the future of the earth

[Guest okiejack]

"""""""""Today, we have an American society with far more freedom, peace and justice than any society known from history.  We have that because there are so many Bible-believers in America and because Bible-believers have lived here in years past. """"""""""

This is an amazingly inaccurate statement, in my opinion. But then I guess that depends on your definition of "freedom". You may want to ask Native Americans, Austrailian Aboriginies, African natives, and etc. about their freedom today as compared to that of their ancestors. Even in my short lifetime I have seen my own individual freedoms evaporate by way of borders, regulation, law, fees, and etc.

Maybe if you gave some specific illustrations of how we are more free today than a hundred years ago, it would help?

I'm sorry but your whole position is so far from my reality that I have trouble imagining how, in this world, that you came to your stated conclusion.

[zaitzeff]

>This is an amazingly inaccurate statement, in my opinion. >But then I guess that depends on your definition >of "freedom". You may want to ask Native Americans, >Austrailian Aboriginies, African natives, and etc. about their >freedom today as compared to that of their ancestors. Even >in my short lifetime I have seen my own individual freedoms >evaporate by way of borders, regulation, law, fees, and etc.

>Maybe if you gave some specific illustrations of how we are >more free today than a hundred years ago, it would help?

Blacks are free to sit in an open seat on a bus without being beaten for it by the other passengers or police.  Blacks are free to go to restaurants, of their choice, that their tax dollars had supported without being beaten.

And, as you might know, Africans have enslaved each other and still are enslaving each other in Sudan and perhaps other places.  The "slave trade" in the 1700s and 1800s only could exist because various African tribes enslaved others of other tribes and sold them to the whites.  If I recall correctly, it was the British who put a stop to most of the slave trade.

And they stopped because of William Wilberforce, a Christian member of parliament.

Yes, as for the Native Americans, you might recall that before the whites came to the Americas, a number of Indian groups performed human sacrifice to their gods.  I forget the numbers, but, as I recall, the Aztecs of Mexico slaughtered thousands every year of their own people.  Now that the whites have come, with their Bibles, intentional human sacrifice has been stopped.  Yes, the "freedom" of the Natives has really gone way down!

So, yes, African-Americans who live here are no longer able to enslave their next-door neighbor and neither is some white able to enslave his neighbor or someone living Africa.  The local Indian tribes don't sacrifice virgins to various deities.

The australian aborigines don't get to eat people anymore.

So, yes, I guess, their freedom has been diminished, but that freedom surely was not freedom within some kind of godly limitations.  If America is so unfree as you allege, perhaps you would like to move to Canada, or Mexico, or Red China?  How about Russia, instead?

You say that your freedom has been diminished because of borders and fees.  Your freedom to have your own religion and to propagate it is certainly not diminished.  Your freedom to print your views or attend the church of your choice is not diminished.  Your freedom to even create a church of your choice is not diminished.  It is true that in the USA, there are some slight flaws here and there, re Christian real estate business cards, re marijuana use, re physician assisted suicide,

re polygamy.

If you really want to undo the US borders, I am not sure how long you and I would have water to drink and cities which are not destroyed by the next 9/11.

I am not denying that there are some slight flaws and that Christians should take political note and action to remedy those flaws.

In speaking of America, I mean, America as a whole, over the last 200 years, with the exception of slavery of which society has repented.  That America is the most free or nearly the most free land in earth in the history of the earth.

500 years ago, even if there had been an Internet, you and I could not have had this conversation.  We would be found and burned for heresy for not being Roman Catholic, not being Russian Orthodox or whatever.

[Guest okiejack]

""""""""""Blacks are free to sit in an open seat on a bus without being beaten for it by the other passengers or police.  Blacks are free to go to restaurants, of their choice, that their tax dollars had supported without being beaten.""""""""""""

The privately owned slaves were freed of their private masters and are now enslaved, as are the rest of us in the USA, by the federal reserve banking system. If you have a social security number everything you own or ever will own is collateral for the national debt.

"""""""""""""And, as you might know, Africans have enslaved each other and still are enslaving each other in Sudan and perhaps other places............""""""""""""

""

Last time I checked the slave trade all over the world was still going strong. You may want to do some research on the subject and rethink you position here. The popular commodity on the modern, USA, slave market is white females and young boys. I would imagine that the darker races are on the market too but just not as popular at the moment.

""""""""""...........Now that the whites have come, with their Bibles, intentional human sacrifice has been stopped.  Yes, the "freedom" of the Natives has really gone way down!""""""""""""

Are you saying that the humans being sacrificed today are not sacrificed intentionally? All those abortions are just accidentally sacrificed to the god of convenience? All those lives being sacrificed to the god of war are just accidental?

I cite the US Patriot act as an example of diminished freedoms also.

"""""""""""The australian aborigines don't get to eat people anymore."""""""""""

They must be the only race of people who don't include a certain number of cannibles in their number. Have you any proof of your position here?

"""""""""""You say that your freedom has been diminished because of borders and fees.  Your freedom to have your own religion and to propagate it is certainly not diminished.  Your freedom to print your views or attend the church of your choice is not diminished.  Your freedom to even create a church of your choice is not diminished.  It is true that in the USA, there are some slight flaws here and there, re Christian real estate business cards, re marijuana use, re physician assisted suicide,

re polygamy."""""""""""""&qu

ot;"""""""""

There has never been a time in history that we humans were not free to worship as we please. My freedom to speak and or print my views no longer exists in the USA. If you missed it the "Patriot Act." ended those freedoms last year.

Marjuana is still against the law as is darvon, cocain, methamphetamines, etc. without a dr's perscription. Up until a few decades ago, people were free to use drugs, kill themselves, and marry as many people as they wanted to. Now we have laws against all those freedoms.

I can see that we don't agree and may possibly live in completely different realities because of our obviously different background experiences.

One thing I noticed is that you use the Bible for support only when it supports your chosen position. However, when the Bible does not support your position you discount it. My question is; How do yo determine which parts of the Bible are true and which parts are not true?

"""""""""500 years ago, even if there had been an Internet, you and I could not have had this conversation.  We would be found and burned for heresy for not being Roman Catholic, not being Russian Orthodox or whatever."""""""""""""&qu

ot;""""

I wasn't alive five-hundred years ago. This is why I cited what I've seen during my half century of existance. My other source of knowledge is the Bible. Both of these sources are in agreement that the world is getting worse not better. According to my Bible, the world will finally get so ripe with evil that GOD will cleanse it with fire.

Oh! Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and that includes the good old USA. So if popularity is GOD's game? Then Islam is winning. Fact is, Islam is what you are preaching.