Do you still go to heaven if you commit suicide?

[BigBert]

thanks, smalcald. I'll comment maybe in a bit.

OneLight--true, though I've read a lot in recent days about that scripture and many have a different take on that. However, one thing's for sure, regardless of where someone is in life---it's very dangerous to deny Christ!

Yeah, that is the problem. People take scripture and "reason" it out to mean anything but what it is meant to be. Why can't people just read the word and take it at face value anymore?

Ok. But sometimes the problem is doing that very thing--taking it at "face" value, because we all bring certain preconceived ideas into what we read. If the Church has taught something all the years someone has grown up, he/she is going to perceive a verse a certain way even if it may actually not be the truth.

I'm not saying that's always the case, but if we look at specifically who was being talked to, the surrounding scriptures and other passages from the same individual, it can change the meaning in some cases. And it would not necessarily have anything to do with trying to make excuses or rationalize away something.

[OneLight]

thanks, smalcald. I'll comment maybe in a bit.

OneLight--true, though I've read a lot in recent days about that scripture and many have a different take on that. However, one thing's for sure, regardless of where someone is in life---it's very dangerous to deny Christ!

Yeah, that is the problem. People take scripture and "reason" it out to mean anything but what it is meant to be. Why can't people just read the word and take it at face value anymore?

Ok. But sometimes the problem is doing that very thing--taking it at "face" value, because we all bring certain preconceived ideas into what we read. If the Church has taught something all the years someone has grown up, he/she is going to perceive a verse a certain way even if it may actually not be the truth.

I'm not saying that's always the case, but if we look at specifically who was being talked to, the surrounding scriptures and other passages from the same individual, it can change the meaning in some cases. And it would not necessarily have anything to do with trying to make excuses or rationalize away something.

You were referring to the scripture I posted from Hebrews 6. What have you been taught about this scripture that is different then what it says? Nothing before or after changes the meaning of the scripture.

[BigBert]

thanks, smalcald. I'll comment maybe in a bit.

OneLight--true, though I've read a lot in recent days about that scripture and many have a different take on that. However, one thing's for sure, regardless of where someone is in life---it's very dangerous to deny Christ!

Yeah, that is the problem. People take scripture and "reason" it out to mean anything but what it is meant to be. Why can't people just read the word and take it at face value anymore?

Ok. But sometimes the problem is doing that very thing--taking it at "face" value, because we all bring certain preconceived ideas into what we read. If the Church has taught something all the years someone has grown up, he/she is going to perceive a verse a certain way even if it may actually not be the truth.

I'm not saying that's always the case, but if we look at specifically who was being talked to, the surrounding scriptures and other passages from the same individual, it can change the meaning in some cases. And it would not necessarily have anything to do with trying to make excuses or rationalize away something.

You were referring to the scripture I posted from Hebrews 6. What have you been taught about this scripture that is different then what it says? Nothing before or after changes the meaning of the scripture.

I answered in a general way because that was the way I perceived your prior comment. I'll get back to you in a bit on the other.

[nebula]

Consider again -

If someone is asking this question because they had a loved on who committed suicide, would you tell them, "No," and leave the person to bleed over the loss?

Same as if someone asks because they want to kill themselves, would you say, "Yes," and risk them taking this as a green light to kill themselves.

When dealing with suicide, we are dealing with hurting people, and sometimes we need to lay aside the theology and minister to the broken heart.

Don't you think?

[BigBert]

you have a point, nebula. And I hope not to have gotten too far off the path considering the immediate need.

As to specifics, I noted at least three separate viewpoints on the Hebrews chapter. But, yes, the main thing is to do all we can to comfort and ensure the individual considering suicide is loved. Through us, Jesus' love can show and provide some encouragement to the emotionally wounded.

[EricH]

Consider again -

If someone is asking this question because they had a loved on who committed suicide, would you tell them, "No," and leave the person to bleed over the loss?

Same as if someone asks because they want to kill themselves, would you say, "Yes," and risk them taking this as a green light to kill themselves.

When dealing with suicide, we are dealing with hurting people, and sometimes we need to lay aside the theology and minister to the broken heart.

Don't you think?

That is a great insight, Neb. We need to make sure we are answering the right question. It is never wise to state something the Bible does not state in hopes that the threat will keep people from doing something. On the other hand, we don't want to add to a person's sorrow who is struggling. The safest answer is that since the Bible does not treat suicide as a special case, we don't.

[Guest Butero]

Consider again -

If someone is asking this question because they had a loved on who committed suicide, would you tell them, "No," and leave the person to bleed over the loss?

Same as if someone asks because they want to kill themselves, would you say, "Yes," and risk them taking this as a green light to kill themselves.

When dealing with suicide, we are dealing with hurting people, and sometimes we need to lay aside the theology and minister to the broken heart.

Don't you think?

That is a great insight, Neb. We need to make sure we are answering the right question. It is never wise to state something the Bible does not state in hopes that the threat will keep people from doing something. On the other hand, we don't want to add to a person's sorrow who is struggling. The safest answer is that since the Bible does not treat suicide as a special case, we don't.

