The Doctrines For My Church

[whatsitmean]

Thanks for your reply Bob and one way.

Calvinism does NOT take away free will.....

This is the bottom line from the text you quoted:

Only by the quickening power of the Holy Spirit may we be brought out of this state of spiritual death. It is God who makes us alive, as we become His craftsmanship (Ephesians 2:1-10).

To understand this doctrine, here is the question then. What role does man

[His son]

What part of repent do you not understand??

I not only believe in repenting I believe that as christians we can live sin free{after a person has truly repented}.

{Matthew 5:8} Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

{Matthew 5:48} Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect

{1 John 5:18} We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not

{1 John 3:3-10} And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he (Jesus Christ) is pure.

Craig

Craig,

That's good preaching. And we can do it cause Christ says we can, and when He sees a true heart, He baptizes us in The Holy Spirit to empower us, and His grace gives us the time we need to work them all out of us, until we are just like He was while He was here.

[His son]

What Paul is saying is that we all have sinned thats why we need to be re-born of the Spirit so that we can live a sin free life.

Have you attained this sin-free status? Does this mean that you're continually forgiven by the grace of God, or does it mean that you are so righteous that you don't sin in the first place?

Steve,

Why do you come up with such assumptions? Are you so desperate to be right? Our salvation is a process in which God's grace extends the execution of our death to our personal relationship with Him until according to His knowledge of our every thought He knows that we are now capable of making the choices we need to make that will take us into His kingdom. This is what our faith in God, and our love for Him will result in.

[BobTriez]

Thanks for your reply Bob and one way.

Calvinism does NOT take away free will.....

This is the bottom line from the text you quoted:

Only by the quickening power of the Holy Spirit may we be brought out of this state of spiritual death. It is God who makes us alive, as we become His craftsmanship (Ephesians 2:1-10).

To understand this doctrine, here is the question then. What role does man

[stevehut]

Why do you come up with such assumptions? Are you so desperate to be right?

Right about what? I haven't stated an opinion at all. I'm trying to understand.

[Work in Progress]

If man is totally depraved, he can never make a right choice to accept Christ unless the Spirit of God directly intervenes and over-rides his will. Since He obviously does not do that for all men, then Christ did not die for the sins of the whole world but only the elect.

Totally depravity is Calvinism, which denies Who-so-ever-will.

You should get this straightened out with your church right away Youth Pastor

Once again, Calvinism is grossly misrepresented :down: In all honesty ? Before making a blanket statement about a doctrine you're unfamiliar with ? At least research it first....please ?

Calvinism does NOT take away free will.....nor does it teach that total depravity means we are as bad as we possibly can be.

Rather than typing it all out, I'll simply quote an excerpt by RC Sproul....which takes away some of the misconceptions I think...

Human Depravity

by R.C. Sproul

As we said in the previous chapter, a common point of debate among theologians focuses on the question, are human beings basically good or basically evil? The hinge upon which the argument turns is the word "basically." It is a virtual universal consensus that nobody is perfect. We accept the maxim: "To err is human."

The Bible says that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Despite this verdict on human shortcomings, the idea persists in our humanistically dominated culture that sin is something peripheral or tangential to our nature. Indeed, we are flawed by sin. Our moral records exhibit blemishes. But somehow we think that our evil deeds reside at the rim or edge of our character and never penetrate to the core. Basically, it is assumed, people are inherently good.

After being rescued from captivity in Iraq and experiencing firsthand the corrupt methods of Saddam Hussein, one American hostage remarked, "Despite all that I endured I never lost my confidence in the basic goodness of people." Perhaps this view rests in part on a sliding scale of the relative goodness or wickedness of people. Obviously some people are far more wicked than others. Next to Saddam Hussein or Adolf Hitler the ordinary run-of-the-mill sinner looks like a saint. But if we lift our gaze to the ultimate standard of goodness - the holy character of God - we realize that what appears to be a basic goodness on an earthly level is corrupt to the core..

The Bible teaches the total depravity of the human race. Total depravity means radical corruption. We must be careful to note the difference between total depravity and "utter" depravity. To be utterly depraved is to be as wicked as one could possibly be. Hitler was extremely depraved, but he could have been worse than he was. I am sinner. Yet I could sin more often and more severely than I actually do. I am not utterly depraved, but I am totally depraved. For total depravity means that I and everyone else are

depraved or corrupt in the totality of our being. There is no part of us that is left untouched by sin. Our minds, our wills, and our bodies are affected by evil. We speak sinful words, do sinful deeds, have impure thoughts. Our very bodies suffer from the ravages of sin.

Perhaps "radical corruption" is a better term to describe our fallen condition than "total depravity." I am using the word "radical" not so much to mean "extreme," but to lean more heavily on its original meaning. "Radical" comes from the Latin word for "root" or "core." Our problem with sin is that it is rooted in the core of our being. It permeates our hearts. It is because sin is at our core and not merely at the exterior of our lives that the Bible says: "There is none righteous, no not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one." Romans 3:10-12

It is because of this condition that the verdict of Scripture is heard: we are "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1); we are "sold under sin" (Romans 7:14); we are in "captivity to the law of sin" (Romans 7:23); and "by nature children of wrath (Ephesians 2:3). Only by the quickening power of the Holy Spirit may we be brought out of this state of spiritual death. It is God who makes us alive as we become His craftsmanship (Ephesians 2:1-10).

