Sanctity of Marriage

[JCISGD]

Hi JIME, if youve seen my previous posts on this topic in the M/D poll etc you will see i agree and am 95% convinced with the death only exception for remarriage. I am a divorced person who was married preChrist to a divorced woman. I spent 4 agonising years trying to know the truth of my duty and course of action, before divorcing. I was at the time seperated unreconcilably from her and our two young children. Only after 20 yrs did i come accross the proofs you are posting and now i think i was right to divorce, even though at the time i had only complied with my wifes wishes and i had did not have peace about it.

I do have a couple of niggling concerns that you or others might be able to help clear up. I am not seeking to bind anyone up or liberalise the scriptures, i only wish to uphold the truth.

1.) Jesus said "whoever divorces his wife causes her to commit adultery" Is Jesus then expecting/allowing her to remmarry? how is that she is commits adultery unless she remmarries and why is it that Jesus assumes/predicts? she will remarry?, or is she considered as being in adultery merely because her husband has divorced her?

2.) Paul says not to divorce the unbelieving spouse if they are willing to stay but the believer is not under bondage (duty) if the unbeliever wants to depart from the marriage. 1 Cor 7:12 + 13 +15. Is Paul condoning divorce of an unbeliever? if so how is this not adultery?

The answer to your first question: I think Jesus knew that the desire of a woman is to be married. Thus, He said if she being divorced remarries she commits adultery because she is still bound to her first husband by God. God only recognizes the first marriage.

The answer to your second question: Paul was telling them to stay with the unbeliever to be a witness, but not to leave the unbeliever or divorce them. If they(the unbeliever) leave, then let them go. They are still married in the sight of God. Basically they are separated. They cannot remarry.

1.) but how is she caused to commit adultery? can she not remain single? Adultery unrepented of (that is broken off from) is listed as barring one from heaven, so it is avery serious thing to be caused to commit unless there is a concession?

I am not arguing for a concession, i just dont have clarity on why Jesus said this.

2.) Paul says not to divorce if the unbelieving spouse chooses to stay, but does this not imply a concession to divorce if the unbeliever departs?. Again i stress i am of the opinion that scripture forbids remmarriage except if the spouse dies, but what about the implication of what Paul has said in 1 Cor 7:12 + !3 ?

[JIME]

1.) but how is she caused to commit adultery? can she not remain single? Adultery unrepented of (that is broken off from) is listed as barring one from heaven, so it is avery serious thing to be caused to commit unless there is a concession?

I am not arguing for a concession, i just dont have clarity on why Jesus said this.

2.) Paul says not to divorce if the unbelieving spouse chooses to stay, but does this not imply a concession to divorce if the unbeliever departs?. Again i stress i am of the opinion that scripture forbids remmarriage except if the spouse dies, but what about the implication of what Paul has said in 1 Cor 7:12 + !3 ?

My answer to question #1.

Matt 5:32 (AMP)--But I tell you, Whoever dismisses and repudiates and divorces his wife, except on the grounds of unfaithfulness (sexual immorality), causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a woman who has been divorced commits adultery.

Matt 19:9 (AMP)--I say to you: whoever dismisses (repudiates, divorces) his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Mark 10:11-12 (AMP)--And He said to them, Whoever dismisses (repudiates and divorces) his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; And if a woman dismisses (repudiates and divorces) her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.

If you read all the scriptures that Jesus spoke about divorce, you will see He is saying that if the woman remarries she commits adultery. The scripture from Mark explicitly answers your question. It does not leave any doubt.

My answer on question 2.

1 Cor 7:12-13 (AMP)--12 To the rest I declare

[JCISGD]

1.) but how is she caused to commit adultery? can she not remain single? Adultery unrepented of (that is broken off from) is listed as barring one from heaven, so it is avery serious thing to be caused to commit unless there is a concession?

I am not arguing for a concession, i just dont have clarity on why Jesus said this.

2.) Paul says not to divorce if the unbelieving spouse chooses to stay, but does this not imply a concession to divorce if the unbeliever departs?. Again i stress i am of the opinion that scripture forbids remmarriage except if the spouse dies, but what about the implication of what Paul has said in 1 Cor 7:12 + !3 ?

My answer to question #1.

Matt 5:32 (AMP)--But I tell you, Whoever dismisses and repudiates and divorces his wife, except on the grounds of unfaithfulness (sexual immorality), causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a woman who has been divorced commits adultery.

Matt 19:9 (AMP)--I say to you: whoever dismisses (repudiates, divorces) his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Mark 10:11-12 (AMP)--And He said to them, Whoever dismisses (repudiates and divorces) his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; And if a woman dismisses (repudiates and divorces) her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.

If you read all the scriptures that Jesus spoke about divorce, you will see He is saying that if the woman remarries she commits adultery. The scripture from Mark explicitly answers your question. It does not leave any doubt.

My answer on question 2.

1 Cor 7:12-13 (AMP)--12 To the rest I declare

[leoxiii]

This from Tertullian, in about Ad 500 in a letter to his wife. Tertullian - Letter to His wife - Book 1. he knew a thing or two.

