God's Character and War

[~candice~]

God is not an India-rubber Deity, able to love, comfort & succor, but not able to exercise holy justice and punishment for sins. He isn't all love & nothing else. He is love indeed but also a thrice-holy God Who hates the sin of His people & of His created order. In fact, truth to tell, the most outstanding example of God's holiness (since the Cross & the sacrifice of His Own Son for sins not His Own) is still ahead.....holiness & judgment intermingled & poured out at Armaggedon including 100-pound hailstones!! Watch out, unregenerate man, watch out! Rush to His sheltering arms while it is still day.

Wow, I've never quite looked at it like this before. I saw all the violence and war and death in the OT, without connecting that He also exacted this righteous judgment on His own Son. He sent Jesus, because He loved us. Embarassing to come to this awareness now after so much time .

[Fez]

A Godly love always protects...so how can a Child of Jesus Christ be a pacifist? pacifist=coward=eternal damnation Jesus was quite clear there will no cowards in Heaven.

You got to be kidding me, right?

Well, there goes the the whole early church straight into hell.

Huh? Huh? Press Forward that has to be one of the most provocative statements I have ever heard on these boards! A child of Jesus can be pretty much anything if the child is walking His walk, and please tell me where did Jesus EVER say that a pacifist was going to hell, or for that matter a coward?

Huh?

[hillsong_girl]

Ok...so just from scanning some of the posts on this topic...maybe a kind reminder to be respectful of each other is needed. There seems to be quite a bit of hostility on this thread.

Ok?

Anyway, the way I think of is like this:

God is merciful...but God is also just.

God is loving...but God also hates evil.

God is full of forgiveness...but God also judges.

Anyone see where I am going with this? God is perfect and we will never fully understand His ways, because they are above our ways. So when it comes to talking about these wars in the OT, we have to remember that God is a God of justice and maybe He was just using people to carry out His justice?

I'm just saying

[Press Forward]

A Godly love always protects...so how can a Child of Jesus Christ be a pacifist? pacifist=coward=eternal damnation Jesus was quite clear there will no cowards in Heaven.

You got to be kidding me, right?

Well, there goes the the whole early church straight into hell.

Huh? Huh? Press Forward that has to be one of the most provocative statements I have ever heard on these boards! A child of Jesus can be pretty much anything if the child is walking His walk, and please tell me where did Jesus EVER say that a pacifist was going to hell, or for that matter a coward?

Huh?

Revelation 21:8 NIV

[~candice~]

A Godly love always protects...so how can a Child of Jesus Christ be a pacifist? pacifist=coward=eternal damnation Jesus was quite clear there will no cowards in Heaven.

You got to be kidding me, right?

Well, there goes the the whole early church straight into hell.

Huh? Huh? Press Forward that has to be one of the most provocative statements I have ever heard on these boards! A child of Jesus can be pretty much anything if the child is walking His walk, and please tell me where did Jesus EVER say that a pacifist was going to hell, or for that matter a coward?

Huh?

Revelation 21:8 NIV

[Press Forward]

'Cowardly' in that passage is the word deilos (δειλός) in greek, which means timid or fearful, and Thayer's lexicon defines it as "christians who through cowardice give way through persecutions and apostatize".

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexico...1169&t=NASB

So I don't think it means the same as you are using it here...

Mat 5:39 "But I say 3004 to you, do not resist 436 an evil 4190 person; but whoever 3748 slaps 4474 you on your right 1188 cheek 4600, turn 4762 the other 243 to him also 2532.

A Child of Almighty Jesus Christ...has no desire for violence, hate, sin, war, or anything else associated with the dark side of man. A Child of Almighty God doesn't have problems being slapped...or persecuted .... because in this dark world the Holy Word says you will be.

When Almighty Jesus blesses you will a wife and child/children he fully expects you to do anything humanely possible to protect them from the enemies of darkness. And men of Jesus should be standing in front of their families and providing a Godly safe environment till death due us part. And the women of Jesus should be right behind them...protecting their families in the battlefield of life.So even though we have no desire to engage physical, emotional, mentally, or spiritualy with the ways of darkess doesn't mean we don't have the ability to destroy them if they become a threat to our loved ones. The problem with this world is most want to hold hands with the enemy even though they are destroying families left and right.

One must understand, Jesus has all authority in Heavens and on earth. Hell was created for Satan and his fallen fools and now for all mankind that decided they loved darkness. Jesus is in charge of Heaven and Hell. That is y he said don't fear anybody who can destroy the body....fear the one who can destroy your body and soul ...Jesus will determine who goes where. That is why Jesus is casting cowards into the lake of fire...you won't find any cowards in eternal life....people that won't battle for Jesus and their loved ones...

