Apostasy

[OneLight]

The doctrines are 1) Forbidding to marry, Never has there been a time like it is today when in society that people are cohabitating with one another instead of marrying one another and this is a no no in the eyes of God. Even ministers today are giving their counsel that they shouldn't get married a certain time condoning cohabitation. I know this because I know several ministers that have said it within my prescence but to me that was a last days sign.

While I agree with what you are saying, I also believe that God has allowed some to not desire a relationship. This cannot be confused with the above. Paul teaches that if a man can not walk in such a manner, then let them marry. I agree. Yet, he also points out that if they can, then they will be able to devote their life completely to Christ without the responsibility of a family. I also believe this to be true.

2) Abstaining from meats The Spirit said, that there would be those who would come speaking lies in hypocrisy not in the truth. In society and in the church it is being taught to abstain from meats. One has to be about skin and bones to get approval from others. I have heard alot of ministers say that certain foods you aught to stay away from while putting down all that are overweight in the congregation. The true fact is that God created all food to be recieved with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused, if it be recieved with thanksgiving. People in the world are so into staying fit and fitness machines is a booming business today. But this mindset has found it's way into the churches as some churches have put exercise equipment for those to workout with in the church. Some have put a place to do yoga, tai chi and the what not. Being in good shape is not wrong but the Spirit has told us in the last day that bodily exercise profiteth little that dosen't mean one shouldn't engage in it but it want cause one to live forever as godliness is both profitable in this life and in the next life.

Again, though I agree with what you say, we can not turn our backs on fasting. Fasting, which was the norm in Christs day, has been forgotten by many today. This is very important to our growth in Christ.

[OneLight]

There is so much corruption in the teachings brought forth today that it is hard for those who seek the truth to find it. New Age has found it's place in many churches. Love to all, as in the Emergent church and the Unitarian Universalism, have placed a huge stumbling block in front of those who seek, all in the name of love. There are many different denominations who have left their first love and have turned to the world for acceptance, all thinking that if they can just get them into church, they will see the truth, which, in turn, has done just the opposite. The church has taken onto themselves the world, not the world Christ. I see the church conforming to the world more and more. They have, instead of not being conformed, have accepted they ways of the world in order to bring in the lost. Is this the correct way? It can't be, because the Holy Spirit is will convict the world of sin, not us. We are to bring them the truth and allow His Spirit to work this truth in them. We need to return to our first love, which is Christ and His word.

[Guest shiloh357]

People in the world are so into staying fit and fitness machines is a booming business today. But this mindset has found it's way into the churches as some churches have put exercise equipment for those to workout with in the church. Some have put a place to do yoga, tai chi and the what not. Being in good shape is not wrong but the Spirit has told us in the last day that bodily exercise profiteth little that dosen't mean one shouldn't engage in it but it want cause one to live forever as godliness is both profitable in this life and in the next life.

Just a minor point, but when Paul was talking about "bodily excersize, he was not talking about working out. The Greek term for "bodily excersize" refers to religious observances or rituals conducted in the flesh. He is was contrasting fleshly religious acts that give the appearance of godliness with true godliness.

[James M]

In the days before tv we knew our neighbours and did spend time toghether ,even looked foward to go to church.With the tv,videogames, internet,mobile phones we do this thing from a distance. We become more isolated from each other for eg we can 'go' to church through pictures streamed on the internet.

This isolation makes us think that the believers in God and Jesus are becoming less ,that the faith is diminishing.

When we watch the news on tv we hear about bad news most of the time.

Good actions and faith in God does not need to be advertised as our faith in Him and our actions,our personal ones affect many people.Therefore we are bombared with tv series telling us that there are good demons,adverts which tell us we can be rulers of the world,that to divorce or have an abortion it is alright.

Blessings

I wonder if Jesus came today, and asked us to leave our TV, Computers, cell phone, cars, and jobs; How many of us would do just like the Disciples did 2k years ago?

[OneLight]

In the days before tv we knew our neighbours and did spend time toghether ,even looked foward to go to church.With the tv,videogames, internet,mobile phones we do this thing from a distance. We become more isolated from each other for eg we can 'go' to church through pictures streamed on the internet.

This isolation makes us think that the believers in God and Jesus are becoming less ,that the faith is diminishing.

When we watch the news on tv we hear about bad news most of the time.

