WN: US late-term abortion clinic to close after doctor's murder -

[nebula]

Some extremists however seem to have chosen the path of coercion through violence, which is essentially domestic terrorism.

I disagree with you understanding and description of things.

The ones who have used the violence, as far as I know, have all been found to be angry people. They aren't looking at the big picture, trying to coerce through violence. They're just angry over the issue and found a target to unleash their anger.

That's not terrorism.

... I guess I was just irked that it took a page and a half for someone to even mention the fact that this potential good (closing of a partial-birth abortion clinic) came about from a terrible act of violence (cold-blooded murder).

It took so long for it to be mentioned in this thread because we already discussed it to death in 3 previous threads. I do highly recommend you find those other threads and at least glance through them to see what has transpired before this thread was posted.

You can't take topics on message boards in isolation like that.

I was also commenting on the fact that there was a sense of disappointment that someone else was thinking about filling the doctor's shoes, when it should have been expected. Nothing had changed in the battle of ideas, so naturally any victory gained from the act of violence would have been short lived.

Hamburgers, you don't get it. The celebration wasn't over "the battle of ideas". The celebration was over the lives that will be spared by the clinic closing.

Can you look me in the eye and tell me that partial-birth abortion is not gruesome? (You do know that this is how "late term abortions" are administered, don't you?) Why does having the majority of the baby's body taken outside of the mother's body considered an acceptable killing?

[Oh Hamburgers!]

I disagree with you understanding and description of things.

The ones who have used the violence, as far as I know, have all been found to be angry people. They aren't looking at the big picture, trying to coerce through violence. They're just angry over the issue and found a target to unleash their anger.

That's not terrorism.

Since when has terrorism ever looked at the bigger picture? I imagine that most members of Al Quaida - like those who would resort to violence regarding abortion issues - are angry individuals who are angry about specific issues (American 'Imerialism'/ Consumerism / Abortion legality etc ) and would resort to violence as a way to try and solve their problems. Even if they don't realize it they are still attempting to coerce an end to abortion through violent means.

The message sent, intended or not, is "if you practice partial birth abortion, you aren't safe".

Again I'm sure that 99% of people against abortion would never resort to violence, but if you parallel the extremists with a more familiar type of terrorism (Al Quaida for example) I'm sure you would see there are many similarities. I do believe that calling these events domestic acts of terrorism is valid.

Hamburgers, you don't get it. The celebration wasn't over "the battle of ideas". The celebration was over the lives that will be spared by the clinic closing.

Right, and that's exactly what I was saying; to expect that things will change and that lives will be spared by the murder is frankly naive. The grim fact of the matter is that the slayed doctor provided a service, and the reason he could stay in business was because there were enough people around interested in his services. If you remove the service but keep the demand, it is only a matter of time before another person will fill in. And that's exactly what happened.

If people really want to win the war, they need to recognize that blaming the doctors for the abortions is like blaming a gun for the crime. If a gun has no one to pull its trigger, it will never kill. Similarly if a doctor has no pregnant mothers to ask for abortions they will not abort.

There needs to be a greater push for sexual education and yes I believe that education regarding contraceptive use is also required. Combined with education showing kids how to be responsible with their bodies we will hopefully see less demand for abortions. More educated people who practice safer sex will have less unplanned pregnancies, and will therefore be less inclined to seek out abortions. If you want to see less babies aborted, that is perhaps the best way to do it.

[nebula]

but if you parallel the extremists with a more familiar type of terrorism (Al Quaida for example) I'm sure you would see there are many similarities. I do believe that calling these events domestic acts of terrorism is valid.

No, terrorism would be random killings of individuals, not targeting a prominent partial-birth abortionist.

[abbershay]

I am surpraised by this thread so many people seem to think that killing babies isnt murder.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

but if you parallel the extremists with a more familiar type of terrorism (Al Quaida for example) I'm sure you would see there are many similarities. I do believe that calling these events domestic acts of terrorism is valid.

No, terrorism would be random killings of individuals, not targeting a prominent partial-birth abortionist.

Dictionary.com

Terrorism:

1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

2.the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

3.a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

How does what happened to the doctor and his clinic not fit snugly under the first definition?

Edited June 12, 2009 by Oh Hamburgers!

[abbershay]

Wasnt this done to save life? did it save lives?

[Oh Hamburgers!]

Wasnt this done to save life? did it save lives?

Wasn't what done?

[Rick-Parker]

I am surpraised by this thread so many people seem to think that killing babies isnt murder.

Where do you get that from?

[nebula]

Dictionary.com

Terrorism:

1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

2.the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

3.a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

How does what happened to the doctor and his clinic not fit snugly under the first definition?

I am not convinced the man was trying to intimidate or coerce.

I believe he was acting as a vigilante taking down a mass murderer.

Really, if you beleive the man who shot Tiller was a terrorist, what would you call Batman? (Yeah, I know he's fictional, but talk about using fear....)

[Matthitjah]

If people really want to win the war, they need to recognize that blaming the doctors for the abortions is like blaming a gun for the crime. If a gun has no one to pull its trigger, it will never kill. Similarly if a doctor has no pregnant mothers to ask for abortions they will not abort.

Did you just equate the actions of a prolific, murderous, barbaric, thug who took glee in his craft, with that of an inanimate object that needs a conscious acquaintence?

Dr. Tiller knew full well what he was doing when he was doing it and to excuse him of it because of the demand isn't going to wash Biblically nor in front of a Holy, Just, and Righteous God.

Peace,

Dave