What would have kept Adam from giving his life as a sacrifice for Eve?

[Ovedya]

1) There is no Biblical evidence that Adam was created with eternal life. Eternal life is of God, it is uncreated and indestructable. As such, only the tree of life could have given Adam eternal life. There is nothing inherently corruptible about death (that is, of growing old and dying). Death is a part of the natural cycle and is evident in all of creation. Therefore, natural death is not "un-natural"

Therefore,

2) Adam would not have been a complete substitutionary sacrifice for Eve, because he lacked the eternal life of God.

I disagree. Jesus was only a sufficient sacrifice for man because he was fully a man. Being immortal is not the prerequisite for sin sacrifice.

There is no evidence that anything ever died in the garden, however you are right that God removed them from the garden so that they could not attain eternal life in their sinful state by eating from the tree of life. It appears immortality was an option for Adam before he sinned, but was he immortal before the sin is debatable.

Immortality does not equate to eternal life, however, since, having eternal life, we are not immortal.

As to Jesus, that which qualified Him a sufficient sacrifice was not His humanity, but His sinless humanity. As the Lamb of God he was examined, just as the Passover lamb was examined for three days, and found to be without blemish and spotless. His sinless humanity was, by virtue, due to His divinity, however, and as such could only be in completeness, a fully qualified sacrifice for the sins of humanity.

While Adam may have had a perfect humanity by virtue of creation alone, he nevertheless did not have the divine nature, which was embodied in the tree of life. Therefore, at best, his sacrifice would have only been a temporary substitution for sin - just as the sin sacrifice in the tabernacle was only temporary.

Some plants actually require death for the germination of the next generation. As Jesus pointed out in John 12:24, "...Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit." Then in 1 Cor. 15:36: "Foolish man, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies." So it seems illogical for God to create such plant life without death being a natural factor in the ecological cycle.

[Ovedya]

That's a good question. Adam hadn't yet eaten from the tree of life. Does that mean he would have died eventually, had he not sinned?

I believe so.

There is nothing good or bad about natural death - expiration - it it that which we attach to it.

[~candice~]

1) There is no Biblical evidence that Adam was created with eternal life. Eternal life is of God, it is uncreated and indestructable. As such, only the tree of life could have given Adam eternal life. There is nothing inherently corruptible about death (that is, of growing old and dying). Death is a part of the natural cycle and is evident in all of creation. Therefore, natural death is not "un-natural"

Therefore,

2) Adam would not have been a complete substitutionary sacrifice for Eve, because he lacked the eternal life of God.

I disagree. Jesus was only a sufficient sacrifice for man because he was fully a man. Being immortal is not the prerequisite for sin sacrifice.

There is no evidence that anything ever died in the garden, however you are right that God removed them from the garden so that they could not attain eternal life in their sinful state by eating from the tree of life. It appears immortality was an option for Adam before he sinned, but was he immortal before the sin is debatable.

Immortality does not equate to eternal life, however, since, having eternal life, we are not immortal.

As to Jesus, that which qualified Him a sufficient sacrifice was not His humanity, but His sinless humanity. As the Lamb of God he was examined, just as the Passover lamb was examined for three days, and found to be without blemish and spotless. His sinless humanity was, by virtue, due to His divinity, however, and as such could only be in completeness, a fully qualified sacrifice for the sins of humanity.

While Adam may have had a perfect humanity by virtue of creation alone, he nevertheless did not have the divine nature, which was embodied in the tree of life. Therefore, at best, his sacrifice would have only been a temporary substitution for sin - just as the sin sacrifice in the tabernacle was only temporary.

Some plants actually require death for the germination of the next generation. As Jesus pointed out in John 12:24, "...Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit." Then in 1 Cor. 15:36: "Foolish man, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies." So it seems illogical for God to create such plant life without death being a natural factor in the ecological cycle.

Agreed. Adam was just a man, he was NOT gloried, nor was he in any way equal to Christ, even before the fall. Adam would not have been a perfect lasting sacrifice. He could not stand in the shoes of Christ.

