can salvation be lost?

[Rhonda Lou]

This is in the Berean Bible study today:

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God" 1John 3:9 and "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

Do you know anybody, even a Christian, who is now perfect? I agree that we do not seek to sin -- we don't chase after sin, but it is my understanding that when the Bible says that nobody born of God will continue to sin, it means that if we commit the same sin over and over without repenting -- or even caring that we sin -- that is continuing to sin. I believe the distinction has to do with motivation -- there is a difference betwwen falling into sin and seeking it out.

What the author is talking about is just what you say, that if one continues to willfully sin after "accepting" Jesus, that their "conversion" is false and they were never saved. It does not say that the saved will not sin. The saved will repent and have a changed heart, not committing the same sins on purpose (willfully). There is no license to sin with salvation. For eternal security, there are conditions, which are to obey the leading of the Holy Spirit. He convicts when we sin and leads us to repentance, He brings potentially sinful situations to the forefront so we can avoid them or realize that we have sinned and repent while striving to not sin in the same fashion again. If you do this, God guarantees your salvation.

Parker 1, I believe that if one continues to sin, committing the same sin over and over without caring,, then they are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-11 says that if we are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, we are not saved). I believe that our hope of glory, or heaven is "Christ in us" (Colossians 1:27). If those have occurred, which they do at the moment we repent and place our trust in Christ to conform us to His image (Romans 8:29-30), that from that point on, we cannot lose our salvation because Ephesians 1:13-14, 4:30 and 1 Peter 1:3-5 say that our seal -- our guarantee -- is the Holy Spirit in us -- and that is for an inheritance which is incorruptible and does not fade away (1 Peter 1:3-5). The Holy Spirit indwelling us, and Christ abiding in us will keep us from the love of sinning. If we love to sin -- if we seek sin out -- it means that the Holy Spirit is in us and therefore we are not saved. The Holy Spirit does not jump in and out of us -- He is promised to be in us forever at the moment of salvation. That is a New Testament distinction. In the Old Testament, many prophets and others said, "The Spirit is upon me..." yet the Spirit always left. In the New Testament, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and He does not leave. That was Jesus' promise in John 14 and 16, and it is the promised seal and guarantee of the passages I stated above. People say that nobody can snatch us from God's hands means that nobody else can do it -- but we can snatch ourselves from God's hands by leaving. That does not fit the context of the passage -- God is more powerful than we ourselves are -- and wouldn't let us jump -- IF INDEED HE IS IN US. That is what I believe all of the warnings in the Bible are -- self-examination tests to see whether or not we are saved. If the Holy Spirit is in us, good works WILL follow because of who HE is in us.

[exrockstar]

No it was not an "IOU." It was a baptism unto repentance. Today, baptism is an act of obedience that serves as an outward testimony of an inward transformation. We have died to the old man and have been resurrected with Christ.

Jesus identified with man when He was baptised. It was the first step in Christ being "numbered among the transgressors (Is. 53:12). He stood as man's representative before the Father and the Father's representative before man. Baptism for the Chrisitan is an act of identification with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.

going back to our original discussion...water baptism was a foreshadow of what the Spirit does at the moment of salvation(1 Corinthians 12:13).

I know you're into works and demonstrations so you'll be determined on what a Christian must do/ or show obedience and that's OK. I get it.

[exrockstar]

"Matthew 3:11

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

the salvation wasn't the baptizing in water and "repenting." if that were the case then Christ should of not died. Everyone should have lined up to get water baptized.

The salvation was believing that He will come after John and baptize you with the Spirit and fire AND ACCEPTING THAT. They accepted that by being baptized in water.

People believed in something that has not happened yet.

I am responding to my own statement becuase there is an error on my part. John's baptism had no salvation power.

John's baptism of repentance was part of his own teaching for that time. It's obsolete now.

my fault

[Guest shiloh357]

No it was not an "IOU." It was a baptism unto repentance. Today, baptism is an act of obedience that serves as an outward testimony of an inward transformation. We have died to the old man and have been resurrected with Christ.

Jesus identified with man when He was baptised. It was the first step in Christ being "numbered among the transgressors (Is. 53:12). He stood as man's representative before the Father and the Father's representative before man. Baptism for the Chrisitan is an act of identification with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.

going back to our original discussion...water baptism was a foreshadow of what the Spirit does at the moment of salvation(1 Corinthians 12:13).