Together they pray, together prostrate themselves, together perform their fasts; mutually teaching, mutually exhorting, mutually sustaining. Equally (are they) both (found) in the Church of God; equally at the banquet of God; equally in straits, in persecutions, in refreshments. Neither hides (ought) from the other; neither shuns the other; neither is troublesome to the other. The sick is visited, the indigent relieved, with freedom. Alms (are given) without (danger of ensuing) torment; sacrifices (attended) without scruple; daily diligence (discharged) without impediment: (there is) no stealthy signing, no trembling greeting, no mute benediction. Between the two echo psalms and hymns; and they mutually challenge each other which shall better chant to their Lord. Such things when Christ sees and hears, He joys. To these He sends His own I peace. Where two (are), there withal He Himself. Where He, there the Evil One is not.

These are the things which that utterance of the apostle has, beneath its brevity, left to be understood by us. These things, if need shall be, suggest to your own mind. By these turn yourself away from the examples of some. To marry otherwise is, to believers, not "lawful;" is not "expedient."

Tertullian was 3rd century.

Jesus said that whoever divorces and re-marries commits adultery, and whoever marries someone so divorced also commits adultery.

[leoxiii]

"marital unfaithfulness" does not mean "sexual immorality". It means a defect in the actual marriage itself, that is, there was an impediment to the marriage being valid, i.e., one of the persons was already married, or they were too close of relatives to be married, or they entered into the covenant with no intention of remaining in it and observing it.

[JIME]

Thanks Jime, i agree with what you say and see now Paul was ruling out all divorce for believers, the only option being seperation.

I stil cant see how the women in Mat 5:32 is caused to commit adultery as if her husband divorces her, she can remain single and indeed must or be in danger of hell? Surely she is not caused unless she makes a choice to remmarry? is this just a poor translation of the greek word ?

What do you do in the case of having a meal with a "believer" who has remmarried but does not believe they are in adultery? as Paul said we are not eat with a brother who is immoral?

JCISGD,

Remember that the 4 gospels are the accounts of Jesus, told by 4 different people. So, each gospel reflects the writers view of what went on. They are like 4 different cameras pointed at the same subject from 4 different angles. In Matthew, he is giving his account of what Jesus said from his view, and Mark is giving an account of what Jesus said from his view. Mark is actually expounding on Matthew's view. He has in a sense, summed it all up in Mark 10:11-12 (AMP)--And He said to them, Whoever dismisses (repudiates and divorces) his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; And if a woman dismisses (repudiates and divorces) her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.

As to your second question, according to Paul we are not to associate with that person. In fact, we are to drive them out from among us. 1 Cor 5:11-13 (AMP)-- But now I write to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of [Christian] brother if he is known to be guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater [whose soul is devoted to any object that usurps the place of God], or is a person with a foul tongue [railing, abusing, reviling, slandering], or is a drunkard or a swindler or a robber. [No] you must not so much as eat with such a person. What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]? God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].

Here is that same scripture from the NASB 1 Cor 5:11-13 (NASB)--But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

You'll notice that in the NASB it says "SO-CALLED BROTHER" which means that person truly isn't saved.

Remember the Fruits of the Flesh: Gal 5:19-21 (AMP)--Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies), envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And the Fruits of the Spirit: Gal 5:22-23 (AMP)--But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness, Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [that can bring a charge].

I hope I have helped you understand.

Jime

Edited October 2, 2009 by JIME

[Smalcald]

So, and I ask this seriously, in your opinion from scripture; if one simply cannot live with their husband or wife the Christian should separate and not re-marry?

[JCISGD]

So, and I ask this seriously, in your opinion from scripture; if one simply cannot live with their husband or wife the Christian should separate and not re-marry?

Thats what 1 Cor 7:10+11 says, "Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband". But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife".

Interesting that Paul addresses the wife only in reguard to seperating. IMO this is because the wife must submit to the mans authority whole heartedly or seperate if she is unwilling, but arguing or railing against him is apparantly not a biblical concept. But to the man Paul simply says no divorce.

[humbleseeker]

I must agree with scripture but the interpretation of scripture on this topic has always went many different ways. If divorce happens and both parties re marry then they both commited adultry that justifies seperation according to Jesus. Adultry being the only grounds of divorce. If a man or woman divroces, and are forced to stay un married that could put a stumbling block in there way. Sex being a good thing is desired by men and woman not allowing a divorced person to re marry will only lead to fornication. This is a very legalistic topic, mostly those who have had a good marriage agree with no remarriyng, and those who are divorced like myself agree that you can remarry. I ll let God judge me, right or wrong my mind is clear and will be at peace when I marry again. My wife left me for another man I will not stay unmarried for what she did to me.

[JCISGD]

I must agree with scripture but the interpretation of scripture on this topic has always went many different ways. If divorce happens and both parties re marry then they both commited adultry that justifies seperation according to Jesus. Adultry being the only grounds of divorce. If a man or woman divroces, and are forced to stay un married that could put a stumbling block in there way. Sex being a good thing is desired by men and woman not allowing a divorced person to re marry will only lead to fornication. This is a very legalistic topic, mostly those who have had a good marriage agree with no remarriyng, and those who are divorced like myself agree that you can remarry. I ll let God judge me, right or wrong my mind is clear and will be at peace when I marry again. My wife left me for another man I will not stay unmarried for what she did to me.

What if God wants to reconcile you and bring glory to His name. Also do you not know that God will not leave you spouseless and will give you extra grace untill your wife returns or He takes her life, (yes God kills people i.e Annias and Saphira) leaving you free to marry without commiting adultery.