Massorite Posted July 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I have been thinking about something and was wondering how you think about this. And i really hope someone can give me an answer. Heaven is perfect. No sickness, no pain, no sadness, no sin etc etc. All people are happy, healthy and everything is 100% perfect in heaven. What i don't get is the following: how is it possible, that in a 100% perfect place satan got the evil idea of wanting to be equal to God. So that's the question... how's that possible. Does that mean heaven isn;t 100% perfect? And that there still is evil? Curious about your answers... You have answered your own question. Evil was found in heaven, inside of satan and his angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Satan was the deceiver, so who or what was the deceiver in heaven that enticed or beguiled him? Satan himself. Isaiah 14 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2009 As I said earlier, and this is just theory, but I wonder if when God created the angels, He included in them the knowledge of good and evil. This is why pride was able to enter into Satan. In other words, they already had the knowledge and Satan decided to follow evil, having the same free will as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 As I said earlier, and this is just theory, but I wonder if when God created the angels, He included in them the knowledge of good and evil. This is why pride was able to enter into Satan. In other words, they already had the knowledge and Satan decided to follow evil, having the same free will as we do. If they didn't have that knowledge, Lucifer never would have said, "I will". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thysia Posted July 2, 2009 Group: Seeker * Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 99 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/15/1981 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 As I said earlier, and this is just theory, but I wonder if when God created the angels, He included in them the knowledge of good and evil. This is why pride was able to enter into Satan. In other words, they already had the knowledge and Satan decided to follow evil, having the same free will as we do. A quick reply to this one... the rest i will read more carefully later, but just had to respond to this. So you are saying God created the angels (and lucifer) with knowledge of good and evil. Wich means God allowed them to think evil ( cause He knew that would happen) and so allowed satan to be pride. Wich also means evil thoughts accured in heaven. And that means that heaven (where the angels were and where God was) wasn't perfect. Cause in a perfect place pride wouldn't excist. hmmm, makes me also wonder: was that heaven, not the same heaven God is in now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiloh62 Posted July 2, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,683 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/14/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1962 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I have been thinking about something and was wondering how you think about this. And i really hope someone can give me an answer. Heaven is perfect. No sickness, no pain, no sadness, no sin etc etc. All people are happy, healthy and everything is 100% perfect in heaven. What i don't get is the following: how is it possible, that in a 100% perfect place satan got the evil idea of wanting to be equal to God. So that's the question... how's that possible. Does that mean heaven isn;t 100% perfect? And that there still is evil? Curious about your answers... Well, the evil one was an angel(Lucifer). It may be possible for them to be evil, I'm sure they are not governed by the same criteria as we are. My boss explained it to me this way: There can be no evil in Heaven, or we won't think evil thoughts because our free will will be taken away. I'm not sure of the validity of that viewpoint, however, but he is a preacher, so I do respect his opinions. I'm hoping our free will won't be taken away, but am not certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted July 15, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2009 I have been thinking about something and was wondering how you think about this. And i really hope someone can give me an answer. Heaven is perfect. No sickness, no pain, no sadness, no sin etc etc. All people are happy, healthy and everything is 100% perfect in heaven. What i don't get is the following: how is it possible, that in a 100% perfect place satan got the evil idea of wanting to be equal to God. So that's the question... how's that possible. Does that mean heaven isn;t 100% perfect? And that there still is evil? Curious about your answers... "heaven" was not 100% perfect. Angels have free-will. You're answering your own question but are not accepting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiloh62 Posted July 16, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,683 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/14/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1962 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I have been thinking about something and was wondering how you think about this. And i really hope someone can give me an answer. Heaven is perfect. No sickness, no pain, no sadness, no sin etc etc. All people are happy, healthy and everything is 100% perfect in heaven. What i don't get is the following: how is it possible, that in a 100% perfect place satan got the evil idea of wanting to be equal to God. So that's the question... how's that possible. Does that mean heaven isn;t 100% perfect? And that there still is evil? Curious about your answers... My theory is that the angels are not governed by the same guidelines as we are/will be. I asked my pastor a while back if it was possible for us to be thrown out of heaven the way Lucifer was. He explained to me that our free will will be taken away from us when we go to heaven, so that we will not have any evil thoughts. Can anyone else expound on this and either verify or refute it for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 My theory is that the angels are not governed by the same guidelines as we are/will be. I asked my pastor a while back if it was possible for us to be thrown out of heaven the way Lucifer was. He explained to me that our free will will be taken away from us when we go to heaven, so that we will not have any evil thoughts. Can anyone else expound on this and either verify or refute it for me? I don't believe there will be a need to take away our free will. Look at the verse below. Those who make it into the Kingdom will become like Christ. He is pure and anyone chosen to share His Kingdom will also be pure. There will be no need to take away free will. 1 John 3 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. I don't want to derail this thread, but the Word states that only a few will actually make it into the Kingdom. Matthew 7 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted July 16, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I have been thinking about something and was wondering how you think about this. And i really hope someone can give me an answer. Heaven is perfect. No sickness, no pain, no sadness, no sin etc etc. All people are happy, healthy and everything is 100% perfect in heaven. What i don't get is the following: how is it possible, that in a 100% perfect place satan got the evil idea of wanting to be equal to God. So that's the question... how's that possible. Does that mean heaven isn;t 100% perfect? And that there still is evil? Curious about your answers... My theory is that the angels are not governed by the same guidelines as we are/will be. I asked my pastor a while back if it was possible for us to be thrown out of heaven the way Lucifer was. He explained to me that our free will will be taken away from us when we go to heaven, so that we will not have any evil thoughts. Can anyone else expound on this and either verify or refute it for me? Ya! Where in the bible does it say that? Nowhere! Looks like your pastor spoke out of assumption instead of scripture. If it is not written in the bible it is not. The angels lived in heaven and they still had their free will. Are we not those who will judge angels? Yes according to scripture we will be judging angels which means that we will have the free will to pass judgment one way or the other. (1 Corinthians 6:3) And when we will be judging angels is after we are in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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