loosing salvation

[kross]

It is not a contradiction. I pointed out to you that JESUS was speaking to a particular congregation. I than pointed out that there are churches with people who are not saved in them. Two different points. Sorry that you could not follow them. I will try to do better.

Yes, please continue, because you're making my arguments for me........whether you know it or not.

As I explained very clearly, I do not know what goes on in the heart and mind of someone who thinks they are saved and are not. I can not know that. I can only know what it is to be a saved, sanctified, called out child of the HOLY GOD.

So tell me, what is it that you are doing differently from the ones who believe and are not?

I walk by the SPIRIT. Live my life by how HE leads me.

You seem to think that means that my name will not be blotted out of the book of life unless I fall away. I submit to you that my name would never have been written in the book of life if I was going to fall away.

Sorry you feel the need to argue.

You keep trying to make one point that simply isn't true. The verse we are discussing still only carries in it a promise to those who persevere. You choose to assume the other side of something without any foundation for the assumption other than "if one is true, than the other must be true" and that is not true.

While I am spending the time, I will ask you the same question;

The doxology of Jude (at the end of the book of Jude) states that HE is able to keep you from falling and to present you blameless before the throne.

Is HE willing to keep you from falling and to present you blameless before the throne? Or do you believe HE has the power to keep you from falling but is not willing to use it?

[Guest man]

It is not a contradiction. I pointed out to you that JESUS was speaking to a particular congregation. I than pointed out that there are churches with people who are not saved in them. Two different points. Sorry that you could not follow them. I will try to do better.

Yes, please continue, because you're making my arguments for me........whether you know it or not.

As I explained very clearly, I do not know what goes on in the heart and mind of someone who thinks they are saved and are not. I can not know that. I can only know what it is to be a saved, sanctified, called out child of the HOLY GOD.

So tell me, what is it that you are doing differently from the ones who believe and are not?

I walk by the SPIRIT. Live my life by how HE leads me.

And how does one do that?

[kross]

It is not a contradiction. I pointed out to you that JESUS was speaking to a particular congregation. I than pointed out that there are churches with people who are not saved in them. Two different points. Sorry that you could not follow them. I will try to do better.

Yes, please continue, because you're making my arguments for me........whether you know it or not.

As I explained very clearly, I do not know what goes on in the heart and mind of someone who thinks they are saved and are not. I can not know that. I can only know what it is to be a saved, sanctified, called out child of the HOLY GOD.

So tell me, what is it that you are doing differently from the ones who believe and are not?

I walk by the SPIRIT. Live my life by how HE leads me.

And how does one do that?

OH NO, you get to answer my question first. Is HE willing to keep you from falling?

[Guest man]

I walk by the SPIRIT. Live my life by how HE leads me.

And how does one do that?

OH NO, you get to answer my question first. Is HE willing to keep you from falling?

What's the matter?

What are you afraid of? It's just a question. You call yourself a teacher and when I ask you, "how does one walk in the Spirit?", you refuse to answer.

I find that odd.

[kross]

I walk by the SPIRIT. Live my life by how HE leads me.

And how does one do that?

OH NO, you get to answer my question first. Is HE willing to keep you from falling?

What's the matter?

What are you afraid of? It's just a question. You call yourself a teacher and when I ask you, "how does one walk in the Spirit?", you refuse to answer.

I find that odd.

Please, don't give me that kindergarten "what's a matter. you afraid" nonsense.

You think you are going to lead me by the nose. Not going to happen. I am more than willing to go back and forth with you for the next 100 years. But it will be back and forth. Either you answer my questions or I will not answer yours.

You will learn more from answering the questions I ask than from me answerring yours.

[godrulz]

Just because God allows something, does not mean He desires or intends it (Hitler/Jews; rape and murder of kids).

God wills things that do not come to pass (salvation of all men; sexual purity of believers; etc. His will/desire is not causative/coerced in the areas of salvation of living morally). We can chose contrary to His will. He allows this, but there are consequences to not submitting to His will. God does not always get His way (theodicy falls apart if one rejects a free will defense).

[Guest man]

Please, don't give me that kindergarten "what's a matter. you afraid" nonsense.

You think you are going to lead me by the nose. Not going to happen. I am more than willing to go back and forth with you for the next 100 years. But it will be back and forth. Either you answer my questions or I will not answer yours.

Your attitude suggests that you're not a patient man. Not a good quality for someone who thinks of themself as a teacher.

You will learn more from answering the questions I ask than from me answerring yours.

Not very humble either.

But you're right. The more you say, the more you establish my point.

It's ok if you are unable to answer my question. I just thought....................

[Rick-Parker]

man, ever the artful dodger.

[Guest man]

man, ever the artful dodger.

I've had good teachers.

[kross]

Just because God allows something, does not mean He desires or intends it (Hitler/Jews; rape and murder of kids).

God wills things that do not come to pass (salvation of all men; sexual purity of believers; etc. His will/desire is not causative/coerced in the areas of salvation of living morally). We can chose contrary to His will. He allows this, but there are consequences to not submitting to His will. God does not always get His way (theodicy falls apart if one rejects a free will defense).

If you say so.

Peace