can salvation be lost?

[exrockstar]

JESUS said to be baptised. Paul wrote to be baptised. It is a teaching that is part of basic Christian doctrin. IF you look up all the scriptures that speak of baptism, you will find one that hits that cord, that tells you you should be baptised. You will not find one that requires it for salvation, but you will see many scriptures where it is clearly requested of Christians.

Is there a reason you wouldn't?

Jesus said to be baptized here:

15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

if we say "Jesus said to be baptized" then those that shall believe should drive demons out, pick up snakes, speak new tongues, drink deadly poison and not die heal the sick etc.

Can we do this NOW/PRESENTLY or is Jesus lying? Well, we know that Jesus doesn't lie so can you testify that you see people doing all the things that Jesus said will happen for those that believe and are baptized?

And I have said earlier...if some one wants to do it then go ahead. Will I do it? No. Why because I don't need to make a public declaration for what I believe.

Besides when Jesus is quoted in Mark 16:16 he is not saying to be baptized so it can be a public announcement, inward transformation or obedience. None of those reasons are for that baptism.

I don't like people that mix "the summation" of reasons for scripture that wasn't meant for that.

I appreciate us having us a nice peaceful discussion.

[leoxiii]

I believe the pure gospel, not the false gospel that adds baptism to the work of Christ.

Here is the Gospel that I accept:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

That verse is not saying that Baptism is necessary for savation. Again, you are preaching a false gospel.

Why did Jesus mention Baptism in that verse?

Because it shows an act of obedience. To proclaim HIM as LORD and not follow HIS commandments would indicate a spiritual issue. The Baptism doesn't save, it confirms salvation.

Why doesn't the scripture state, "he that is not baptised is not saved"?

It does.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

You misquoted the scripture again.

And your degree in ancient languages is from where?

[leoxiii]

My point is that just because a person sins, it does not mean that they have no faith, nor does it render them unsaved.

So, can one believe and commit adultery and still be saved?

Simple yes or no answer.

YES!!!!!!

Is there a limit to the amount of sin a believer can commit before he loses salvation?

NO!!!!

Jude 1:24 Now to him who is able to preserve you without sin, and to present you spotless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, 25 To the only God our Saviour through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory and magnificence, empire and power, before all ages, and now, and for all ages of ages. Amen.

Yes. Thus a Christian will not sin too much to be preserved and presented before the throne.

So, "without sin" =- "without too much sin"?

Now, who is twisting the Scriptures?

[kross]

JESUS said to be baptised. Paul wrote to be baptised. It is a teaching that is part of basic Christian doctrin. IF you look up all the scriptures that speak of baptism, you will find one that hits that cord, that tells you you should be baptised. You will not find one that requires it for salvation, but you will see many scriptures where it is clearly requested of Christians.

Is there a reason you wouldn't?

Jesus said to be baptized here:

15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

if we say "Jesus said to be baptized" then those that shall believe should drive demons out, pick up snakes, speak new tongues, drink deadly poison and not die heal the sick etc.

Can we do this NOW/PRESENTLY or is Jesus lying? Well, we know that Jesus doesn't lie so can you testify that you see people doing all the things that Jesus said will happen for those that believe and are baptized?

And I have said earlier...if some one wants to do it then go ahead. Will I do it? No. Why because I don't need to make a public declaration for what I believe.

Besides when Jesus is quoted in Mark 16:16 he is not saying to be baptized so it can be a public announcement, inward transformation or obedience. None of those reasons are for that baptism.

I don't like people that mix "the summation" of reasons for scripture that wasn't meant for that.

I appreciate us having us a nice peaceful discussion.

Yes, we can do all those things now. WHen need be. It also says not to tempt the LORD the GOD. So, by all means, HE "has given you authority over snakes and scorpions and all the power of the enemy"

"If you profess me before men I will profess you before my FATHER" the one commandment we have is to show to people to whom we belong. You seem to have a "I want it my way" Christianity. You must live in America.

