrong. Isn't His grace sufficient? What about Paul's thorn in the flesh? Is it possible that we with mental issues may have a thorn in the flesh as well? I don't know....but if Paul knows that in his weakness God is made strong, and His grace is enough, then it is the same for us. And since you are not suffering from serious mental illness, you have no right to say who can or can not have the abundant life.

did you actually read my posts, deepblue? i am so tired of people telling me what i'm saying without reading what i have written!!

if this struck a nerve with you, too, i'm sorry. but i will not lie to people just to appease them. i don't care who you are, if it's a spiritual problem, it's a spiritual problem. saying it aint' so ain't gonna change anything.

what do you think the people in matt. 7:21-23 thought about their relationship with God? not saying you all aren't saved; just saying that we don't always realize where we truly are sometimes (which is, btw, one of the symptoms of mental illness). where do you think ananias and sapphira thought they were in their relationship with God? i would not presume to know what your relationship with God is. i do know that Jesus said to peter, "get thee behind me satan." do you think peter thought satan had any part in his life at that time?

it's not a good idea to get off any psychotrophic meds cold turkey without a physician.

we could say that people who are physically ill are under satanic attack and i don't think it would be far off. the thing is, the Bible mentions the mind and thoughts so many times, it would be foolish to disregard our thoughts and blame a disease.

God's grace covers a lot, blue. and our weakness is His strength. just like with Joni. but our mind is something different than our bodies. God talks about problems with our mind; He doesn't talk much about problems with our bodies. why do you think that is?

if you want to live with mental illness, you have that option. God takes care of His own, and He will take care of you. if you want second-best, don't look at the spiritual aspect. i would like to ask you, though, if you ever have looked into it? are you disregarding it as a self-defense?

as far as me and mental illness goes, had you bothered to read my post you would have found out that i did struggle with it. for many years. does that give me the "right" to talk about what an abundant life is?

So by saying you struggled with it, you are saying that you had a spiritual issue for 30 some years right? I don't know your situation, but was it possible it was a spiritual issue you had, and that you got it ressolved, and that you didn't actually have a mental illness? Were you diagnosed or on meds, or was it a spiritual issue in your mind? Again, I do think that we can be oppressed and have spiritual issues. At the same time I believe some have mental illness which is a physical problem and nothing else. And let me ask you this, why did God still allow me to be sick and go through so much pain with obsessive blasphemous thoughts when I was saved? I was terrified that God was abandoning me, cause my mind told me that. But through it all God gave me assurance and strengthened me. He showed me that no matter what, I can rely on Him. Why didn't he take it away from me? Does he intend for His children to be demonically oppressed? Even when I cried out day and night for relief? Why did He allow me to keep it and see Him come through in spite of circumstances? I was so bad off that I was literally paralyzed. But God showed me that regardless of my thoughts, that He will not leave nor forsake me. He allowed me to go through some dark places, because when I saw the light, my faith was stronger. Why did he choose to let me suffer and use it for His glory instead of releasing me from it? Is God using this to show me His everlasting grace and love a spiritual issue? I honestly don't know how I was under a spiritual curse or having spiritual issues when I had just received salvation, and when God used it for His glory. Now I know, regardless of thoughts or feelings, that God is greater than all of it, and I won't put a limit on God and His promises.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Deepblue

[Guest man]

my definition of the abundant life is one where all that matters is Jesus. when one is depressed, it's very difficult to concentrate on anything other than self. it's not that a person won't have problems or won't get depressed. we live in a fallen world and life is hard. Pain, problems, and depressive stuff come with that. but we take ahold of who God is, who He is to us, and who we are to Him, and He can make everything else fade away--including the demons that bind us.

That is not the Word's definition of "abundant life".

John 10

10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

The "abundant life" that Christ is talking about has nothing to do with the "here and now". He's making reference to eternity.

He laid down His life that we may live.

"The thief", is a false teacher.

[Gauntlet]

Mental illness isn't a chemical imbalance that gets out of whack.

Actually, it is. I've taken prescription medication to control my bipolar and autism symptoms for years now. I know what happens when I miss taking them. Forget the dogma and step into reality.

No I mean it isn't something that temporarily gets out of whack and suddenly you can completely fix it. I understand what you are saying and I agree. I take meds too.

Only a great fool would disregard medical science and the counsel of physicans during a health crisis. If God can work through human beings, He can work through science. If you're sick, go to a doctor. Prayer should never ever talk the place of sound medical attention.

[stacey c]

I won't claim scientific expertise in this area, I leave that to Charitow but I have seen and witnessed and have heard testimony from people who have suffered from mental illness and they will tell you it was purely demonic.