Good actions and faith in God does not need to be advertised as our faith in Him and our actions,our personal ones affect many people.Therefore we are bombared with tv series telling us that there are good demons,adverts which tell us we can be rulers of the world,that to divorce or have an abortion it is alright.

Blessings

I wonder if Jesus came today, and asked us to leave our TV, Computers, cell phone, cars, and jobs; How many of us would do just like the Disciples did 2k years ago?

I would hope that if Christ personally called any of His children, they would go. I know I would in a heartbeat. He knows this too.

[Smalcald]

ordaining women and divorced men?? how could they???

Sure it is so accepted today that we don't think twice about it. Yet 50 years ago it did not happen, ever. We see the influence of secular society on the Church in these areas.

i guess the sarcasm of my statement did not quite come across in my written words.

these churches may not agree with your interpretation of certain passages of Scripture, but that doesn't mean they are straying from the Word.

I agree. Also we could get really sidetracked debating them, which was not the point of this thread.

I guess we should back up a little because we are all talking about a "falling away" yet I am not sure we have a definition of what that really means?

[EricH]

People in the world are so into staying fit and fitness machines is a booming business today. But this mindset has found it's way into the churches as some churches have put exercise equipment for those to workout with in the church. Some have put a place to do yoga, tai chi and the what not. Being in good shape is not wrong but the Spirit has told us in the last day that bodily exercise profiteth little that dosen't mean one shouldn't engage in it but it want cause one to live forever as godliness is both profitable in this life and in the next life.

Just a minor point, but when Paul was talking about "bodily excersize, he was not talking about working out. The Greek term for "bodily excersize" refers to religious observances or rituals conducted in the flesh. He is was contrasting fleshly religious acts that give the appearance of godliness with true godliness.

Great insight

[~Magdalena~]

There is so much corruption in the teachings brought forth today that it is hard for those who seek the truth to find it. New Age has found it's place in many churches. Love to all, as in the Emergent church and the Unitarian Universalism, have placed a huge stumbling block in front of those who seek, all in the name of love. There are many different denominations who have left their first love and have turned to the world for acceptance, all thinking that if they can just get them into church, they will see the truth, which, in turn, has done just the opposite. The church has taken onto themselves the world, not the world Christ. I see the church conforming to the world more and more. They have, instead of not being conformed, have accepted they ways of the world in order to bring in the lost. Is this the correct way? It can't be, because the Holy Spirit is will convict the world of sin, not us. We are to bring them the truth and allow His Spirit to work this truth in them. We need to return to our first love, which is Christ and His word.

These do not pose the true dangers. They only catalyze them. The true dangers, the real deceptions -- the things that can and would (and sadly, in some cases, HAVE) deceived the "very elect" -- would be the things forged in reaction to those things. If we wish to "not remain ignorant of the enemy's devices" then we must not look to what gets thrown in front of our eyes and appears as if obvious, but what results from that, to find where the enemy hides and lurks and what he conceals there.

Love does not originate in the world; least of all, "love to all". It originates with Christ, and we throw it away at our own peril and the peril of all souls whom He died to save. We must never forget that the real offense of the Cross does not lie in some religious repackaging of the same old garbage we've been fed all our lives, "Be good OR ELSE," but in the glorious truth of the GOSPEL, the GOOD news for SINNERS. What would this good news be, and why does it offend so much, and in particular, offend THE RELIGIOUS rather than the "worldlings"? Plain and simply, because the Gospel takes the power right out of our hands. It announces what GOD has done, the glory of which lays us in the dust. We don't have any "power" there; we simply act as one load of losers and beggars telling another load of losers and beggars where to get treated like winners and fed, anyway. The gospel consists, quite simply, of the announcement that God is faithful to the faithless, has mercy on the merciless, and acts righteously toward the unrighteous, returning good for our evil. It consists of proclaiming bread for thieves, pardon for the unquestionably guilty, and love for rebels. Everyone gets "paid" the same. Banquet seats for people who have no right to a ticket because they are dirty and sinful. Sinners, come, for the Lamb of God has paid the bill and it’s not going to appear on our charge anywhere, ever. And as a free gift, we literally have no obligation whatsoever either TO receive it or FOR receiving it. We get urged to receive it for the joy it will bring, but remaining in need of it after receiving it does not result in the gift being snatched away and a voice from heaven suddenly proclaiming it All Just A Trick, "sorry, that's only for those who demonstrate, in response to receiving it, that they really never needed it in the first place." That would be "Dumbo's magick feather" religion, Cain's fruit basket, not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