[kross]

My point is that just because a person sins, it does not mean that they have no faith, nor does it render them unsaved.

So, can one believe and commit adultery and still be saved?

Simple yes or no answer.

YES!!!!!!

Is there a limit to the amount of sin a believer can commit before he loses salvation?

NO!!!!

Jude 1:24 Now to him who is able to preserve you without sin, and to present you spotless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, 25 To the only God our Saviour through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory and magnificence, empire and power, before all ages, and now, and for all ages of ages. Amen.

Yes. Thus a Christian will not sin too much to be preserved and presented before the throne.

So, "without sin" =- "without too much sin"?

Now, who is twisting the Scriptures?

You quoted a scripture that clearly states JESUS will present you blameless and then argue that HE could somehow fail to do it and you say I am twisting scripture? Really?

JESUS will not fail to preserve HIS people and present them blameless before the throne. You ask a question based in a false premise and then quote a scripture that proves your premise false and then start making jabs. I don't get it.

[kross]

I believe the pure gospel, not the false gospel that adds baptism to the work of Christ.

Here is the Gospel that I accept:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

That verse is not saying that Baptism is necessary for savation. Again, you are preaching a false gospel.

Why did Jesus mention Baptism in that verse?

Because it shows an act of obedience. To proclaim HIM as LORD and not follow HIS commandments would indicate a spiritual issue. The Baptism doesn't save, it confirms salvation.

Why doesn't the scripture state, "he that is not baptised is not saved"?

It does.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

You misquoted the scripture again.

And your degree in ancient languages is from where?

OH PLEASE!!! I love how you made a point of cutting out the true quote of the scripture. So let me add it in for those who read this.

The scripture read "must be born of water and THE SPIRIT" Not "born again" of water and THE SPIRIT.

I use the Bible. That is all. If you have so much greater understanding of the original text than the millions who have interpretted it before you, than good for you.

Me, I quote the scriptures as they are in the Bible. There is no place in that sentence in the original greek where a word exists that can be translated "AGAIN". Now that I know what and who you are, you can believe what you want and misquote scripture as much as you want. Good luck with that.

SHAKING THE DUST OFF MY SHOES NOW.

[wyguy]

Chapter and verse, please.

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the man without the Spirit does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him."

Can you claim that the unsaved have the Holy Spirit?

That verse of Scripture clearly says that the unsaved must have the Holy Spirit before they can be saved. The man without the Spirit cannot believe. So, the Spirit comes to the unbeliever before he believes. Now, I know you do not say that people are saved before they believe. So, consider again what you are saying and what the Scripture you just quoted to me says.

They were saved under the Old Covenant.

The Old Covenant prefigured the cross. The OT saints who looked forward to, and had faith in, the promised messiah (Jesus) were saved. The Bible says "it was credited them as righteousness."

They still had to have faith in messiah, who was "slain before the foundation of the world." (Revelation 13:8)

Yes. That is what I meant. We are on the same page here.

Now, it is certain that after they died they were not in heaven, for we know the gates of heaven were shut until Jesus opened them.

So, exactly where is "Abraham's Bosom"?

First, the Holy Spirit convicts the sinner of his sin. He convicts the unsaved of their lost state. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in the lost - He only comes to them through conviction.

"Abraham's bosom" was the area of Hades called "Paradise." It was the place all the saved went before the resurrection of Jesus.

[exrockstar]

Yes, we can do all those things now. WHen need be. It also says not to tempt the LORD the GOD. So, by all means, HE "has given you authority over snakes and scorpions and all the power of the enemy"

"If you profess me before men I will profess you before my FATHER" the one commandment we have is to show to people to whom we belong. You seem to have a "I want it my way" Christianity. You must live in America.

that's it? No scripture saying that we have to do physical baptisms and NOT doing so is disobedient?

We all agree that the "one baptism (Eph 4:5) is the Holy Spirit's but we must do a second/two?

