loosing salvation

[Guest man]

I guess this just hits me because salvation depends on God, and somehow I feel like I'd be hurting Him by saying I could lose it -- that sounds like a lack of trust in His ability it keep it.

It's not about trusting His ability to keep it, it's about ours.

That's why He said, "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

"

There's also a statement about those who endure to the end.

[kross]

Then why would Christ tell us differently?

Revelation 3:5

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

It seems to me that those who do not overcome will be removed, meaning that they were in the Book of Life at one point.

This passage doesn't say that JESUS will blot anyone out of the book of life. It is a promise that those who overcome will not be blotted out of the book of life. You have to reverse engineer it to say that it implies that there are those who will not persevere and will be blotted out. In this case, you can not do that.

There is a promise from JESUS written about by Paul from one letter to another to another, salvation is a gift from GOD. All who are given this gift will persevere to the end. And all those who persevere to the end will not have their names blotted from the book of life in which their names have been written since the foundations of the earth, when the book was sealed.

Now, whether you feel that the names are written in that book as a result of GOD seeing into the future ans writing the names of those who would choose HIM or if HE wrote the names of those HE would choose, this scripture is a promise from JESUS that those who persevere will be rewarded. It is most certainly not a threat that if you do not persevere, you will be dealt with harshly.

But, those who do not persevere will be dealt with harshly because their names will not be found written in the book of life that was sealed from the foundations of the earth.

[kross]

I guess this just hits me because salvation depends on God, and somehow I feel like I'd be hurting Him by saying I could lose it -- that sounds like a lack of trust in His ability it keep it.

It's not about trusting His ability to keep it, it's about ours.

That's why He said, "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

"

There's also a statement about those who endure to the end.

You keep trusting in your ability and I will keep trusting in GOD to overcome my weakness. For when I am weak HE is strong. Therefore I will boast all the more in my weakness that HE might be seen as strong.

I know with an absolute certainty that I can not keep myself saved. I am a weak and foolish human. If I can not trust in HIM to keep me, than I will surely fail and pass into the very pits of HELL FIRE. Yet I know that this will not occur for my trust is in HIM who promises to never leave me or forsake me. I am saved, justified, glorified, and sanctified in HIS promises alone.

THANK YOU JESUS

[Guest man]

Then why would Christ tell us differently?

Revelation 3:5

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

It seems to me that those who do not overcome will be removed, meaning that they were in the Book of Life at one point.

This passage doesn't say that JESUS will blot anyone out of the book of life. It is a promise that those who overcome will not be blotted out of the book of life. You have to reverse engineer it to say that it implies that there are those who will not persevere and will be blotted out. In this case, you can not do that.

What it's actually saying is that those who do not endure to the end or perservere will be blotted out.

Believe whatever you want, but that's what it says.

[kross]

Then why would Christ tell us differently?

Revelation 3:5

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

It seems to me that those who do not overcome will be removed, meaning that they were in the Book of Life at one point.

This passage doesn't say that JESUS will blot anyone out of the book of life. It is a promise that those who overcome will not be blotted out of the book of life. You have to reverse engineer it to say that it implies that there are those who will not persevere and will be blotted out. In this case, you can not do that.

What it's actually saying is that those who do not endure to the end or perservere will be blotted out.

Believe whatever you want, but that's what it says.

No it does not. What it says is that those who persevere to the end will not be blotted out. Read it. That is what it says.

What it says to you...

[Guest man]

Then why would Christ tell us differently?

Revelation 3:5

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

It seems to me that those who do not overcome will be removed, meaning that they were in the Book of Life at one point.

This passage doesn't say that JESUS will blot anyone out of the book of life. It is a promise that those who overcome will not be blotted out of the book of life. You have to reverse engineer it to say that it implies that there are those who will not persevere and will be blotted out. In this case, you can not do that.

What it's actually saying is that those who do not endure to the end or perservere will be blotted out.

Believe whatever you want, but that's what it says.

No it does not. What it says is that those who persevere to the end will not be blotted out. Read it. That is what it says.

What it says to you...

Ok, well let me ask you a question.

What will happen to those who do not perservere?

There's only one logical answer.

[Guest]

.... those who do not endure to the end or persevere will be blotted out ....

Amen!

Talking Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:13

He Is Our Sure Hope

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24-25

When We Cleave

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:11-13

Glory! Glory! Glory!

Praise The Name Of Jesus!

>>>>>()<<<<<

NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD

What can wash away my sin?

