can salvation be lost?

[Smalcald]

Yeah, I have a question, you said Kross is not saved why exactly do you say that?

[Ashitaria]

Yeah, I have a question, you said Kross is not saved why exactly do you say that?

Please read the previous posts. You will see why I have accused him as "not saved".

As I said, read everything.

[kross]

Then you are not saved. As you demand proof, I give you proof: http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/sermons_05.php

In that page, it will show that John did indeed had that power as he was appointed as the representative of mankind (Matthew 11:10-11) and that he did pass all of our sins onto Jesus (Matthew 3:15).

Read the website for the entire explanation. Jesus was sinless, but his flesh was not. When he was crucified, the flesh was destroyed along with sin.

Do you have anything else to say? Any questions to ask? Any point to make?

JESUS was sinless and perfect until the day HE went to the cross. GOD affirmed this by stating that HE was well pleased with HIM. This statement shows CHRIST as a spotless lamb fit for a sacrifice. For you to say he was walkng around with our sin on HIM is just vile.

Our sin was imparted to JESUS by HIS FATHER when HE was nailed to the cross. HE was whipped and beaten and suffered as an inocent man who was never touched by sin.

[kross]

Then you are not saved. As you demand proof, I give you proof: http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/sermons_05.php

In that page, it will show that John did indeed had that power as he was appointed as the representative of mankind (Matthew 11:10-11) and that he did pass all of our sins onto Jesus (Matthew 3:15).

Read the website for the entire explanation. Jesus was sinless, but his flesh was not. When he was crucified, the flesh was destroyed along with sin.

Do you have anything else to say? Any questions to ask? Any point to make?

I will not tell anyone who professes JESUS as LORD that they are unsaved. I will tell you that you are 100% wrong about my salvation and about this doctrin you claim as your own. (although you have a great imagination and can really make a story out of nothing)

Neither of those scriptures states anything you say they do.

YOu claim that the scripture that states John was a messenger of GOD means he was appointed a representative of mankind (two thing that are exact opposites) and that John, after professing he should be baptised by JESUS, then imparted sin into JESUS and, as a result, the HOLY SPIRIT came to JESUS when HE had all the sin of the world on HIS shoulders and then GOD proclaimed HE as well pleasing. This really flies in the face of GOD's holiness and HIS inability to look upon sin (which is why HE turned away when JESUS was crucified and the sins of the world were on HIM)

GOD gave both John and JESUS directions that all who had a good conscience towards HIM should show it by the act of baptism. JESUS, in order to fulfill all righteousness, obeyed as HE has commanded all to obey.

I think, of all the teacher of bad doctrin I have encountered, I pity you most of all of them. For this, while I believe you believe it, is one of those doctrins that would be more likely to come from Satan than scripture.

[Guest biblebuddy]

I believe you can lose your salvation just by walking away ...

Christan's who are living in sin, have fallen away from

the Lord. These precious believers still have a chance to

make things right with Jesus and reunite with the Lord.

It is the Lords will that none perish and all come to know the knowledge of the truth and stay connected to the vine.

how far do you have to walk in order to walk away from your salvation? i mean, how much sin is "too much" sin that causes one to fall away? where is the line of demarcation? and how do you know if you've crossed that line? can we know?

i believe that if you take one step in the wrong direction you have turned your back on god, but I've been taught all my life that God will always welcome back the sinner, for he is great and wrathful yet graceful and merciful. no matter the severity one can recommit to God, but you have not truly achieved salvation until you choose to follow God utterly and never fall to temptation again. You can only achieve salvation by dieing to yourself and giving all control to God. "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life i live in the body i live by faith in the son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galations 2:20 NIV

[kross]

There is much much more to salvation as you think.

How do you know what I think?

I don't think anyone here really disagrees in any big way with what you are saying. Works are going to be present in someone who has salvation, there is no doubt about that. All Christians will be baptized if it is at all possible.

So what are we missing?

What you guys are missing is the knowledge of Jesus baptism.

By now, you guys should know that faith alone is dead. That you have to be careful in what you believe in, and what you believe in must be supported by the bible.

You guys must also know that we cannot obey even one commandment, not any of us.You guys should also know that many the phenomenons (speaking in tongues, prophesying, etc.) that people claim to have experienced are manipulations from the devil, as they do not believe in the right gospel. The devil is deceiving them.

And yet, many of the verses in the bible tell us to be perfect, sinless, to strive to be like Christ, even though we can never be and that such efforts are in vain.