This is dangerous ground.

[WolfBitn]

As to Jesus, that which qualified Him a sufficient sacrifice was not His humanity, but His sinless humanity. As the Lamb of God he was examined, just as the Passover lamb was examined for three days, and found to be without blemish and spotless. His sinless humanity was, by virtue, due to His divinity, however, and as such could only be in completeness, a fully qualified sacrifice for the sins of humanity.

While Adam may have had a perfect humanity by virtue of creation alone, he nevertheless did not have the divine nature, which was embodied in the tree of life. Therefore, at best, his sacrifice would have only been a temporary substitution for sin - just as the sin sacrifice in the tabernacle was only temporary.

Animals were at one time an acceptable sacrifice for sin... so youre saying they werent really acceptable because they werent sinless humanity?

As for foolish and unlearned quesitons my thought is that this is a question for the learned and deals with our human nature and what we should NOW strive to be

Love... agape... the love to die for someone

(edited by moderator - issues with chat should be addressed directly with chat admins)

And WHY the supposed witch hunting when someone brings up a question that makes us dig into the bible, like im a devil or a thief or a heretic?

Why quesiton whether i believe Jesus is GOD based on this quesiton

i DO KNOW He is God, but im bothered that people would so subtly accuse over this

Can ANYONE show a bible passage showing that the sin sacrifice HAD to be God BEFORE the fall of Adam? ...or is this a valid question and something to ponder on 'no greater love does a man have than to lay down his life for his friends'?

Got bless... lets not be afraid of questions

i love you all amen

Edited July 29, 2009 by EricH

[WolfBitn]

That's a good question. Adam hadn't yet eaten from the tree of life. Does that mean he would have died eventually, had he not sinned?

I believe so.

There is nothing good or bad about natural death - expiration - it it that which we attach to it.

If he had never ate of the tree how would he have died if death had never entered the world?

Death was a punishment for eating form the tree...

[WolfBitn]

If he had never ate of the tree how would he have died if death had never entered the world?

Death was a punishment for eating form the tree...

A couple points...

1. according to your thread about Faith and Science, death had been a part of the world since millions, or billions, of years prior to Adam

2. The punishment could have been his spiritual death not his physical one since he didnt die physically right away, but he did die spiritually

so you do agree then he was spiritually alive?

[ayin jade]

Animals were at one time an acceptable sacrifice for sin... so youre saying they werent really acceptable because they werent sinless humanity?

The animal sacrifices were only acceptable because He ordained them, as a foreshadowing of Jesus.

Can ANYONE show a bible passage showing that the sin sacrifice HAD to be God BEFORE the fall of Adam?

I can.

Revelation 13

8 And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.

[Ovedya]

If he had never ate of the tree how would he have died if death had never entered the world?

Death was a punishment for eating form the tree...

A couple points...

1. according to your thread about Faith and Science, death had been a part of the world since millions, or billions, of years prior to Adam

2. The punishment could have been his spiritual death not his physical one since he didnt die physically right away, but he did die spiritually

so you do agree then he was spiritually alive?

I don't. The human spirit is apart from the soul of man. Adam had a human spirit, but it was not yet filled with the divine life of God. Consider God's reason for blocking the way to the tree of life: "Lest he stretch forth his hand and take and live forever."

[Ovedya]

That's a good question. Adam hadn't yet eaten from the tree of life. Does that mean he would have died eventually, had he not sinned?

I believe so.

There is nothing good or bad about natural death - expiration - it it that which we attach to it.

If he had never ate of the tree how would he have died if death had never entered the world?

Death was a punishment for eating form the tree...

Disconnection from God's intimate fellowship is "spiritual death." Otherwise the serpent was right when he told Eve, "You shall surely not die."

[WolfBitn]

Can you show us a Bible passage showing that the perfect sacrifice could be anything but Jesus?

1.Leviticus 22:21

And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.