WN: Lutherans to Vote on Sexually Active Gay Clergy - Washington Post

[~candice~]

Oh Good Lord. Obviously you're not following me. I never said anything about putting one's conscience above Scripture. That would be what you are doing.

Excuse me? I am not putting my conscience above scripture at all.

Lev 18:22 (NASB)

'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Scripture says - abomination! You say - nah it's cool.

[Guest shiloh357]

I really don't know how this turned into a me v's every one else thread. I agree with most of you! I was never advocating gays in ministry, only for recovered gays in ministry. I am not being emotional or PC. I thought you guys knew me better than this!

Being set free is different the still having the desires but not fulfilling them, living asexually. That is what I am disagreeing with you on. The first is from God, the second from man. God never fails, but man does.

What if God chooses not to set them free?

I am going to be very open here. I've been a Christian pretty much my whole life, and always believed homosexuality is wrong. When I discovered that was my orientation... and it wasn't something I wanted or chose... I prayed daily begging God to free me from it. He chose not to, at least not so far. Does that mean that I haven't been relying on Him, or that I've been trying to "fix" it on my own? At least to me, that answer is a very clear no. What if there is a purpose in it all? If someday He does allow me to fall in love with someone of the opposite sex, then I'll be so grateful... but one thing that has been clear in my mind through all of it is that this "orientation" is only a temptation. I feel attraction to people of the same sex, but as long as I rely on God to help me not to entertain those thoughts and allow them to become lust, I am in His will. I am prepared to live a completely asexual life if that is what is required of me. And my situation isn't unique. Do you think someone like me should be kept from serving God in the ministry if that is what He calls us to?

There is no case where God would not set anyone free from sin. He promises to do so. So the problem is with you, not God.

[PhoenixJLD]

There is no case where God would not set anyone free from sin. He promises to do so. So the problem is with you, not God.

I figured someone would say that. If there is a problem with me that prevents God from answering my prayers in that one particular area, I would very much like to know what it is...

[~candice~]

Sorry, Andy, I was not even paying attention to who I was talking to. I thought you were someone else. I know you're not doing that.

I'm not sure why you are disagreeing with me. I am saying if you feel homosexuality is wrong then don't do it!

You see, this is an appeal to conscience and not the Word. Homosexuality is wrong full stop, because that's what the bible says. It is not wrong merely because it feels wrong on the conscience.

Lev 18:22 (NASB)

'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Scripture says - abomination! You say - nah it's cool.

You know I agree with that scripture and you know why.

I don't buy into the temple prostitution explanation... Can Paul makes things any clearer?

Ro 1 (NASB)

26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

I spent years trying to find a way to make the bible say it is OK. It isn't OK. My conviction from God matches the Word, and thankfully now matches my conscience. It is wrong, a sin, abominable.

Paul appeals to a 'natural function'. His argument was one of design too...

[Guest shiloh357]

Do you deny he was used mightily by God?

Yes, I deny it completely.

Be careful brother. You are straying dangerously close to the unpardonable sin.

No I am not. You, on the other hand, are launching an assault on God's character to claim that a practicing homosexual was used as a minister by God. It also shows that you don't know God very well.

The one in danger is you. You dont even know what the unpardonable sin is, as is evidenced in your post.

[Guest shiloh357]

There is no case where God would not set anyone free from sin. He promises to do so. So the problem is with you, not God.

I figured someone would say that. If there is a problem with me that prevents God from answering my prayers in that one particular area, I would very much like to know what it is...

Maybe you dont really want deliverance. It could other things as well, or a combination of issues. But God is faithful to His Word, so there is no problem on his end.

Whatever the issue is, God is not to blame, you are.

[~candice~]

There is no case where God would not set anyone free from sin. He promises to do so. So the problem is with you, not God.

I figured someone would say that. If there is a problem with me that prevents God from answering my prayers in that one particular area, I would very much like to know what it is...

Maybe you dont really want deliverance. It could other things as well, or a combination of issues. But God is faithful to His Word, so there is no problem on his end.

Whatever the issue is, God is not to blame, you are.

Perhaps you don't realise how distressing it is to hear someone say this, after years of begging and pleading for the removal of these desires. Sanctification does not come instantly. Can man lead a perfect life?

Can you provide scripture?

[OneLight]

There is no case where God would not set anyone free from sin. He promises to do so. So the problem is with you, not God.

I figured someone would say that. If there is a problem with me that prevents God from answering my prayers in that one particular area, I would very much like to know what it is...

Sometimes it takes more then just prayer to break a yoke of bondage. Consider the following ...

Isaiah 58:6-9 (New King James Version)

Is this not the fast that I have chosen:

To loose the bonds of wickedness,

To undo the heavy burdens,

To let the oppressed go free,

And that you break every yoke?

Is it not to share your bread with the hungry,

And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out;

When you see the naked, that you cover him,

And not hide yourself from your own flesh?

Then your light shall break forth like the morning,

Your healing shall spring forth speedily,

And your righteousness shall go before you;

The glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard.

Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer;

You shall cry, and He will say,

[Guest HIS girl]

There is no case where God would not set anyone free from sin. He promises to do so. So the problem is with you, not God.

I figured someone would say that. If there is a problem with me that prevents God from answering my prayers in that one particular area, I would very much like to know what it is...

Maybe you dont really want deliverance. It could other things as well, or a combination of issues. But God is faithful to His Word, so there is no problem on his end.

Whatever the issue is, God is not to blame, you are.

I was going to post very similar words to Shiloh.

You have to call it what it is - that is loving your brother/sister in Christ.

Why would God allow you to continue in what He calls sin?

I was once living in sin AS A CHRISTIAN - and the Lord pulled me up on it - I obeyed.

You may not be a practising gay person but if you are still going through the motions in your mind, it means you still have the desires for it.

You have to release these desires to the Lord.

Don't get offended when folks are trying to point out the truth.

I had it pointed out to me from God - be obedient and release the hold.

[Guest HIS girl]

God does not contradict His word - WE do.