Summary:

1. Humanism sees sin at the edge or periphery of human life. It considers

human beings to be basically good.

2. Biblical Christianity teaches that sin permeates the core of our life.

3. Total depravity is not utter depravity. We are not as wicked as we

possibly could be.

4. Radical corruption points to the core sinfulness of our hearts.

Biblical passages for reflection:

Jeremiah 17:9

Romans 8:1-11

Ephesians 2:1-3

Ephesians 4:17-19

1 John 1:8-10

Excerpt from Essential Truths Of The Christian Faith by R. C. Sproul pages 147-149

God Bless,

Bob

Thanks Bob! I have no problem with someone disagreeing with Calvins interpretation of the Holy Scripture. It's those who claim to "know" what Calvinists believe and are dead wrong, misrepresenting Calvinism.

Calvinism does NOT take away free will.....nor does it teach that total depravity means we are as bad as we possibly can be.

Exactly. It means that every part of our being is corrupt. No, we are not all as bad as we can be. In fact , I cringe when people are "shocked" at a "bad person" and their actions. From what I see in Scripture - we should be shocked that we are not ALL "bad people". The heart is DESPARATELY WICKED, the Scripture says. But, only by the grace of God, sometimes some of us do some 'good'. "Total Depravity" means all of our being is corrupt - which is right in Scripture.

If man is totally depraved, he can never make a right choice to accept Christ unless the Spirit of God directly intervenes and over-rides his will.

Correct. "Dead" in sin means exactly that - D-E-A-D. When was the last time you saw a dead person do anything - including reach out to accept a gift?? God must first make the person alive. Salavation is 100% GOD - to give ANY of the credit or glory - even a smidgen - to man is to blaspheme God. Man is fallible, God is not. Man is corrupt, God is not.

Since He obviously does not do that for all men, then Christ did not die for the sins of the whole world but only the elect.

Correct. He died to seal those believers. Otherwise, if He died for EVERYBODY, then He was a failure - since obviously not EVERYONE is saved. I don't serve a failure. God's plan was perfect and did not fail.

Totally depravity is Calvinism, which denies Who-so-ever-will.

It does? That's news to me. The Bible says "whosever will will come". Absolutely true. All men have the capability to hear the Gospel and it is for every man, woman and child. NO man, woman or child will ever be turned away from God's grace.

*************

The Problem - Man is a sinner by nature and by choice.

(Total Depravity - every part of man is tainted by sin . )

Eph. 2:1-3

Ps. 58:3

Rom. 3: 10-12

I Cor. 2:14

The Plan - The Father chooses a people.

(Unconditional election )

Eph 1:4

2Th. 2:13

Rom. 9: 11,15

Rom. 11:7

Acts 13:48

The Provision - The Son atones

(Limited atonement - definate and particular in it's design)

John 10: 14,15 &26

Matt. 1:21

John 17: 2, 9

Eph 1:11

The Persistence - The Spirit Calls

(Irresistible Grace - The elect will respond)

Matt 11:27

Jn. 6: 37, 44

Ezek. 36:26

Acts 13: 48/16: 14b

The Power - God keeps

(Preservation & Perseverance of the Saints; because God keeps them, they persevere in holiness)

Rom 8: 29-39; 11:29

John 10: 27-29

Jude 1: 24, 25

John 5:24

Phil. 1:6

[whatsitmean]

Did you try to research this yourself or are you asking me to research it for you ?

[Guest craig]

Have you attained this sin-free status? Does this mean that you're continually forgiven by the grace of God, or does it mean that you are so righteous that you don't sin in the first place?

I believe that when Christ dwells in us, that we are capable of not sinning--that His residence in us makes us able to resist all temptation.

Praise be to God that there is forgiveness of sins in Christ Jesus, and praise Him also that we are in no way bound to have any thought or act that is contrary to the law of God! We can be pure because Christ dwells in us and not only is He pure, but He makes us able to be pure by keeping us from sin, not only forgiving it.

We do not have to sin.

For I am convinced that sin in no wise is consistent with love for God, and it can not be claimed that one loves Him when they will not keep themselves from sin.

Would like to say more but have to run.

Craig

1 John 2:6

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

[Adstar]

When someone in here reaches a state where they are living sinless lives could they please put up their hands and report to us that they are now sinless.

Please anyone. Don't be shy just tell us when you have reached the stage in your existence where you no longer sin.

And if you have already achieved this status please post right now and tell us all.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

[Guest craig]

Please anyone. Don't be shy just tell us when you have reached the stage in your existence where you no longer sin.

We have the very Spirit in us, that dwelled in Christ! So how can we live in a way that is sinful, when the perfect Christ dwells in us, and cleanses us from all that is contrary to Him? How can we not "walk as He walked" if we are doing always doing that which He did, submitting even to death, saying, "Not my will, but Thine, be done". How could we sin, if that were our prayer?

Do you then suggest that the Spirit that lives in us is not stronger than our flesh?

5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So your way of thinking,if your committing a sin and you die your still going to heaven,I don't think so.

Maybe you can answer me these questions.

1 If all Christians sin and all sinners sin, what is the real difference between a Christian and a sinner?

2 If Christians sin and sinners sin and they are both either sinners or Christians, what is the use of the two words, 'Christian' and 'sinner'?

3 How many sins may a Christian commit and still be a Christian? Or how few sins should a man commit to be rightfully called a good Christian, and how many a bad Christian, and how many sins would it take to make a sinner?