Scripture says one but youre fixed on two?

If you believe in the baptism in Mark 16:16 then you better follow out the order of "healing the sick (v18)" and NOT doing that is being disobedient to the Lord(v20).

It's not tempting the Lord because v20 says it is "His will!"

So what hospital emergency room have you walked into to heal the sick? You haven't.

You're just as bad as the other member here that fails to make a case. You guys are clinching to the word "baptism" on Mark 16:16 but are neglecting to see what comes along with that. You said you believe it but are failing to do it. Don't hide under "tempting" because it is "His will" to do it Mark 16:20.

Well, I was asking questions but got a remark on America's Christianity? ha ha.

[leoxiii]

I believe the pure gospel, not the false gospel that adds baptism to the work of Christ.

Here is the Gospel that I accept:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

That verse is not saying that Baptism is necessary for savation. Again, you are preaching a false gospel.

Why did Jesus mention Baptism in that verse?

Because it shows an act of obedience. To proclaim HIM as LORD and not follow HIS commandments would indicate a spiritual issue. The Baptism doesn't save, it confirms salvation.

Why doesn't the scripture state, "he that is not baptised is not saved"?

It does.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

You misquoted the scripture again.

And your degree in ancient languages is from where?

OH PLEASE!!! I love how you made a point of cutting out the true quote of the scripture. So let me add it in for those who read this.

The scripture read "must be born of water and THE SPIRIT" Not "born again" of water and THE SPIRIT.

I use the Bible. That is all. If you have so much greater understanding of the original text than the millions who have interpretted it before you, than good for you.

Me, I quote the scriptures as they are in the Bible. There is no place in that sentence in the original greek where a word exists that can be translated "AGAIN". Now that I know what and who you are, you can believe what you want and misquote scripture as much as you want. Good luck with that.

SHAKING THE DUST OFF MY SHOES NOW.

No. You quote the Scriptures as they are in your translation of the Bible, just as I do.

You put your faith in your translator as much as I do.

You trust men for the Canon of Scripture just as I do.

I am no expert in Koine Greek and neither are you.

My translation is from Saint Jerome's Vulgate. He was the greatest Scripture scholar that ever lived. I trust that God led him in his translation.

Let me give you just one example:

There are four manuscripts of Saint Mark, all of equal authority, all with different endings.

Saint Jerome decided the longer ending was the correct one, included it in the Vulgate, and now every Bible in existence contains the longer ending of Saint Mark.

See? That is just one reason why I trust Saint Jerome.

[leoxiii]

Yes, we can do all those things now. WHen need be. It also says not to tempt the LORD the GOD. So, by all means, HE "has given you authority over snakes and scorpions and all the power of the enemy"

"If you profess me before men I will profess you before my FATHER" the one commandment we have is to show to people to whom we belong. You seem to have a "I want it my way" Christianity. You must live in America.

that's it? No scripture saying that we have to do physical baptisms and NOT doing so is disobedient?

We all agree that the "one baptism (Eph 4:5) is the Holy Spirit's but we must do a second/two?

Scripture says one but youre fixed on two?

If you believe in the baptism in Mark 16:16 then you better follow out the order of "healing the sick (v18)" and NOT doing that is being disobedient to the Lord(v20).

It's not tempting the Lord because v20 says it is "His will!"

So what hospital emergency room have you walked into to heal the sick? You haven't.

You're just as bad as the other member here that fails to make a case. You guys are clinching to the word "baptism" on Mark 16:16 but are neglecting to see what comes along with that. You said you believe it but are failing to do it. Don't hide under "tempting" because it is "His will" to do it Mark 16:20.

Well, I was asking questions but got a remark on America's Christianity? ha ha.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues. 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they shall drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lay their hands upon the sick, and they shall recover. 19 And the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God. 20 But they going forth preached everywhere: the Lord working withal, and confirming the word with signs that followed.

Where are your signs, Believer?