Help needed re the Levitical Law

[Guest shiloh357]

That's considered INCEST. And under the Levitical law, if you're raped by any relative, YOU DIE. You don't marry the relative.

a.

That is not true. God does not punish innocent victims. Like precepts, you need to read the Bible a little more carefully on this matter. Victims of rape are not under a death penalty in God's law.

I was not referring to the victim. I was referring to the perpetrator.

a.

But in your post you said, "if your raped by any relative, you die." Your post should have read, "if you rape a relative, you die."

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

No, the point was that if she did not call for help, it meant that she was consenting to the act and thus committing adultery. It is not rape and there is nothing in the text to support such an assertion. The fact she did not scream indicates that her life was not threatened.

If it was consentual, he wouldn't have to find her in the city. To find her in the city and lay with her means they had never met before

The location is irrelevant. She did not cry out, which indicates a mutual consent to the encounter according to the text.

QUOTE

No, I am sorry, but you have it wrong. The unmarried virgin in vv. 28-29 is not forced, but is consentual, and thus not a crime.

Then why is the term "lay hold on her" used?

That is just how the english renders it. The nuance in Hebrew does not indicate that it was a case of someone being forced against their will.

QUOTE

The situation with Tamar occurred befor the giving of the law, and furthermore, we don't derive doctrine from narrative passages.

David was before Moses? As for deriving doctrine from the bible, it's line upon line etc..

My mistake... I confused Tamar with Dinah.

No that is not how doctrine is developed. Narratives simiply tell us events that happened, but do not form the basis for doctrine. There are two kinds of text: Descriptive (narrative) and Prescriptive (doctrinal). People who try to make narratives into doctrinal passages, do a lot of violence to Scripture. While narratives do have spirtual lessons contained in them, they are not doctrinal in nature, and should not be treated as such.

[anitarose]

That's considered INCEST. And under the Levitical law, if you're raped by any relative, YOU DIE. You don't marry the relative.

a.

That is not true. God does not punish innocent victims. Like precepts, you need to read the Bible a little more carefully on this matter. Victims of rape are not under a death penalty in God's law.

I was not referring to the victim. I was referring to the perpetrator.

a.

But in your post you said, "if your raped by any relative, you die." Your post should have read, "if you rape a relative, you die."

You know, I am not perfect. I do make mistakes. Unlike a lot of people that don't anymore.

[Guest shiloh357]

That's considered INCEST. And under the Levitical law, if you're raped by any relative, YOU DIE. You don't marry the relative.

a.

That is not true. God does not punish innocent victims. Like precepts, you need to read the Bible a little more carefully on this matter. Victims of rape are not under a death penalty in God's law.

I was not referring to the victim. I was referring to the perpetrator.

a.

But in your post you said, "if your raped by any relative, you die." Your post should have read, "if you rape a relative, you die."

You know, I am not perfect. I do make mistakes. Unlike a lot of people that don't anymore.

I was only pointing why I misunderstood you.

[Guest BeganForever]

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28“If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

Could Taphas (Seized)Mean that the Man took the father's possesion (Virgin)because you had to pay the brides price and ask the father Before the act?

So even If it was consensual you could still consider it "TAKING" what belonged to another man?Because Women were not free to do as they willed.

I noticed that all the verses preceding the one in question was in respect to the authority/right of the male over the women/virgins.

There is a paralled passage that may support this notion.

(Exodus 22:16)

Here not only did the man had to pay for the fornication/consensual act,But also the father could still keep his daughter.It was a great dishonor to do this to a man and a greater one to have to give your daughter away by force.I noticed alot of vengeance was taken on the behalf of raped virgins.For example tamar and Dinah,I understand Dinah was before But didn't tamar came after the law?

I was discussing this verse with an Israeli and he said that the word in question(Taphas) was a verb and thus the formal Rashi interpretation was rape.I dont want to spread any false Doctrine so if anyone knows how to read the torah I would really appreciate the real interpretation.

He pointed out that I was reading an interpretation and not the original.I checked a concordance and it gave me the word "Seized"which came close to the word he provided which was "Grab".Grab or Siezed either way they imply force,I just dont want to mislead because I dont understand hebrew.

I read here sound ;social ,cultural reasons for the victim to marry the criminal.If it was rape I have no conflict with the character of GOD and submit to his will.

Along my debate I realized that this wasnt about scripture because there are so many other verses that non believers use to attack our faith,This is about being humble to the will of GOD whether we like it or not,Just like abraham took isaac as a sacrifice.

Edited March 9, 2011 by BeganForever