Church Gimmick Fills Pews

[Blien]

Sick

Agreed

[kross]

You gotta meet people where they are.

To be a fisher of men, GOD gives us understanding of whaqt bait to use.

[Botz]

You gotta meet people where they are.

To be a fisher of men, GOD gives us understanding of whaqt bait to use.

Precisely...

This 'gimmick' may or may not work...but the guy is giving it a go. Controversial...yes. Unbiblical...not that I can see, unless he is abusing his ministry somehow. In spite of his unorthodox approach, he evidently has a heart for people, and is not afraid of ruffling religious feathers.

[Fez]

Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

Mat 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Mat 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.

Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'

Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Mat 7:24 "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Mat 7:25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.

Mat 7:26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Mat 7:27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it."

Firstly I think what this church is doing is wrong. And here is why. The "gate" being offered is an incentive from mammon, and it is wide. It is the narrow gate that leads to life. I fear more for the people who are coming for the money, than the pastor or the church (I think they are misguided, yes). God is not the incentive for these people to come to church, mammon is, like it or not.

This is not faith tested by fire, or built on a rock, it is built on the promise of a $, on sand, not on an eternal life. And as such the danger of a fall is greater.

Blessings

[Botz]

Firstly I think what this church is doing is wrong. And here is why. The "gate" being offered is an incentive from mammon, and it is wide. It is the narrow gate that leads to life. I fear more for the people who are coming for the money, than the pastor or the church (I think they are misguided, yes). God is not the incentive for these people to come to church, mammon is, like it or not.

This is not faith tested by fire, or built on a rock, it is built on the promise of a $, on sand, not on an eternal life. And as such the danger of a fall is greater.

Blessings

I didn't mean to prolong a debate on this issue, but it is bringing up some interesting points that are not all monosyllabic hit and run answers.

I can see why people might contend with the method of this Pastor's gimmick...and I neither agree or disagree with it. From what little I know having simply read one newspaper cutting, he seems to be making 'mammon' his servant, and utilising it for the spead of the Gospel, albeit it in a controversial manner, but he is teaching people godly principles about the correct use of money, even the money that is won/given away, and on top of this he has a captive audience who have the opportunity to hear the gospel.

We certainly can't judge that he is not preaching the truth and is deceiving people with a watered down Gospel...yes a thousand extra people turn up because there is the opportunity to obtain some free money...but hopefully they can also be surprised to learn that through Jesus they can have the free gift of eternal life.

If I am wrong about this guy, and his motives are off centre and his heart is in the wrong place, then I am wrong, but I will not jump on the band-wagon and start slagging him off just because he tries something different....it is probably cost-effective in the long run anyway

[south]

From Chicago Tribune

At Lighthouse Church of All Nations in Alsip, the congregation can get more than just prayer at the Sunday worship services.

If a lucky -- or "blessed and highly favored" -- churchgoer is in the right seat, they can also receive a cash prize.

At each of the three Sunday services, the Rev. Dan Willis pulls a number of one seat from a bag and the worshiper in that seat wins a cash prize. Two of the churchgoers win $250 and the third gets $500. The church gives away $1,000 each Sunday, Willis said.

The cash prize is part of Willis' recent focus on helping his congregation pay bills and begin a debt-free life, he said.

"We've had soooo many of our people displaced from jobs, facing foreclosure," he said. "When people's faith was high, their debt was down. When their faith was down, their debt was high. I realized the two are connected."

Willis concedes the cash prize is a gimmick to fill the pews. But he's unapologetic about the plan, because it's working. On a typical Sunday, his church draws about 1,600 people to its three Sunday services. But since the money giveaway started, about five weeks ago, the congregation has grown to about 2,500 each week, he said. The money for the giveaway comes from the church offering. Lighthouse is a non-denominational church.

"If I can get someone in here and teach them and give them money, that's what I'm going to do," he said.

As part of the lessons, Willis set up a shredder near the pulpit to encourage church members to shred their credit cards and commit to stop spending. He talks about budgeting, tackling past-due bills and saving. He encourages the prize winners to use the money to pay down their bills, rather than splurge on new items. One Sunday, he gave away 15 savings accounts with $25 already in them. And he had bank representatives at the service so church members could set up accounts.

"The Bible says even an ant stores up in the summer so it can live in the winter," Willis said. "Even an ant can teach us. Even an ant knows how to save. We, with intellect, don't know how to do it. When people see that in Scripture, it takes on a whole different level."

I recently heard a preaching about John 6 when Jesus fed the 5,000 from 5 barley loaves and 2 fish. In verse 14-15, it says...

John 6:14-15 (NIV)

14After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world." 15Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

Later, the crowd found Jesus on the other side of the lake...

John 6:25-27 (NIV)

Jesus the Bread of Life

25When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, "Rabbi, when did you get here?"

26Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."

Jesus withdrew from them because he knew they only wanted him because he provided them with bread, and not because the people understood nor believed that He was the Bread of Life, the bread that gave life.

John 6:29 (NIV)

29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

John 6:35 (NIV)

35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.

Now, as to the OP, I wonder what will happen to this church if the pastor stops giving money.

Blessings...South

[OneLight]

God draws people through the preaching of His word and the working of the Holy Spirit. Man believes he can up the anti by cute antics like video games night for teems and pew lotteries. That is the difference between God and man. God knows what is needed ... man thinks he can help.

[Fez]

God draws people through the preaching of His word and the working of the Holy Spirit. Man believes he can up the anti by cute antics like video games night for teems and pew lotteries. That is the difference between God and man. God knows what is needed ... man thinks he can help.

Amen, South and Onlight both make a good point!

[Botz]

God draws people through the preaching of His word and the working of the Holy Spirit. Man believes he can up the anti by cute antics like video games night for teems and pew lotteries. That is the difference between God and man. God knows what is needed ... man thinks he can help.

Amen, South and Onlight both make a good point!

Yes they are reasonable points

But I still contend that there is a lot more lee-way with G-d than we seem to realise...and as far as I can ascertain, the intentions of this pastor are not unrighteous, which is why I can't understand the need to condemn what he is attempting so quickly and with such little evidence...especially in the light of the way he is actively teaching 'kingdom principles' in the handling of money.

I am just thankful that G-d looks at a person's heart.

[CSLewis]

I am all for helping out the poor - our offering is used as a discretionary fund for the poor - but to hold a lottery??? And to have credit card shredders in the church and bank representatives signing up people for savings accounts? We go to church to worship God not to see if we can win a price- go ahead and buy a scratch off lottery card on your way home from church if that's what you want.

How easily Satan can use this to his advantage - for instance what if someone who is well to do won it and kept the money ? Meanwhile Joe in the pew next to you can't pay his mortgage and his house is being forclosed. Not only is playing dice wrong in Gods house this gimmick is going to be used to foster greed and stir up envy and jealousy among Christians.

We come to church to worship and to be fed spiritually with the word of God and the Eucharist - not to try to set up a bank account and try to "sell" Gods message with gimmicks. Churches need to focus on creating and nurturing ministers of God not seek to fill pews.