Apostasy

[Guest man]

I would say that we are, for those who are saved, we are all saved with the same faith. Those who try to enter through another way are not saved, nor do they have the same faith. For us who are saved, it is the doctrines that we follow that differ.

Having the same faith but following a different doctrine is not unity.

You are loosing your touch, man. If you notice, I am speaking of the unity of faith for salvation, no more.

You may be right.

If all who believe they are saved with the same faith, but follow a different doctrine, how can they be so sure they're saved?

There has to be unity in both doctrine and Spirit. If there isn't, then some of those who are following different doctrines are the ones who are trying to enter through a different way. What did you say about those people?

[OneLight]

I would say that we are, for those who are saved, we are all saved with the same faith. Those who try to enter through another way are not saved, nor do they have the same faith. For us who are saved, it is the doctrines that we follow that differ.

Having the same faith but following a different doctrine is not unity.

You are loosing your touch, man. If you notice, I am speaking of the unity of faith for salvation, no more.

You may be right.

If all who believe they are saved with the same faith, but follow a different doctrine, how can they be so sure they're saved?

There has to be unity in both doctrine and Spirit. If there isn't, then some of those who are following different doctrines are the ones who are trying to enter through a different way. What did you say about those people?

That I would agree with you in some of this. The faith that saves us is a unified faith, for there is no other way to be saved. Yet, after salvation, if one turns from the truth, is that not the same as falling away? There is a difference.

[Guest man]

I would say that we are, for those who are saved, we are all saved with the same faith. Those who try to enter through another way are not saved, nor do they have the same faith. For us who are saved, it is the doctrines that we follow that differ.

Having the same faith but following a different doctrine is not unity.

You are loosing your touch, man. If you notice, I am speaking of the unity of faith for salvation, no more.

You may be right.

If all who believe they are saved with the same faith, but follow a different doctrine, how can they be so sure they're saved?

There has to be unity in both doctrine and Spirit. If there isn't, then some of those who are following different doctrines are the ones who are trying to enter through a different way. What did you say about those people?

That I would agree with you in some of this. The faith that saves us is a unified faith, for there is no other way to be saved. Yet, after salvation, if one turns from the truth, is that not the same as falling away? There is a difference.

One doesn't have to reject the Lord in order for there to be a falling away. There are many who believe the false doctrine they follow is the truth. They believe in their hearts that they are saved.

The many different doctrines that are preached are a part of the falling away that is mentioned in the Word. There is only one true doctrine and unless that doctrine is adhered too, there is no unity.

This is my personal belief......there is only One true church, and that church is made up of individual believers from around the world. There is no one denomination that stands out as being the one true church. It is my belief that denominations are a part of the falling away.

[Smalcald]

When did denominations start?

In the year 800 did people even have a concept of different denominations?

When did the falling away start?

[Massorite]

Consider this, with all the conversation about what is going on today, what about the possibility that the main apostasy already happened many centuries ago?

For example, just a few questions.

Why was Polycarp burned at the stake in Rome but Anicetus survived for nearly a decade?

What are the wages of sin?

Can a religion that has been coupled with the power of the State remain pure?

Just consider these things.

To The King!

Impossible. The apostasy of bible prophecy will be a world wide apostasy in a one world wide religion that will be recognized by all nations of the world which has never happened in the past nor in the present. A quick research on Anicetus showed me that he spoken out against heresies such as Monetarism and Gnosticism, was open minded about the passover feast and died for his beliefs. What was so bad about him?

In the bible there is no such a thing as the separation of church and state. In the bible God meant for His people to be governed by a Theocracy.

No not really. In the bible God Himself said to let people in government govern;that we should not seek power, that we should be a separate people, God said that we are not of this world. IF we were to be a theocracy Christ would have been a secular King, but Christ who is God, the center of our faith did just the inverse and did not seek secular nor political power, but set up a spiritual kingdom. Now we are to be governed by a Theocracy in our day to day lives, that is the life of the day to day visible Church, which is demonstrated clearly in Acts. We are to worship daily, to share our food and take meals together daily, to take care of each other, we are to own our assets in common without private property, it should all belong to the Church.

But the fact is that would be total insanity to even bring up in today's congregations as we all totally reject all Church authority we are individualists who follow our own ways and desires. This of course is the problem.

A Theocracy that has a secular King is not and can not be a Theocracy. A Theocracy is a religious government that is lead by religious leaders who all believe in the same religious belief system. The only reason why God said " let the people in government govern" is because the people (Israelites) rejected God as their supreme leader and asked for an earthly King so they could be like other nations. And even then Saul who was their first King was a King who was the supreme leader of a Theocracy. We rejected the earthly Kingdom that God wanted for us and that is the only reason why God found it necessary to set up His Son as supreme leader of a Spiritual Kingdom But the day is coming when the Spiritual Kingdom will also be the same kind of Earthly Kingdom God wanted for us in the first place.

You should remember that in our not so far away future we will once again have a Theocracy and this time it will be world wide. With Jesus/God as our supreme leader. There will be no voting, no Parliament, no people governing government, no congress and so on. It will be only God/Jesus and Their rules, government regulations and laws. That will be governed by those whom they will choose to govern with them.

We will once again be like the church of Acts but only after great tribulation has arrived.

[Smalcald]

Oh okay I see where you are coming from. Yes I look forward to living in that theocracy under Christ!

But you know the Church in Acts functioned in a culture and government that was not Christian in fact that often hated them.

[OneLight]

Kind of makes one consider what Christ said in the The Parable of the Talents!

Matthew 25:14-30

For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord

[Massorite]

Oh okay I see where you are coming from. Yes I look forward to living in that theocracy under Christ!

But you know the Church in Acts functioned in a culture and government that was not Christian in fact that often hated them.

Oh I agree. They were a government within a government and that fact is what made them a threat to the ruling government. Which is why they were hated and it is going to happen again.

[Massorite]

Kind of makes one consider what Christ said in the The Parable of the Talents!

Matthew 25:14-30

For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord

[Massorite]

When did denominations start?

In the year 800 did people even have a concept of different denominations?

When did the falling away start?

I could be wrong but in the year 1050 there was a chism in the Catholic church and that was when the Eastern Orthadox Church was founded. I believe that was when the first orginized denominational church appeared. From there the rest is history.

By the year 800 the Jeruslem church was no more and the Catholic church that was based out of Rome was the only orginized church on earth.

As for the falling away I believe that we are having a kind of falling away as we speak. But I believe that the falling away the bible is talking about is a massive falling away in a realitively short time. Like in the future when the antichrist dose all of his wonders like calling fire down from heaven and coming back from the dead.