Book of Job:some basic questions

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Please humour me with these questions. I intend them to be the simplest as possible re the Book of Job-I am trying to look for doctrine-reproof-correction-instruction in righteousness as, to me, <2Timothy 3:16-17> defines All Scripture to be. I have studied <Job> enough, i believe, to "know" it is extremely difficult and that theodicy is an enormous doctrine and that "we see thru a glass darkly" and and and..

1. Who in the world is Elihu? In <Job 32> he shows up after "...Job, because [he was] righteous in his own eyes." He speaks until <Job 37:24> after saying "...he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee." at <Job 36:4>. No one is reported to speak to Elihu, including the LORD.

2. Is Elihu referring to himself at <Job 36:4>?

3. When The LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind at <38:1-2> He said "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" and again at <Job 40:8> answered the LORD unto Job "Wilt thou disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?" Later at <Job 42:7> "...the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me [the thing that is] right, as my servant Job hath."

3.1. What did Job speak of the LORD that was right?

3.2. Since Job's 3 "comforters" said-it seems -NOTHING right about the LORD, then how should we view the Scripture of all things that they said from <Job 4> and onward? Again, with doctrine-reproof-correction-instruction in righteousness in mind, should we take all they said and consider the opposite when they speak of the LORD? Or what?

4. To me, the 2 major dreadful things to NOT DO are at <Job 38:2> and <Job 40:8>. Since i understand neither of these 2 statements of the LORD as obviously resulting from Job and his "comforters" discussion, i half -think that we are being TOLD by the LORD to not sit around in small groups and discuss theology or even discuss anything. Or maybe it is okay for unimportant people to discuss things in groups, since the LORD would have little to no reason to pay attention to them? The LORD [i believe] was furious with Job and since i don't yet understand why {especially} <Job 38:1-2>, i sure want to go 180 degrees in the opposite direction of His fury. I half-think "But the LORD [is] in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him" <Habakkuk 2:20> may be applicable and half-think we/i should take a vow of silence. Comments? [please no cheap shots about yes, YOU should take a vow of silence! if you give me any shots, make them inexpensive shots and not cheap ones! :hug:]

Edited July 19, 2004 by ajesuschrist_mathetes

[tsth]

Just wanted you to know that you are not being ignored, it's just that Job is a pretty big one! I personally love that book, and had some pretty major revelations on it, but, there are others who see it differently, in terms of who Elihu is. I'm afraid that the questions you asked all together, may be too big a bite. You might want to do a search though and look at some of the previous responses on Job here on WB's. I know traveller did one not too long ago, that she may still be chewing on. huh trav.....

Anyway, I can send you what I've got, via pm if you'd like.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

Chuck Swindoll just finished a major study of the book of Job. I heard some of it on his radio program and it was very good. I believe he has a book on it, CDs and tape. It would be well worth your while to check it out. I thoroughly enjoyed what I heard of it.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[truthnluv]

Please humour me with these questions. I intend them to be the simplest as possible re the Book of Job-I am trying to look for doctrine-reproof-correction-instruction in righteousness as, to me, <2Timothy 3:16-17> defines All Scripture to be. I have studied <Job> enough, i believe, to "know" it is extremely difficult and that theodicy is an enormous doctrine and that "we see thru a glass darkly" and and and..

1. Who in the world is Elihu? In <Job 32> he shows up after "...Job, because [he was] righteous in his own eyes." He speaks until <Job 37:24> after saying "...he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee." at <Job 36:4>. No one is reported to speak to Elihu, including the LORD.

2. Is Elihu referring to himself at <Job 36:4>?

3. When The LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind at <38:1-2> He said "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" and again at <Job 40:8> answered the LORD unto Job "Wilt thou disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?" Later at <Job 42:7> "...the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me [the thing that is] right, as my servant Job hath."

