Death in the Garden

[~candice~]

Well the Bible sesms to indicate that both man and beast were herbivorous prior to the fall of man in the Garden of Eden (Gen. 1:29-30).

Shiloh -

When would you say that certain animals became carnivorous?

(Which does involve an anatomical, physiological, and behavioral change.)

I can't speak for shiloh, but I think that the animals were carnivorous BEFORE the fall...

[nebula]

I can't speak for shiloh, but I think that the animals were carnivorous BEFORE the fall...

I know.

But since he made the argument that they weren't, I was wondering what he believes/has studied about this. For it is something I do not understand.

[OneLight]

if animals were carnivores before the fall, why did God say He gave them herbs to eat and He didn't say anything about meat?

if animals were carnivores during the flood, what did they eat on the ark?

were people vegetarians until after the flood? gen 9:3 says God gave living things as meat for noah and his family.

i believe there were no carnivores until after the flood. God created in an instant; i believe He could change His creation in an instant, also.

This is how I read scripture also.

[nebula]

I'd still like my question explained, though.

[~candice~]

There are animals with very short life spans that are carnivores and rely on eating other animals to survive. Insects come to mind. Did the original insects live without food until after the flood?

*dangles a bird carrying a briefcase full of one hundred dollar bills infront of Shiloh*

[Guest shiloh357]

Well the Bible sesms to indicate that both man and beast were herbivorous prior to the fall of man in the Garden of Eden (Gen. 1:29-30).

Shiloh -

When would you say that certain animals became carnivorous?

(Which does involve an anatomical, physiological, and behavioral change.)

Any answer I give would be purely speculative as to when such change occurred. Something I would posit for consideration is that Isaiah tells us that during the Messianic Kingdom the lion will revert to eating straw like an ox and an infant will play by the hole of an asp. This will be without the benefit of eons of anatomical, physological or behavioral changes.

[Guest shiloh357]

There are animals with very short life spans that are carnivores and rely on eating other animals to survive. Insects come to mind. Did the original insects live without food until after the flood?

*dangles a bird carrying a briefcase full of one hundred dollar bills infront of Shiloh*

LOL

You are asking me questions I cannot possibly answer definitively due to the fact that I do not know what conditions were like before the flood.

It needs to be understood that a univesal cataclysmic flood like Noah's most likely changed more than just the topological landscape. There are all kinds of evirons that were above water prior to the flood that have been under water for millennia. To my knowledge, the only animals Noah saved on the ark were land dwelling mammals and birds and possibly certain kinds of reptiles.

I do not have an answer on the issue of insects and what they ate during the flood or if the insects were carnivorous before the flood. You are asking me a scientific question and I am not a scientist.

[Guest shiloh357]

if animals were carnivores during the flood, what did they eat on the ark?

It is my personal conviction that most if not all of the animals were more or less in a state of hybernation during their time on the ark. It would have saved space on the ark if Noah did not have to store enough food for all of the animals for at least year. It makes sense that God brought the animals to Noah and his family, they loaded them on to the ark, and the animals simply went to sleep. It feeding all of the animals every day would have been a monumental task for Noah and his family. Hybernation would simply be more practical since the rocking of the ark on turbulent waters would have been frightening for the animals thus making it more dangerous for Noah and his family.

[Guest]

.... What did the animals eat? For example, the whales in the ocean, did they not eat plankton during this time? Animals that are carnivores, did they not kill in order to eat meat? Birds who live on insects, did they not eat insects? Doesn't this all require death? I am confused.

Either.... the animals were all herbivores, or, animal death occurred before human death and it is human death only referred to in Romans 5, or, such a short period of time passed that the animals didn't even have a chance to eat ....

Well I Find Three Possible Clues

The Sixth Day (One Of My Wife's Favorites!)

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Genesis 1:29-30

Leading To The Ship's Provisions

And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

Genesis 6:21

And Than Steaks And Ham Hocks After The Flood (Another One Of My Wife's Favorites!)

And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Genesis 9:1-4

And Than Paradise Restored By The Return Of The KING

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 65:25

[~candice~]

if animals were carnivores during the flood, what did they eat on the ark?

It is my personal conviction that most if not all of the animals were more or less in a state of hybernation during their time on the ark. ...

That's OK as a personal conviction, but not as a conclusion from bible study .

This Isaiah passage just keeps popping up all over the place, perhaps it deserves it's own thread. I don't take it literally. (Or perhaps there is already a thread, I will go searching...)