I don't agree with this comment, because of the way it is worded. First of all, nobody is stating something the Bible doesn't in hopes the threat will keep people from doing something. Those of us who do not believe in unconditional eternal security believe the Bible teaches that an unconfessed wilful sin will cause someone to lose their salvation. It is a matter of interpretation. I wouldn't tell something I don't believe is true to scare them, and I don't believe anyone else was doing that either.

I do agree that the Bible doesn't treat suicide as a special case in the sense that it is not a greater sin than say adultery, but the difference is that someone who commits suicide has no chance to repent. I don't feel the need to tell someone that I believe that their loved ones who committed suicide are in heaven if they had been saved. I don't believe that, and just as you say it is wrong to lie to scare someone, I believe it is wrong to lie to console someone. The bottom line here is that if you follow Baptist theology, you will probably believe they went to heaven, and if you do not, you either believe they went to hell or you don't know.

[Guest Butero]

Consider again -

If someone is asking this question because they had a loved on who committed suicide, would you tell them, "No," and leave the person to bleed over the loss?

Same as if someone asks because they want to kill themselves, would you say, "Yes," and risk them taking this as a green light to kill themselves.

When dealing with suicide, we are dealing with hurting people, and sometimes we need to lay aside the theology and minister to the broken heart.

Don't you think?

While I sympathise with what you are saying, I don't believe we can do that. If someone lost a loved one to suicide, and I believe based on my interpretation of scripture that they went to hell, or probably went to hell, and I tell them that they went to heaven to make them feel better, they may get into a state of depression and decide they want to join their loved one in heaven. No good can come from such a lie. The best thing I can do is be honest with them and tell them that I do not believe that someone who commits suicide will go to heaven, but at the same time, since all judgment is left up the Christ, not me, there is that chance I could be wrong. In other words, we all have our opinions, but nobody knows for sure but God.

[OneLight]

Consider again -

If someone is asking this question because they had a loved on who committed suicide, would you tell them, "No," and leave the person to bleed over the loss?

Same as if someone asks because they want to kill themselves, would you say, "Yes," and risk them taking this as a green light to kill themselves.

When dealing with suicide, we are dealing with hurting people, and sometimes we need to lay aside the theology and minister to the broken heart.

Don't you think?

Blessings Sister!

To reply your first statement, the truth is that only God can say who is allowed into Heaven and who is not. There is not one person who can look into the heart of another, or know God's thoughts, and make a statement for certain. Only God knows who is written in the Book of Life.

To reply yo your second statement, when one is hurting so bad that they no longer desire to remain alive, what first needs to be done is to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit in how to help. Then we need to act according to His leading, speaking what He gives us to say, doing what He leads us to do. We should always confirm to them that God will never leave nor forsake them. Everything in this life is temporary, including our miseries.

Never should anyone answer the OP's question telling them that if they commit suicide, they will go to heaven if they believe in Christ. To say that scripture does not give evidence against suicide because they never mention the word is wrong. We are told by Christ Himself that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the kingdom. Is it the Fathers will that someone take their life? It is Gods desire to give life, and to give it more abundantly. I have not read once in scripture where God told someone to take their life, but I have read many times where we are to put Him first.

Matthew 7:13-14 (New King James Version)

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Exodus 20:13 (New King James Version)

You shall not murder.

Matthew 7:21-23 (New King James Version)

Not everyone who says to Me,

[BigBert]

OneLight--I agree that we need to be very, very careful in doing anything to indirectly "encourage" someone to commit suicide. As with a number of critical areas in the Bible, there are obviously various interpretations, and only God knows for certain the result.

I do become concerned when I see so many seemingly condemning scriptures trotted out, which actually can have the opposite effect of what you intend. It can create a feeling of helplessness, that there's no way to live up to what God seems to demand, which can certainly push someone suicidal to the brink as well. So there's a balance.

There are many other scriptures that, in fact, tell of boundless, non-judgmental pure love from God. If we believe He's apt to strike us down in some fashion (especially eternally) for failing to meet standards only Jesus has and ever will manage to meet, then that's a danger in itself, I believe.

Let's also preach John, Chapter 3:

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

(shortly after in the same chapter): 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

The word "obey" here means believe in the Greek. In fact, the obeying in Jesus' comments elsewhere as well often refers to "believe" (in Him as the sole source of our salvation).

Moving not long at all after, to Chapter 5, we read this reassurance:

22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

The "honor" being required in v 23 is clarified if there is any doubt by the requirement laid out in v 24 that we "believe."

There are many more such passages in the Bible, and I think the works are merely a result of that faith, and they come in different paces according to each believer.

Far more important than anything, I believe, is that we remember and be encouraged by God's unconditional love, which exceeds His judgment, as He alone figured a way to encapsulate the latter inside the former by placing all the punishment on Jesus. Even His judgment became the ultimate expression of His love.

As we're reminded in 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment.

Maybe it's that very thing--God's perfect love--that will actually encourage the deeply despondent onto renewed energy and hope even on this earth. He knows better than anyone how to uplift the inner being of man (woman).

On that note, may I recommend a book I'm currently reading (per google books) and aim to buy very soon called "Experiencing Father's Embrace." It's something I'm way overdue to read myself.

http://books.google.com/books?id=FV8vWWvmf...p;q=&f=true

Edited September 4, 2009 by BigBert