can salvation be lost?

[Smalcald]

I agree.

I mean it makes no sense to say a non-believer has eternal security. We are not saying those without faith have eternal security, that would be universalism.

[Guest shiloh357]

I thought the point of eternal security was that it WAS unconditional?

If it is conditional if sin could stop it, how is it eternal security?

The word "unconditional" is added by Eternal Security critics because they misunderstand Eternal Security to mean that one can sin as much as they want but cannot lose salvation since they are saved "unconditionally." It is yet another perversion of what the doctrine teaches.

Eternal Security is predicated on a particular view of salvation that precludes a true Christian from wanting to live in habitual sin in the first place. So the notion that a person can get saved and sin as much as they want is really a nonissue, as a true Christian is not looking for a way to sin.

[kross]

I thought the point of eternal security was that it WAS unconditional?

If it is conditional if sin could stop it, how is it eternal security?

Philosophically the power of sin would have to be greater than the power of God's very life (Which is the essence of our eternal salvation), wouldn't it?

Exactly so the entire point of eternal security is that it IS unconditional, it is not worth very much if it is not.

now that is a fact!

Sorry, but you're wrong. What is conditional is whether you are really, sincerely, heart, mind and soul saved. If you are thus saved, you will not, as you all seem to insist, continue to live in sin without regard to the Cross. If you are not reborn, a new person, then there is no salvation, eternal or otherwise. Come on you guys, open your eyes and minds and see - yea understand - what we have been saying over and over and over about this. One more time - salvation is unconditional once one is really saved.

You seem to not be listening and are arguing a different point. Those who believe in eternal security believe that a person indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT will not live a life of debatchery. They will, by the new nature and life given to them in the living spirit of GOD in them, walk in accordance with that spirit. Those who do not walk in accord with that spirit are likely not saved.

I will hold to my belief that the power to save is greater than the power of sin. I will alson state, though it takes a greater disscussion than what will take place here, that there will be people who will die in an alley with a needle in their arm who will be in paradise with those of us who walk well in this life. They will be there by the only hope they have, trust in GOD through JESUS CHRIST.

I know that I know that I know that many will be in Heaven who would not pass our judgements.

[Rick-Parker]

I hope so. I don't want to see anyone lost.

[exrockstar]

You seem to not be listening and are arguing a different point. Those who believe in eternal security believe that a person indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT will not live a life of debatchery. They will, by the new nature and life given to them in the living spirit of GOD in them, walk in accordance with that spirit. Those who do not walk in accord with that spirit are likely not saved.

I will hold to my belief that the power to save is greater than the power of sin. I will alson state, though it takes a greater disscussion than what will take place here, that there will be people who will die in an alley with a needle in their arm who will be in paradise with those of us who walk well in this life. They will be there by the only hope they have, trust in GOD through JESUS CHRIST.

I know that I know that I know that many will be in Heaven who would not pass our judgements.

I can see why some people are on this salvation by demonstration kick.

Judging is fun.

Arrogant but fun.

[Smalcald]

Judging IS fun.

But is sin fun? Do we live our lives in a continual struggle wishing we could sin?

To me part of the path of the Good News is that with our New self we see the world in such a way that we don't want to sin, that we want to be holy, not for just the sake of being holy for show, but because being holy is peace and joy and happiness.

[Guest shiloh357]

You seem to not be listening and are arguing a different point. Those who believe in eternal security believe that a person indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT will not live a life of debatchery. They will, by the new nature and life given to them in the living spirit of GOD in them, walk in accordance with that spirit. Those who do not walk in accord with that spirit are likely not saved.

I will hold to my belief that the power to save is greater than the power of sin. I will alson state, though it takes a greater disscussion than what will take place here, that there will be people who will die in an alley with a needle in their arm who will be in paradise with those of us who walk well in this life. They will be there by the only hope they have, trust in GOD through JESUS CHRIST.

I know that I know that I know that many will be in Heaven who would not pass our judgements.

I can see why some people are on this salvation by demonstration kick.

Judging is fun.

Arrogant but fun.

No one said anything about "salvation by demonstration." In fact, that would be a logical impossibility. If a person is saved, it will show up in their works/lives. They can't help it. We are commanded to demonstrate our salvation in the NT. We are to let our "light so shine..." according to Jesus.

[kross]

Judging IS fun.

But is sin fun? Do we live our lives in a continual struggle wishing we could sin?

To me part of the path of the Good News is that with our New self we see the world in such a way that we don't want to sin, that we want to be holy, not for just the sake of being holy for show, but because being holy is peace and joy and happiness.

[Ashitaria]

http://www.bible.ca/interactive/salvation-interactive.htm

Look at this.

[Smalcald]

Church of Christ?

I read the link and looked at the power point. The interesting thing is that they claim that Jesus would only be at a Church that is not divided, hmmm.