Satan in the spiritual world is a peon. In this world he is glorified. The only purpose and reason Almighty Jesus us allows him around is to fulfull his word and too see who is worthy of eternal life. The gift of Eternal life isn't something like a big game of tag your saved because you said the name Jesus. It is a character study. Do you love Jesus and the ways of light. Are striving for life pleasing to Jesus Christ? Would you lay down your life for him and your family. Do you want to separate from darkness...or do you believe darkness will prevail and take your chances with Satan. These are questions every individual needs to ask oneself. Hell isn't a place where you visit and if you don't like it...I want out....it is eternal. The same goes for Heaven...and the new earth. It seems like a no brainer but darkness has a seducing power that men seem to draw to. It is to bad that it is all lies. Satan is the father of lies.

[Press Forward]

I would give my life to protect my family, my friends, or even a stranger. I would sacrifice my own life before taking someone else's. Even though I am a pacifist I do believe a lesser violence is justified to prevent a greater one. But violence, and especially killing, should always be the last resort.

Pacifism should never be confused with passivism (doing nothing in the face of evil). It sometimes takes greater courage to confront evil non-violently than with violence.

Jesus tells me I must love my brothers and sisters in Christ. He tells me I must love my neoghbor as myself. And he tells me I must even love my enemies. That pretty much covers everyone. So in whatever way I act, in whatever situation I find myself in, it always has to come from a place of love. There is no way to engage in physical warfare in a loving way. One has to hate one's enemy to go to war with them.

Let's do some role playing....the situation

A Muslim comes into your house....invited by you ..so you can relate to him about how you are peace loving and you both can serve gods in a worldly love and live in harmony...then he goes crazy and says for the great god allah.....somebody must die....if I understand you correctly...you would sacrifice your own life before taking someone else's.....so he sticks a gun to your head...pulls trigger...and he makes his sacrifice to allah. Then with you out of the picture he shoots one of your children and tells them all they will be shot if they don't worship allah. So now your gone and he slaps a scarf on your wifes head....tells her not to speak...whacks your other kids over the head and tells them they now serve allah...and they torture your children if they even say the name Jesus...

So with pacifism behavior..and mentality...with your courage to let your enemy destroy you...you allowed your family to be put into a life of bondage and misery .... and you expect Jesus to reward you with good job done my faithful child....

In your love for the enemy you still need to be on guard. As protector of your family first of all be careful who you bring into your Sanctuary (home) second if your family is still alive you better use every bit of strength and fight you have to eliminate the enemy if he is threatening you

For a season I had many visions of people being beheaded. Maybe it was the past or maybe it is the future...maybe it is happening now. But as long as I got a breath of air in my lungs....their is no way I'm allowing the enemy to volunteering take me out of the picture to destroy my family. And when I lay in front of Jesus I better have every bone, muscle, body part broken or damaged from doing everything humanly possible to protect my loved ones. I don't want him to ask me....is that all you got. Love is sacrificing even when your cup is full. Before your so quick to volunteer your life...make sure your loved ones are protected. The enemy would love to have you out of the picture.

I don't own a gun...I have a few knifes...and I stop for squirrels in the road...because I don't want to kill anything....I thank Jesus everyday for super walmart...so I don't have to hunt...the only thing I like to shoot is a camera to take pictures of wild life...but I'm sure not a pacifist. Because if somebody tried to harm my family...a rage of protection would take over....and no guilt or shame would be associated with it...because that is my responsibilty to Jesus and my loved ones...

I don't think you need to hate ones enemy to go to war with.....there is a difference between protecting and hate...I guess that is where we differ...

[Maranathanna]

We also need to remember that when God gave the commandments to Moses;

when He wrote in Exodus 20:13:

"Thou shall not murder" as it should be properly tranlated by the Hebrew word "ratsach" which means:

to murder, slay

premeditated

accidental

as avenger

slayer

To murder is not the same as warfare, protection type killing.

Abortions are premeditated, simply put, they are against the Word of God.

Also, Father God knows every single child conceived even from before the time of conception. He knows of his future suffering but He also knows of the Grace that is sufficient that He will bestow on that suffering child, born unwanted or unloved, as He knew of Saul/Paul and Jeremiah :

Jeremiah 1:5

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

[PhoenixJLD]

A Godly love always protects...so how can a Child of Jesus Christ be a pacifist? pacifist=coward=eternal damnation Jesus was quite clear there will no cowards in Heaven.

You got to be kidding me, right?

Well, there goes the the whole early church straight into hell.

Huh? Huh? Press Forward that has to be one of the most provocative statements I have ever heard on these boards! A child of Jesus can be pretty much anything if the child is walking His walk, and please tell me where did Jesus EVER say that a pacifist was going to hell, or for that matter a coward?

Huh?

Revelation 21:8 NIV

[nebula]

Maybe. But hatred of the enemy is often a big part of war.

But not always.

I've heard of stories from the Civil War where Union and Confederate soldiers would mingle together between their lines at night - trading or playing cards or something like that.