But human beings, especially "religious" ones, don't want that. The Pharisees had the same issue, why do you think they rejected Christ? We don't want a God who loves our enemies, who pours out gracious kindness and mercy on them and bids us to do likewise in order to demonstrate ourselves HIS children. No no no ... we want one who will come in flaming fire and take vengeance and put them in their place because how DARE they mock US and how DARE they contend against US and how DARE they bring that lawless Gospel stuff around confusing everyone with the idea that God ALREADY loves them before the foundation of the world in Christ -- no, durnit!, you gotta crawl first and be sorry and EARN that love like ... like ... well, like WE DID!! Only we didn't, people. We didn't. We NEVER did. We only crawled and felt remorse for our sins and moaned our wretchedness because we got LOVED by God FIRST ... not the other way around. We only learn love because He first loves US -- while we remained yet sinners; while we remained rebels and enemies of His throne, then and there He laid down His life for US.

Of course we should never return like dogs to our own vomit or like pigs to our own muck, but that does not mean we should forget precisely from what cesspit we got taken, or by Whose method. (And indeed, if we did not get lifted by Love, His Love, and only His Love, but worked our way out of ruin through "conviction", then we have not entered through the True Door, and instead have climbed in some other way, as all thieves and robbers before us, and we have not the faith of righteous Abel, but only the prideful fruit basket of Cain who slew him.)

Legalism, not antinomianism, remains the true blight destroying the churches today, and those who ignore this blight and conflate legalism with "holiness" and "obedience" do so at their own peril, as well as the taint and peril of every soul they influence thereafter. For in this alone does the Gospel get discarded and replaced by a return to lawkeeping for reference rather than relationship. And in this resides the true essence of apostasy as defined by the New Testament, where a very angel of light himself, as it were, comes down from heaven bearing "another gospel" and instead of turning our backs like Paul admonishes, we embrace it, because we don't really understand God's love for us and we still think we must make ourselves good somehow, make ourselves obey, make ourselves holy, to be His. Cain's fruit basket all over again.

To clarify, let's revisit the simple classic Lutheran-style division of Law vs. Gospel here:

ALL of scripture is EITHER what God commands/demands under penalty OR what He promises/provides freely by grace.

Here is Law and Gospel contrasted: "Do" or "Done." Moses or Jesus. God the accountant older brother OR God the Father of the Prodigal. Advice OR announcement. Sinai OR the cross. Threat OR comfort. Blessing OR curse. You do it or else -- OR -- God did and praise. Martin Luther himself stated that if we "get" this, we demonstrate ourselves true theologians (those who rightly handle and divide the Word of Truth) even without the degree. So if you don't know this, learn it; and if you learn it, use it.

~Magz, usin' it RIGHT HERE.

p.s. some of the wording used herein to express these ideas has been shamelessly pilfered and paraphrased from an excellent article on the subject of law and grace, and what the Gospel is and isn't, by the "Internet Monk", which you can read here for yourselves: http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-lawgospel-rant

Enjoy!

Edited August 4, 2009 by ~Magdalena~

[OneLight]

ordaining women and divorced men?? how could they???

Sure it is so accepted today that we don't think twice about it. Yet 50 years ago it did not happen, ever. We see the influence of secular society on the Church in these areas.

i guess the sarcasm of my statement did not quite come across in my written words.

these churches may not agree with your interpretation of certain passages of Scripture, but that doesn't mean they are straying from the Word.

I agree. Also we could get really sidetracked debating them, which was not the point of this thread.

I guess we should back up a little because we are all talking about a "falling away" yet I am not sure we have a definition of what that really means?

Good point. To me, it means those who believe in Christ, but are fence sitters, if not more then that, that turn from their first love and follow the false teachings that are being brought to us in many forms.

What are your thoughts?

[Guest shiloh357]

if you are using falling away and apostasy as interchangable terms, it is important to note that there are degrees of falling away, but only degree of apostasy. Apostasy is a 180 degree turn in the opposite direction. It is a full rejection of the Lord.

It is not likely that someone wakes up one morning and apostasizes all at once. Usually, it is the product of a continuous falling away over time.