3.1. What did Job speak of the LORD that was right?

3.2. Since Job's 3 "comforters" said-it seems -NOTHING right about the LORD, then how should we view the Scripture of all things that they said from <Job 4> and onward? Again, with doctrine-reproof-correction-instruction in righteousness in mind, should we take all they said and consider the opposite when they speak of the LORD? Or what?

4. To me, the 2 major dreadful things to NOT DO are at <Job 38:2> and <Job 40:8>. Since i understand neither of these 2 statements of the LORD as obviously resulting from Job and his "comforters" discussion, i half -think that we are being TOLD by the LORD to not sit around in small groups and discuss theology or even discuss anything. Or maybe it is okay for unimportant people to discuss things in groups, since the LORD would have little to no reason to pay attention to them? The LORD [i believe] was furious with Job and since i don't yet understand why {especially} <Job 38:1-2>, i sure want to go 180 degrees in the opposite direction of His fury. I half-think "But the LORD [is] in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him" <Habakkuk 2:20> may be applicable and half-think we/i should take a vow of silence. Comments? [please no cheap shots about yes, YOU should take a vow of silence! if you give me any shots, make them inexpensive shots and not cheap ones! :hug:]

Hi, there. In answer to some of your questions; you should not take the opposite of everything Job's friends said. Not everything the first three friends said was wrong(cf. 4:3-4, 5:9-10, 8:11-12).

However, the overall points they were trying to make were wrong. They were telling Job that he sinned, was being correctively chastised, and needed to repent, in that order.

Elihu, on the other hand, redirects Job's focus. Job was saying I have done nothing wrong. I am being persecuted for no reason.... I just want to die. Elihu was saying whatever God does is right. He is Just and Good. Whatever God does is for your benefit and learning. He tells Job he must wait on the Lord. He encourages Job not to take the wrong attitude.

Everything is summed up in 42:7-9. God says that the first three men were wrong. He says that Job was right.

He does not address Elihu, but I think it is safe to say he was not included in the group of men who spoke of God what was not right.

There is alot to be learned in Job. You learn about God. You learn about your enemy the devil=diablos=slanderer who accuses you day and night before God's throne. You learn about trials and tribulations.

You learn about dragons and dinosaurs(smile).

Etc.

God bless in your study!

[Adstar]

Good points truthnluv

To me the message is don't assume that when tragedy hits someone that it is Gods punishment for something, or that when great fortune comes that it is Gods reward for ones righteousness.

If one faces all things with the right Spirit then we can be refined and molded into the people that God wants us to be, so we can serve Him for the purpose He has in mind for us.

The best policy is to always seek God diligently and be sensitive to conscience. Do not start to worry over why something is happening or why something happed. Just have faith that all things work for the best for those who love God. Show some perseverance and keep on going until the end.

All praise the Ancient Of Days

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Thank everyone for their replies. It must be me, i quess. I thought i was asking some basic and non-theological questions about <Job>. At least i tried to. My hope was to get those few basic questions answered and then as time and The Holy Spirit permitted go back and start at <Job 1:1>. No fault of anyone here, but i think if i get one more exegesis and/or commentary on ANYTHING right now i will explode! [or maybe my brain will!].

Over 20 plus years i have heard this view on a doctrine, then that view. Have read and speed-read many books, and right now am bewildered at the-seeming-lack of unity on what i would think there would be unity on. Almost 2000 years since the Resurrection of Jesus Christ: The Church does not even speak with one voice on the Iraq war, abortion, gay marriage. To me, i find this unacceptable and like being in an "Alice in Wonderland" world. I try to think what the White House has to put up with when, say, PCUSA tells them to keep abortion legal. Then LCMS emailed me saying they don't take positions on pro/con Iraq war.

PCUSA and LCMS, by the way, are Presbysterian Church USA and Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. I have kept up somewhat with what some other denominations are saying. Roman Catholicism against Iraq war, to me ignoring the Scriptures [e.g.<Matthew 7:12> an obvious one:if you were in Saddam's torture chamber would you want George Bush's coalition to come rescue you or some Church/U.N. to debate it for years and years and years?]