Verses in the bible tell us to be baptized to be saved, causing much confusion, as people are disillusioned by the verses of the bible.

This is what I want you guys to know, after debating so long about salvation.

The baptism of Jesus marks the time when John the Baptist sent all of our sins (past,present and future) to him, meaning that we do not have to pray in repentance to every sin we commit to be saved.

It means that because of this, we are sinless and holy, free from sin, even if we do sin.

What about John 1? you ask.

http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/sermons_09.php

This website here will explain everything about the gospel that I am trying to preach.

www.bjnewlife.org

From here on out, my work here is done. I ask of all of you to go the the website and read the e-books provided there.

I went and read the sermon. All of what he states in the sermon I would agree on except his idea that our salvation came at JESUS' baptism and not the work of the cross. This an odd twist of scripture and I think it has been made for the purpose of someone having something new to say. It is not biblical and it is not accurate and it is absolutely false.

No-where in the bible does it teach that there is no remittance of sin outside of baptism. OT and NT clearly teach us that remittance of sin come by the shedding of blood. Never by the shedding of blood and something else.

This teaching ignors all of the OT and most of the NT in order to be something that sounds new and creates a new teaching to enslave those who do not know into something that is not true. As I have stated before, I pity anyone who chooses to believe this doctrin and I particularly pity those who created it or spread it.

I will be praying for you and i hope others who know the truth will be praying for you also.

[kross]

I believe you can lose your salvation just by walking away ...

Christan's who are living in sin, have fallen away from

the Lord. These precious believers still have a chance to

make things right with Jesus and reunite with the Lord.

It is the Lords will that none perish and all come to know the knowledge of the truth and stay connected to the vine.

how far do you have to walk in order to walk away from your salvation? i mean, how much sin is "too much" sin that causes one to fall away? where is the line of demarcation? and how do you know if you've crossed that line? can we know?

i believe that if you take one step in the wrong direction you have turned your back on god, but I've been taught all my life that God will always welcome back the sinner, for he is great and wrathful yet graceful and merciful. no matter the severity one can recommit to God, but you have not truly achieved salvation until you choose to follow God utterly and never fall to temptation again. You can only achieve salvation by dieing to yourself and giving all control to God. "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life i live in the body i live by faith in the son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galations 2:20 NIV

That is an odd scripture to quote for one who believes in loosing salvation. IF CHRIST lives in me and I no longer live, than how does CHRIST walk away from CHRIST?

[exrockstar]

No, it is an act of obedience to share the gospel. The Holy Spirit is the one who does the calling and the saving.

the holy spirit does the calling?

youre losing me on that one.

To put it a different way, it is the Holy Spirit that convicts and reveals truth. We share the truth, it is the Holy Sprit that works on the hearts of those who hear the gospel. In this way, the Father draws us to Himself.

correct: we are, in a sense, part of the process (the "sharing" of). for a minute I tought you were saying we were not.

[exrockstar]

To show a clear conscience towards GOD. It is a symbolic act of obedience, nothing more.

Sorry, I did not see the part about John the baptist placing our sins on JESUS. I never would have though John had that power. There is nothing in the scriptures to support this statement. Someone added to the scriptures something from their own imagination of why JESUS needed to be baptised.

Since JESUS was sinless until HIS crucifiction, this is a very blasphemous statement.

it originally wasn't to show a clear conscience. it was an IOU when John was doing it.

Nowadays people say "obedience" along with a long list of things.

[Guest shiloh357]

To show a clear conscience towards GOD. It is a symbolic act of obedience, nothing more.

Sorry, I did not see the part about John the baptist placing our sins on JESUS. I never would have though John had that power. There is nothing in the scriptures to support this statement. Someone added to the scriptures something from their own imagination of why JESUS needed to be baptised.

Since JESUS was sinless until HIS crucifiction, this is a very blasphemous statement.

it originally wasn't to show a clear conscience. it was an IOU when John was doing it.

Nowadays people say "obedience" along with a long list of things.

No it was not an "IOU." It was a baptism unto repentance. Today, baptism is an act of obedience that serves as an outward testimony of an inward transformation. We have died to the old man and have been resurrected with Christ.

Jesus identified with man when He was baptised. It was the first step in Christ being "numbered among the transgressors (Is. 53:12). He stood as man's representative before the Father and the Father's representative before man. Baptism for the Chrisitan is an act of identification with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.