I know you're into works and demonstrations so you'll be determined on what a Christian must do/ or show obedience and that's OK. I get it.

I am not "into" works and demonstrations. Works demonstrating salvation is a biblical principle all over the New Testament. It is not something to be "into." It is basic Christian theology.

Baptism is not foreshadowing of anything. It is a public testimony of the salvation already received.

[leoxiii]

Baptism is not foreshadowing of anything. It is a public testimony of the salvation already received.

The Scriptures clearly state that Baptism now saves you also. Jesus Himself said that one must be baptized in order to be saved. Paul explains how Baptism produces an ontological change in the person being baptized.

Baptism is a public testimony by God. He causes you to be baptized so that others may see and desire the same great hope in salvation.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared: 5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;

What do you think "the laver of regeneration" is?

[Guest shiloh357]

The Scriptures clearly state that Baptism now saves you also. Jesus Himself said that one must be baptized in order to be saved. Paul explains how Baptism produces an ontological change in the person being baptized.

Baptism in water does not save anyone. It is a picture of the salvation already received. We are spiritually baptised, or immersed into Christ at the moment of salvation.

Baptism is a public testimony by God.

No, it is public testimony of salvation and is the Christians first act of obedience and the first of two ordinances given by Christ.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared: 5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;

What do you think "the laver of regeneration" is?

Here is a more accurate rendering:

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The washing of regeneration is not baptism. Regeneration carries with it the connotation of being cleansed from sin. That comes from the blood of Christ, not water.

[exrockstar]

Baptism is not foreshadowing of anything. It is a public testimony of the salvation already received.

"1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

the moment you accept Christ the Spirit places you into one body. Of coarse this is in a spiritual sense. it's not literal. Notice how youre at your PC typing and I'm here in Texas?

We are far away but yet in the same one body.

I would of thought you would have seen this. this is very elementary.

[leoxiii]

The Scriptures clearly state that Baptism now saves you also. Jesus Himself said that one must be baptized in order to be saved. Paul explains how Baptism produces an ontological change in the person being baptized.

Baptism in water does not save anyone. It is a picture of the salvation already received. We are spiritually baptised, or immersed into Christ at the moment of salvation.

Baptism is a public testimony by God.

No, it is public testimony of salvation and is the Christians first act of obedience and the first of two ordinances given by Christ.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared: 5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;

What do you think "the laver of regeneration" is?

Here is a more accurate rendering:

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The washing of regeneration is not baptism. Regeneration carries with it the connotation of being cleansed from sin. That comes from the blood of Christ, not water.

And yet Jesus tells Nicodemus that a man must be born of both water and the Spirit. Then, before His ascension into heaven He proclaims to His disciples that whoever is baptized will be saved. He commissions them to go into all nations teaching and baptizing. Blessed Peter tells us that Baptism now saves us, and Saint Paul tells us that by Baptism we undergo death and resurrection with Christ.

I think you need to study this matter a lot more.

Hebrews 6:1 Wherefore leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to things more perfect, not laying again the foundation of penance from dead works, and of faith towards God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and imposition of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.

[Rick-Parker]

Baptism is not foreshadowing of anything. It is a public testimony of the salvation already received.

The Scriptures clearly state that Baptism now saves you also. Jesus Himself said that one must be baptized in order to be saved. Paul explains how Baptism produces an ontological change in the person being baptized.

Baptism is a public testimony by God. He causes you to be baptized so that others may see and desire the same great hope in salvation.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared: 5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;

What do you think "the laver of regeneration" is?

The only thing required for salvation in belief in Christ and Him Crucified. Nothing else! Don't be deceived by this false doctrine.

[leoxiii]

Baptism is not foreshadowing of anything. It is a public testimony of the salvation already received.

The Scriptures clearly state that Baptism now saves you also. Jesus Himself said that one must be baptized in order to be saved. Paul explains how Baptism produces an ontological change in the person being baptized.

Baptism is a public testimony by God. He causes you to be baptized so that others may see and desire the same great hope in salvation.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared: 5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;

What do you think "the laver of regeneration" is?

The only thing required for salvation in belief in Christ and Him Crucified. Nothing else! Don't be deceived by this false doctrine.

False doctrine:

1 Peter 3:21 Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

(Also, see my sig line.)