Soapbox mode off.

[tsth]

Thank everyone for their replies. It must be me, i quess. I thought i was asking some basic and non-theological questions about <Job>. At least i tried to. My hope was to get those few basic questions answered and then as time and The Holy Spirit permitted go back and start at <Job 1:1>. No fault of anyone here, but i think if i get one more exegesis and/or commentary on ANYTHING right now i will explode! [or maybe my brain will!].

Over 20 plus years i have heard this view on a doctrine, then that view. Have read and speed-read many books, and right now am bewildered at the-seeming-lack of unity on what i would think there would be unity on. Almost 2000 years since the Resurrection of Jesus Christ: The Church does not even speak with one voice on the Iraq war, abortion, gay marriage. To me, i find this unacceptable and like being in an "Alice in Wonderland" world. I try to think what the White House has to put up with when, say, PCUSA tells them to keep abortion legal. Then LCMS emailed me saying they don't take positions on pro/con Iraq war.

PCUSA and LCMS, by the way, are Presbysterian Church USA and Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. I have kept up somewhat with what some other denominations are saying. Roman Catholicism against Iraq war, to me ignoring the Scriptures [e.g.<Matthew 7:12> an obvious one:if you were in Saddam's torture chamber would you want George Bush's coalition to come rescue you or some Church/U.N. to debate it for years and years and years?]

Soapbox mode off.

I hear ya brother!!! It just doesn't make sense does it?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[truthnluv]

Thank everyone for their replies. It must be me, i quess. I thought i was asking some basic and non-theological questions about <Job>. At least i tried to. My hope was to get those few basic questions answered  and then as time and The Holy Spirit permitted go back and start at <Job 1:1>. No fault of anyone here, but i think if i get one more exegesis and/or commentary on ANYTHING right now i will explode! [or maybe my brain will!].

Over 20 plus years i have heard this view on a doctrine, then that view. Have read and  speed-read many books, and right now am bewildered at the-seeming-lack of unity on what i would think there would be unity on. Almost 2000 years since the Resurrection of Jesus Christ: The Church does not even speak with one voice on the Iraq war, abortion, gay marriage. To me, i find this unacceptable and like being in an "Alice in Wonderland" world. I try to think what the White House has to put up with when, say, PCUSA tells them to keep abortion legal. Then LCMS emailed me saying they don't take positions on pro/con Iraq war.

PCUSA and LCMS, by the way, are Presbysterian Church USA and Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. I have kept up somewhat with what some other denominations are saying. Roman Catholicism against Iraq war, to me ignoring the Scriptures [e.g.<Matthew 7:12> an obvious one:if you were in Saddam's torture chamber would you want George Bush's coalition to come rescue you or some Church/U.N. to debate it for years and years and years?]

Soapbox mode off.

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted explanations. I will answer your questions specifially as you asked them this time :t:

1. Elihu was a young man who happened to be there while Job was arguing with his three friends.

2. Yes, Elihu is refering to himself.

3. Everything Job said in reference to God was correct.

3b. No, don't take the opposite of EVERY SINGLE THING that everybody else said. Their overall assertations were wrong as a whole.

4. In those verses God is saying don't say things about Him that He has not said about Himself. And don't accuse Him of being unjust(you being the one who IS just).

No, it doesn't mean don't discuss God in groups. No, it doesn't mean take a vow of silence.

I hope that's better.

truthnluv

Edited July 21, 2004 by truthnluv

[WISDOM]

Greetings,

Chuck Swindoll just finished a major study of the book of Job. I heard some of it on his radio program and it was very good. I believe he has a book on it, CDs and tape. It would be well worth your while to check it out. I thoroughly enjoyed what I heard of it.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

And it is indeed a great recommendation made by D.E.!!

The book is outstanding and will prove to be an excellent source of reference material for you ajc_m.....

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Thank everyone for their replies. It must be me, i quess. I thought i was asking some basic and non-theological questions about <Job>. At least i tried to. My hope was to get those few basic questions answered