How did the early churches operate?

[princess2000]

The Hail Mary?

Luke1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

What version are you using?

NKJV - And having come in, the angel said to her, "Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!"

NASB - And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."

KJV - And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Luke1: 41 ... And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

The fruit of her womb was Jesus.

Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Holy Mary, Mother of God.

Of course, Elizabeth, speaking in Hebrew or Aramaic, said "the mother of Adonai".

It is very Scriptural.

Elizabeth did not say, "the mother of God." She said, "The mother of my Lord."

There is a difference.

Hardly, "the mother of my Lord" and "the mother of God" seem to be interchangeable. And I think you proved Leo's point, with all your other bible quoting, throw some of those in a spin art machine and you'll end up with the Hail Mary all over again.

Peace out

~Beka

[Guest yod]

Hardly, "the mother of my Lord" and "the mother of God" seem to be interchangeable.

I disagree because of what it implies.

Saying that Miriam was the mother of the "Son of Man" is very different than saying she is the mother of God.

It implies that she is also divinity; though the Bible say nothing of that sort.

That, like so many other Catholic fables, links her and Jesus to the Babylonian cult of Simeramus and Tammuz

[leoxiii]

The Hail Mary?

Luke1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

What version are you using?

The correct one.

He uses the Roman Catholic Bible called the Douay-Rheims, not what we use here. There are many differences.

And I firmly believe the DR to be the superior translation.

[leoxiii]

Hardly, "the mother of my Lord" and "the mother of God" seem to be interchangeable.

I disagree because of what it implies.

Saying that Miriam was the mother of the "Son of Man" is very different than saying she is the mother of God.

It implies that she is also divinity; though the Bible say nothing of that sort.

That, like so many other Catholic fables, links her and Jesus to the Babylonian cult of Simeramus and Tammuz

A mother gives birth to a person. We do not say that your mother has the power to create a soul; because she gave birth to you, who are both body and soul. The God-man Jesus Christ took flesh from the Virgin, and was born from Her immaculate womb. In that regard, She is His Mother just as much as your mother is your mother. She did not create Him any more than your mother created you, and She did not supply His divinity any more than your mother supplied your soul to you. And yet your mother is still your mother. We do not refer to her as "the mother of yod's flesh only" --for she is the mother of yod himself, the whole person. In the same way, Mary is the Mother of Jesus. We do not refer to Her as "the Mother of Jesus' flesh only" --for She is the Mother of Jesus Himself, the whole Person. So, just as your mother is not your creator, so the Mother of Jesus is not His creator. Therefore, no divinity is implied.

But Jesus is divine.

Therefore, Mary is the Mother of a divine Person.

Jesus is God.

Therefore, Mary is the Mother of God.

That is just plain common sense.

As for cultic links, the whole god-man dying and resurrecting at the spring equinox for the salvation of others can be found in many myths, like Hercules, Mithras, Adonis, Osiris.

But I do not base my theology on the lies of the devil.

I do not shy away from a revealed truth just because the devil has perverted it.

[leoxiii]

The Roman Catholics still dont seem to get why protostants brooke away form there church. Still hanging on to what the Pope teaches.

That Mary is the Mother of God is just plain common sense.

Jesus is God.

Mary is His Mother.

Therefore, Mary is the Mother of God.

He grew in Her immaculate womb and She gave birth to Him.

Just like your mother did for you.

She did not create Him any more than your mother created you.

[leoxiii]

The response to Mary was because she was the carrier.

Is this how you refer to your own mother? "My carrier"?

[leoxiii]

When a Jew prays to "Adonai", who is the prayer to?

They imagine it is to YHWH, but since the New Covenant, it cannot be. They do not have the Son. Therefore, they do not have the Father

Again, you didn't answer the question.

And again, Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, not replace the Law.

It is beyond your competence and mine to answer that question.

When a Muslim prays to Allah what god is he praying to?

How do I know? All I know is it is not the same God that I pray to.

Same goes for a practicer of Judaism.

He has not the Son, therefore he has not the Father.

That is right there in the Scriptures, which, I take due note, you have failed to deal with.

So, which is the more egregious offense: To fail to deal with the words of a man, or to fail to deal with the Word of God?

So, when are you going to deal with that Scripture?

[leoxiii]

So you suddenly decided to learn Hebrew?

My friend, I studied Biblical Hebrew at night courses for 3 years at the Jewish Community Center in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. I am no expert, and it was many years ago, but I did learn that a language cannot be understood by using a concordance.

So, what are your credentials?

[Smalcald]

Can we get back to the OP a little bit, also so the thread does not get shut down as I find it interesting.

I have no doubt in my mind that our modern operation of any of our congregations, be it Roman Catholic or Evangelical or Lutheran is much different than how Christians operated and worshiped in the first 300 years after Christ rose from the dead.

So what exactly can we glean from the scripture that we do have? Can we summarize those things?

[OneLight]

The Hail Mary?

Luke1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

What version are you using?

The correct one.

He uses the Roman Catholic Bible called the Douay-Rheims, not what we use here. There are many differences.

And I firmly believe the DR to be the superior translation.

Why, because the RCC told you it was? Ever take it and place it beside teh Greek and Hebrew writings to see how close they align? That is why I can never believe as you do. You are taught from a bible that adds to and changes scripture to fit it's doctrines.