Faith AND Science

[e lansing]

I like what yeddy said. I think that science is useful and has help us understand a lot. I think that the only true relationship between faith and science is that science will continue to confirm the truthfulness of the Bible. True science continues to disprove a lot of there own theories and in that they continue to confirm the truthfulness of the Bible. like what? like there fossil record. Still no fossils that show one life form changeing into another. The fossil record just shows Stasis and suddeen appesrance. As evolution supposes, all life forms had a common ancestors and chains of intermediates linking those ancestors, the fossil record should overflow with many such intermediate forms between species. But there has not! I dont know why they still call it a theory This fossil record seems to confirm the account of Genesis.

thanks. i am always careful when referring to evolultion, as i have noticed that while evolutionists are not so nice to creationists, we as Christians can sometimes be arrogant and dismissive of evolutionists. I believe this to be wrong. Our Christian faith states that we should 'love your neighbour'. in the Bible the neighbour was alluded to as a Samaritan. Now history knows that a Samaritan to a Jew was like a child molester is to us..... repulsive, disgusting and unclean. I'm not saying that evolutionists are like child molesters, but that sometimes we as Christians treat them as such, when we should be treating them with love I also believe the Charles Darwin was a brilliant scientist and had some great ideas and was very thorough. Mostly his followers brought about the evolution theory regarding humans. his main concern was with plants and animals as he was a naturalist and wrote the book 'The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection' ('The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life'). you will find that a man named Huxley had more to do with evolution of humans so as to remove science from religion for his own purposes. Let me state here categorically that i am a creationist and believe the Bible when it states:

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day

Gen 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

To me science is more than just evolution tho. evolution is just one theory in science. There are many many more things in science and i think as Christians we tend to get hung up on it. I guess it's because generally in science they teach evolution. we need to look at science from a creation perspective and the glory and wonder of our Creator. Science is about how our bodies work, our minds, how the world works in complimentary ways, why we do things, and it answers a lot of questions about how our wonderful God put everything together. It gives us as Christians the chance to explore creation at it's smallest point, to the vast array of stars and planets. To me science brings my faith back to God, and God lovingly shares His science with me

Right! My issue has been that they take it to far when they use there position of influence to teach there theroies as fact, to the point of eleminating any possiblity of a creator! Science helps us understand how things work and we as a society have been bless by a lot of there efforts. I appreciate that.

[e lansing]

Name me something you take on faith that science proves.

Consider this, Job 26:7, the oldest book in the bible, Job ststed that the earth hangs on nothing. Science has proven that that nothing that Job was talking about we know now as gravity. Job knew this brfore electricity was discovered. Jobs faith and science proved him true in his statement!

Do you take those ideas on faith? Job may have taken it on faith, but you don't because we now, through experimentation and practice, know it as fact. I think the point I was trying to make in earlier posts was that once "knowledge" is gained through science, faith in that particular idea, is no longer needed. To me science is "knowledge gained". Maybe it should say Faith vs. Theory.

Perhaps! However, faith is knowing, theory is not knowing. Like the fossil record, it disproves or greatly weakens the theory it is suppose to support. But its intresting how it confirms the Genesis account. The fossil record shows that they just appeared. This confirms what i have always believed.

[OneLight]

I have not kept up with this thread, which I had intended to, but allow me to remind all of the purpose of the thres.

I ask that this thread be kept to a civil discussion where neither Faith or Science is put down. As Dave mentioned in another thread, if you can not be civil and feel like placing labels, step back and refrain from posting until a more mature attempt to word your feelings and beliefs can be made.

Throughout the discussions being made about science and faith, I have read more then once that Christians and scientist are at odds. I would like to discuss this. I see science as a tool to view the wonderful creations of God. Science has developed to such a degree that we can now measure time in nanoseconds or smaller, see "light years" away and view things that are so small it boggles the imagination. So, why is it that one has to decide between the two?

As I see it, science, like any other tool, can be used for good or for bad. I do not see where science has to come against God or that God ever came against science. I do, however, see how some do take science to try to deny God and that God does come against some uses of science. Let me explain. Making a weapon that will destroy life would be something that God would not be in favor of, yet He would be delighted in the fact that we can view His creation is both outward reaches of space and inward parts of creation.

What part of science can both stand on in agreement? In a civil manner, can we discuss why the two can not mix?