I have a beloved friend whom I've known for several years who was diagnosed Bi-Polar and severly depressed as a child. She lived with this for years, saw all the doctors, treatment medications ect....ect... She got saved years later and still dealt with her medical issues. Then in a miraculous healing service at church she was set free from these devils, and she will even tell you they were devils, now you will never meet a more joyful, loving women, who praises God daily no matter what!

Next I have a cousin who is older than me who suffered severe mental illness most of her life. Who was institutionalized several times because she was a danger to herself and others. She will tell you of the "voices" she has heard speaking to her and the demons she saw terrorizing her. She went to church with some friends and was saved INSTANTLY she was delivered!!!!!!! God healed her so completely He's even wiped her memory of some of the most horrific and abusive times of her life.

I moved here to CT. last August, I had only been here about a month and I saw a neighbor lady who is Schizophrenic literally climb out her second floor window and hurl herself to the ground. Me and a friend were the only eyewitnesses. I SAW the demonic activity all around this woman and her house. I know scoff and question if you want, but demons are real and I know what I saw.

Another friend I met up here has told me of her medical condition, Bi-Polar and Schizophrenic, she's on all kinds of meds. and treatments. She has told me of how since a small child she has seen demons follow her and knows things she shouldn't know, and how they talk to her. Her grandma, mamma, and aunt all claim to have psychic abilities and have been the same way as her. She and her two sons have told me how one night she had come down her stairs on her knees, speaking in another language, growling and cussing scared her boys and husband senseless!!!! Tell me that's not demonic.

A little girl 9 years old who is friends with my little girl is Bi-Polar, no she doesn't come from a abusive or disfuctional family these are good loving people, is so full of rage and abuse towards others. I'm sorry if any disagree it's demonic.

Do I think God uses the medical field to help thise in need? Absolutely! But why do we limit God to do what He says He wants to do for us? We need to take Him at His Word and believe Him for it.

[RebekahDavid]

blessings,

my opinion a sister who is outside ( not having a mental illness) of this topic

i do think that there may be more than one cause of mental illnesses. some biological, some demonic, and perhaps maybe some of both. that said

the problem with some of the posts here that i find disturbing is that they are pointing to an all or nothing point of view and they strongly remind me of Job's friends in context and flavor. surely they placed blame upon Job for somehow not being "right enough" with the Lord for having some "secret sin" within his heart for somehow being "inadequate in His faith or thoughts" ergo being "punished " for some lack of trait God was looking for or why else would he be allowed to suffer all he had to do was to seek the Lord earnestly?.

can it be a case of demon possesion yes, but just as in Job afflictions are not always do to being out of step with the Lord's will. i would advise you all who are placing this judgement upon others to pray and reread Job.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

[mizzdy]

blessings,

my opinion a sister who is outside ( not having a mental illness) of this topic

i do think that there may be more than one cause of mental illnesses. some biological, some demonic, and perhaps maybe some of both. that said

the problem with some of the posts here that i find disturbing is that they are pointing to an all or nothing point of view and they strongly remind me of Job's friends in context and flavor. surely they placed blame upon Job for somehow not being "right enough" with the Lord for having some "secret sin" within his heart for somehow being "inadequate in His faith or thoughts" ergo being "punished " for some lack of trait God was looking for or why else would he be allowed to suffer all he had to do was to seek the Lord earnestly?.

can it be a case of demon possesion yes, but just as in Job afflictions are not always do to being out of step with the Lord's will. i would advise you all who are placing this judgement upon others to pray and reread Job.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

I agree with you that it can be a matter of both. I have seen a demon possesed person who acted completely mentally ill and seen the mentally ill. I think of us as all broken in some fashion or another. Having many depressive episodes myself I know I wasn't possesed or being taunted I was just broken. God fixes me up when I really give Him the problem, but thats me and I still have my problems.

Some problems can be deep rooted feelings of sin and no amount of medicine or therapy can fix that, only G-d. And because we live in a corrupted society and land we are eventually going to be corrupted in some illness or another whether it be man made or just the breaking down of our own bodies. Life happens and we shouldn't be so quick to judge illness or what have you as a demon attack. Just my two cents.

[KC02]

Good point. I have never thought about it like that. I do notice that some people have more faith in King James than they do in God these day. No wonder we deal with so much sickness. KV is not a healer, folks.

KJV-Only is getting dangerously close to the idolatry of Bible worship. Confusing the medium for the message. In this case, the medium and the message are not the same thing.

(And incidentally I use the NIV.)