The Westminister confession of faith

[Jeremiah Joel]

To all

I hope that the last post that I made was clear.

The talk of free from sin is not about us, or our own power. We will always fail trying under our own power to be free from sin (law of thou shalt not). We simply speak here about the work of Christ and what Christ came to do. It is the work of the Holy Ghost that takes sin away.

Again: it is not only about a man 2,000 or so years ago, called the Christ. It is now Christ also in you the hope of glory. The man Christ Jesus had a body just like we do...... yet without sin. It was not by his flesh that he was without sin. It was the work of the God.

Jeremiah

[BigBert]

Jeremiah, I appreciate your post and you have some good thoughts that deserve further reflection.

I do find it interesting, for lack of better word, that Bill Bright, in his book The Holy Spirit, mentioned the case of a Christian acquaintance who believed he had reached the point where he literally was without sin anymore in his life. He soon suffered some severe pains, leading Pastor Bright to tell him to repent of that belief quickly (that the physical attack was a satanic one that God allowed). The man did as told, humbled himself to God, and the pain subsided.

It's certainly possible the pain was coincidental, but I read a passage in the Bible just yesterday (would have to look it up, as I don't recall the verse now) that seemed to indicate we are not capable of leading a sinless life, even though we can sure come a lot closer than we ever even imagined so without the Spirit.

Christ was indeed without sin, though He was not born into it either, so the dual nature was not in Him. (though I see the other side, too, in that He was still tempted, meaning He obviously had the choice. )

As to not criticizing others' sins because we ourselves are not perfect, Christ of course told us to take the log out of our own eye first. Even so, I imagine there's a distinction in that anyone preaching in something remotely approaching self-absorption (rather than pure love toward others) had better be sure to have his life in order compared to those he's preaching at. On the other hand, those who, out of love, ask a brother or sister to consider what they're doing because they love and care about them are not necessarily under the same kind of spotlight. It's akin to a loving parent or sibling warning out of love to the child or other sibling about something that could harm them. It's understood the caring advice comes from someone with flaws of their own.

Edited September 4, 2009 by BigBert

[JCISGD]

So Jerimiah the command to BE holy by Jesus, was asking us to be something impossible to us. Are you saying then that we are positionally holy by the work of Christ on the cross, but actually still in our sins ?

BB + Eric, We are not commanded to be AS holy as God is, that is as Bert points out infinatley so, perfect in all His perfections.

We are commanded to BY HIS POWER (grace) live with a clear conscience just as God has a clear conscience void of any sin. If we do anything doubtful then that is sin and we are to stop it unless and untill our conscience is clear about it.

We are to repent, confess and make restitution of all known wrongs we have committed, and let God search our hearts for any hidden sins. "He who covers his sins shall not prosper"

All this is in no way impossible in the light that God holds out His offer of grace to us to help us, but we must do it or be indirect violation of His command to be holy.

Now the W.C states that no matter how much grace God offers we cannot be holy, i would ask who is right them or Jesus who by implication says we can. "Be holy as (because) your father is holy".

The command implies possibility and in this case all probability, and to say it doesnt means Jesus was not sincere in commanding such.

[JCISGD]

Jeremiah, I appreciate your post and you have some good thoughts that deserve further reflection.

I do find it interesting, for lack of better word, that Bill Bright, in his book The Holy Spirit, mentioned the case of a Christian acquaintance who believed he had reached the point where he literally was without sin anymore in his life. He soon suffered some severe pains, leading Pastor Bright to tell him to repent of that belief quickly (that the physical attack was a satanic one that God allowed). The man did as told, humbled himself to God, and the pain subsided.

It's certainly possible the pain was coincidental, but I read a passage in the Bible just yesterday (would have to look it up, as I don't recall the verse now) that seemed to indicate we are not capable of leading a sinless life, even though we can sure come a lot closer than we ever even imagined so without the Spirit.

Christ was indeed without sin, though He was not born into it either, so the dual nature was not in Him. (though I see the other side, too, in that He was still tempted, meaning He obviously had the choice. )

As to not criticizing others' sins because we ourselves are not perfect, Christ of course told us to take the log out of our own eye first. Even so, I imagine there's a distinction in that anyone preaching in something remotely approaching self-absorption (rather than pure love toward others) had better be sure to have his life in order compared to those he's preaching at. On the other hand, those who, out of love, ask a brother or sister to consider what they're doing because they love and care about them are not necessarily under the same kind of spotlight. It's akin to a loving parent or sibling warning out of love to the child or other sibling about something that could harm them. It's understood the caring advice comes from someone with flaws of their own

BB we are ill advised to go on impressions or beliefs not sustained by scripture, and those that do fall into much error. God speaks to man via his conscience/heart through the revealed Word of God. Satan would gladly remove his attack if it led to error. IMO we are not use Job as God using sickness to steer us , although long term violations of health practices will lead to sickness which God may then use to get our attention.

We dont have a dual nature we are just unwilling to do what God asks. Jesus was born into the same type of body as is proof to us that God can indeed and thought be obeyed by His grace. Contrary to Satans lie we do not have a body that causes us to sin, and Jesus`s command to cut off any part that did would make alot of men eunichsBB we are ill advised to go on impressions or beliefs not sustained by scripture, and those that do fall into much error. God speaks to man via his conscience/heart through the revealed Word of God. Satan would gladly remove his attack if it led to error. IMO we are not use Job as God using sickness to steer us , although long term violations of health practices will lead to sickness which God may then use to get our attention.

[Jeremiah Joel]

Hello to all

I hope that all my post were clear. I do not intend to say that I am anything of myself. Being free from sin is of course the work of God. As I have said before.

Being free from sin does not mean that we are not tempted. Christ (as BB stated) was tempted in all points like we are. Though Christ was tempted in all point like we are, he was never in sin. We on the other hand were born in sin.... BUT we have been born again, to walk in newness of life. I know that we have this flesh wherein dwells no good thing (Christ did also). Temptations come and go, things happen in life which we all battle through. God through Christ gives us the victory.

We understand that we all have things that are particular to us as individuals.... sin that is particular to us that we fight against based on how things are with our flesh. We do not fight against those things with carnal weapons, but spiritual weapons.

It speaks in I Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin (Rm 7:1-23), we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. This is the flesh that we fight against daily. This does not mean though that we can not be free from sin. That is not why John wrote these things. We can find this out by reading the next verse in I Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. ( Rm 7:24-25 & Rm 8:1-4) And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: Ja 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

So then, this is not about anyone being better than anyone else. This is a message about what Christ came to do. To bring forth to people how to believe in Christ, that sin is taken out of the way. It is truely about walking in newness of life. You do not have to live with sin any longer. You do not have to believe the lie that you are no good, that you can never be free from your sin. I preach to you that you through Christ can be free. "You shalll know the truth, and the truth shall make you free".

Peace in the truth of the gospel of Christ.

Jeremiah