Please, for this one thread, can we try to find common ground that we have and not try to prove one is right and the other is wrong. You have enough of those threads already.

[OneLight]

That is why I addressed this issue. Because of one statement (not picking on anyone) a rebuttal should be allowed, but as it has been proven all too many times on other threads, it gets ugly and does not honor our Lord in any way.

Because of this, I do ask that we focus on what there is in common. If this can not be done, then the reason behind the thread has failed and the thread will not continue.

God Bless,

Alan

[e lansing]

Perhaps! However, faith is knowing, theory is not knowing. Like the fossil record, it disproves or greatly weakens the theory it is suppose to support. But its intresting how it confirms the Genesis account. The fossil record shows that they just appeared. This confirms what i have always believed.

No, it does not. Here are the major groups of living things as they appear in the fossil record, how does this support a literal interpretation of the Genesis account? Here's another way to look at the same information.

Lurker

So let me guess, this other way of looking at the fossil record is the right way to look at it, right! I'm sure there is no bias in your way of looking at it right! Right!

[e lansing]

I understand the sentiment of trying to find common ground, but letting statements like "the fossil record supports Genesis" go unanswered essentially sets up whomever states them to walk straight into an ambush. As a brother in Christ I'm begging you DO NOT USE THIS ARGUMENT with a non-believer! You will lose their respect immediately as this is clearly and unequivocally false, at the very least if you are going to try and reconcile the fossil record with a literal Genesis go with the argument that the fossil record is not complete. You will still be wrong in your conclusion, but at least you will not be using false evidence. I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to help you argue honestly. If nothing else sparring with me should only better equip you to debate non-believers.

Lurker

you care about our arguments!! You want to help funny how you never seem to offer any better arguments for the creation position Heres whats obvious, you are an evolutionist who appears to enjoy presenting your credulous positions. Sorry, i dont buy it!

[e lansing]

When we look at where faith and science agree I simply find a lot more room for agreement than you, I don't think this requires either of us to question each other's faith. Christians have re-evaluated their interpretations of scripture for numerous reasons over the centuries on a myriad of issues. I'm going to agree with OneLight that this thread should concentrate on agreements rather than disagreements, and one thing we should be able to agree on is that Christians on both sides of this issue should strive to use accurate and truthful arguments. Thanks.

Lurker

so does this mean we wont hear from you on this thread?

[Guest]

.... I understand the sentiment of trying to find common ground, but letting statements like "the fossil record supports Genesis" go unanswered essentially sets up whomever states them to walk straight into an ambush. As a brother in Christ I'm begging you DO NOT USE THIS ARGUMENT with a non-believer! You will lose their respect immediately as this is clearly and unequivocally false, at the very least if you are going to try and reconcile the fossil record with a literal Genesis go with the argument that the fossil record is not complete. You will still be wrong in your conclusion, but at least you will not be using false evidence. I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to help you argue honestly. If nothing else sparring with me should only better equip you to debate non-believers ....

Be Blessed

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:18

Beloved

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14

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Honestly Brother, The Sifting Of The Debris During The Great Flood And Break Up Of The Deep Explainers The Order Of The Fossil Record Nicely

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 1;20

But Most Man Will Not Believe

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Jeremiah 17:5

And Be Blessed

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

Jeremiah 17:7

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

>>>>>()<<<<<

Dear Reader

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Believe

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 11:25-26

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[e lansing]

Honestly Brother, The Sifting Of The Debris During The Great Flood And Break Up Of The Deep Explainers The Order Of The Fossil Record Nicely

This is not a point which both science and a literal interpretation of Genesis can agree on, I would suggest you review the OP before pushing this point further.

Lurker

See, sicence promotes the creationist stand point. THIS IS THE CONCLUSION WE END UP WITH WHEN SCIENCE HAS NO REAL ANSWERS TO ORIGINS! Learning how a lot of things work is the place for science, how things started is the place for God and His Word!

e

[Ciscokid]

Name me something you take on faith that science proves.

Consider this, Job 26:7, the oldest book in the bible, Job ststed that the earth hangs on nothing. Science has proven that that nothing that Job was talking about we know now as gravity. Job knew this brfore electricity was discovered. Jobs faith and science proved him true in his statement!

Actually 'gravity' is something. If you don't believe me, take an elevator to the top floor of a very tall building and jump out a window. If you refer to something as "nothing" because it's invisible then that has extremely harmful theological implications.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Ciscokid