Nothing but the blood of Jesus;

What can make me whole again?

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Oh! precious is the flow

That makes me white as snow;

No other fount I know,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

For my pardon, this I see,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus;

For my cleansing this my plea,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Oh! precious is the flow

That makes me white as snow;

No other fount I know,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Nothing can for sin atone,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus;

Naught of good that I have done,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Oh! precious is the flow

That makes me white as snow;

No other fount I know,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

This is all my hope and peace,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus;

This is all my righteousness,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Oh! precious is the flow

That makes me white as snow;

No other fount I know,

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Now by this I

[canuckamuck]

This is an excellent and well thought out thread. Thank you Rhonda Lou, for your eloquence in considering both angles of this mystery.

I think every Christian has a bit of a shudder when they see passages that tell them their salvation is not necessarily guaranteed. The Hebrews 6:6 line about falling away and being irredeemable is one. A few others have been pointed out, Particularly by Man.

My comment on this today is that if I pay attention to my spirit when I consider this mystery, I can feel from what angle comes fear, and from what angle comes the peace that passes all understanding. If Jesus is the surety of my salvation and I have not rejected Him with my mouth (for that is where we defile ourselves) or my heart, I cannot see where in the Bible my salvation is threatened. But when someone brings up these verses they make me wonder. I wonder because I know I am imperfect, I wonder because I have made bad decisions, I wonder because I can't go a day without doing something that can be defined as sin. How big is my sin, where is line of "fallen away"? All of this leads to a cycle of doubt not faith. Does the Kingdom of the Lord prosper in my doubt, or does my enemy advance against me. He who makes me doubt is an enemy of my faith. I am sad when I see lifelong Christians on their deathbed still wondering whether or not they are saved. Where is the the joy?

It is one thing to have the fear of the Lord which comes with belief in His divinity and righteousness. But I think doubt brings a different fear, a spirit we did not receive from the Lord. There seems to be confusion between these two.

However, it is my belief that those who continue to make Christians ponder the reality of their salvation are not doing the Kingdom any benefit. There must be a point where we can walk in the freedom and the promises of the Bible. What good is the helmet of salvation if we are not allowed to try it on. We must take a step from the fear and trembling with which we entered in, and be filled with faith. Not faith in ourselves, but faith that Christ has given us an eternal gift, a bridge to the Father which He will not take away for the casual faltering of the flesh.

I believe you can choose to discard your salvation but this will not happen without an act of our will. I think you must trust God like your Father, He knows you better than you know yourself. My earthly father would endure a lot before he could be convinced I am against him, how much more my Father in Heaven.

[godrulz]

The Bible teaches conditional vs unconditional eternal security (believers are secure, but it is possible to fall away or apostasize through godless unbelief, rejecting great light).

Calvinism/TULIP is deterministic/decretal/monergistic. POTS makes sense in the system, but the problem is a negation of genuine free will (LFW) in favor of compatibilism.

Free will theisms (Arminianism/Open Theism) sees that the saving power and grace of God can be resisted before conversion (universalism is not true), and that the keeping power and grace of the Spirit can also be rejected after conversion (OSAS is not true; we are not robots).

Heb. 3; 6; 10 deals with apostasy, stern warnings to believers about the possibility of falling away (cf. I Jn. 5:11-13; Jn. 3:16 and Jn. 3:36).

The context of Heb. 6:4-6 is Jewish Christians (the phrases can only apply to genuine Christians) who reverted back to the shadows/types of Judaism (due to persecution, doubt, etc.) and renounced Christ. This is a stern warning about apostasy/falling away (cf. an evangelical who converts to atheism, Satanism, Islam, Mormonism, etc.).

There is a remedy from apostasy and God's grace and love is vast. The hardest sinners can come to Christ or come back to Him. In this case, they could not be renewed as long as they persisted in their fallen state. It does not preclude absolutely the possibility of some coming back to their senses.

Godless unbelief persisted in unto death is fatal. Honest doubts, fleshly sins, isolated lapses (Peter) do not constitute falling away, rejecting Christ and great light with a hard heart.

Some say that if one does not persevere, it is evidence they were never saved. This is true in some vs all cases.

Judas (called an apostle who later became a son of perdition) and Charles Templeton (former prominent evangelist like Billy Graham) are classic e.g. of apostasy.

This former OSAS Baptist gives good exegetical evidence for a non-OSAS view:

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Son-Robert-Shank/dp/1556610912

[pokemaughan]

But then there's this,

Matthew 7

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