Matthitjah Posted June 27, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2009 Dave, you have a lot of good answers in your post, but i don't think you answered the question she asked! is there evil in heaven? I said that I believe that Onelight is onto the right answer. Please see his post. Maybe he will elaborate? Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted June 27, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2009 Beloved of God, Thysia, I went a wandering to the Gym this evening and I was listening to some music. Christ was Obedient because there is nothing more pleasing than an Obedient Son. When God said,"Go," He went. Without hesitation or reservation because you were so precious, and worth it to Him. You see, Jesus models what we are to be like. He gave it all and got nothing back. Just to have you. satan holds onto it all and seeks to devour the rest. Is it a matter of evil in heaven? The Word say's this; Eze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted June 27, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted June 27, 2009 The question of where evil came from is a very old one. God said that everything was 'very good' after the Creation. Now it stands to reason that if everything was very good after all things were created, then Satan was also very good. Satan was created for a reason, and that reason was very good, because it served the purpose of God in the ultimate. So then, did evil come out of nowhere? No. Scripture tells us that all things were created bu the Word. Evil (the principle) is part of all. In Isaiah 45:7 God tells us that HE created evil. The words 'bara ra' are used. Bara is the same word used in Genesis 1 when describing how the creation came about from nothing. Obviously God did not create evil acts, but merely the principle of evil. Satan was created to violate the principle for some purpose of God. He's no more than a tool, he was created as a vessel of destruction (Romans 9). When his purpose in God's plan is complete, God will cast him into Gehenna and be done with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I have been thinking about something and was wondering how you think about this. And i really hope someone can give me an answer. Heaven is perfect. No sickness, no pain, no sadness, no sin etc etc. All people are happy, healthy and everything is 100% perfect in heaven. What i don't get is the following: how is it possible, that in a 100% perfect place satan got the evil idea of wanting to be equal to God. So that's the question... how's that possible. Does that mean heaven isn;t 100% perfect? And that there still is evil? Curious about your answers... Who says he was in heaven when he decided to rebel against God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 27, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2009 Dave, you have a lot of good answers in your post, but i don't think you answered the question she asked! is there evil in heaven? I said that I believe that Onelight is onto the right answer. Please see his post. Maybe he will elaborate? Peace, Dave Putting me on the spot, 'eh Bro! I will do my best to use scripture to paint the picture. Where to start .... where to start ...? Well, we know, or believe, that we are in the last days before Jesus will return for His bride (those who are His). This time is known as the tribulation and will last 7 years. During this time, Satan will deceive many into believing he is God. He will have his own people, the beast who he gave his power to , and the false prophet who will cause many to follow the beast. During this 7 years, Satan, through the beast and false prophet, will raise an army to try to destroy what God has done in this world. At the end of the 7 years, Jesus will return. Revelation 19 Christ on a White Horse 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Satan will lose and the beast and false prophet will be cast into the last of fire and brimstone. The Beast and His Armies Defeated 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted June 27, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2009 I think he is wondering how satan was even able to think up evil while in heaven. Pride + free will = rebellion. Good reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 27, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted June 27, 2009 OneLight as succinct and accurate as ever. Thank you! I guess when Lucifer was thrown down there must have been free will, (or maybe some other other authority granted to angels by God that Lucifer rebelled against?) otherwise how would he been able to rebel? But I think I might have it now, with your answer: "That brings us up to the verse I first posted. You see, it is in the New Heaven and New Earth where there will be no more evil in Heaven. Satan is defeated once and for all. Satan will never be able to go to God and accuse His people any longer. Sin will be no more. We will forever live with God and He with us." No sin as we will be in a perfect Heaven (new Heaven)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted June 27, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Before God created the angels there was 100% purity, but after creating other beings there must naturally be the potential for disobeidence, which God foreknew before He began creating. So just as a bone may break and grow back stronger than the original, God in His wisdom prepared to send Jesus into the middle of our history before we were created, knowing that we would sin yet using it as a way to make known even greater facets of His splendor and grace. Also making a way to destroy sin and therefore the potential for any further sin to eventuate once the doors of the ark (heaven) close. Be sure that no uncircumcised heart will enter heaven, and that God knows those hearts that have turned to Him and those that are still wickedly decietful beyond repair. So the answer is that evil will not ever disrupt the peace and purity of heaven again of this we can be sure, and the wisdom of God will be seen by all at the final judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted June 27, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2009 The question of where evil came from is a very old one. God said that everything was 'very good' after the Creation. Now it stands to reason that if everything was very good after all things were created, then Satan was also very good. Satan was created for a reason, and that reason was very good, because it served the purpose of God in the ultimate. So then, did evil come out of nowhere? No. Scripture tells us that all things were created bu the Word. Evil (the principle) is part of all. In Isaiah 45:7 God tells us that HE created evil. The words 'bara ra' are used. Bara is the same word used in Genesis 1 when describing how the creation came about from nothing. Obviously God did not create evil acts, but merely the principle of evil. Satan was created to violate the principle for some purpose of God. He's no more than a tool, he was created as a vessel of destruction (Romans 9). When his purpose in God's plan is complete, God will cast him into Gehenna and be done with him. Jas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 27, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2009 OneLight as succinct and accurate as ever. Thank you! I guess when Lucifer was thrown down there must have been free will, (or maybe some other other authority granted to angels by God that Lucifer rebelled against?) otherwise how would he been able to rebel? But I think I might have it now, with your answer: "That brings us up to the verse I first posted. You see, it is in the New Heaven and New Earth where there will be no more evil in Heaven. Satan is defeated once and for all. Satan will never be able to go to God and accuse His people any longer. Sin will be no more. We will forever live with God and He with us." No sin as we will be in a perfect Heaven (new Heaven)? Scripture does not tell us what the future of sin will be, but lets reason this out a bit. Angels were created and lived directly with God. They were not given a life where they could decide if they wanted to believe in God or not, as we are. My thoughts are that because of our time in this life, those who go to be with God have done so out of the desires of their heart. God has given us time to really search our hearts. Angels did not have this time and some decided that they did not want to follow God, 1/3 or them. Revelation 12:1-12 The Woman, the Child, and the Dragon Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days. Satan Thrown Out of Heaven And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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