KINGDOM OF MESSIAH

[Guest shiloh357]

The world doesn't recognize the hand of God in the establishment of modern Israel. Neither do many, many Christians. As a result, like the rest of humanity they cannot recognize the signs of the times.

But many Christians do recognize the hand of God in the establishment of modern Israel just as we recognize the hand of God in the establishment of England, the United States, Paraguay, etc. God is and has always been active in the affairs of men - from the beginnning. You appear to have a narrow view of what

[lekh l'kha]

The covenant made with the house of Israel ended. It was conditional and the house of Israel broke that covenant through their rebellion and unbelief. For that reason God has made a

[Guest shiloh357]

The world doesn't recognize the hand of God in the establishment of modern Israel. Neither do many, many Christians. As a result, like the rest of humanity they cannot recognize the signs of the times.

But many Christians do recognize the hand of God in the establishment of modern Israel just as we recognize the hand of God in the establishment of England, the United States, Paraguay, etc. God is and has always been active in the affairs of men - from the beginnning. You appear to have a narrow view of what

[Guest shiloh357]

The world doesn't recognize the hand of God in the establishment of modern Israel. Neither do many, many Christians. As a result, like the rest of humanity they cannot recognize the signs of the times.

But many Christians do recognize the hand of God in the establishment of modern Israel just as we recognize the hand of God in the establishment of England, the United States, Paraguay, etc. God is and has always been active in the affairs of men - from the beginnning. You appear to have a narrow view of what

[traveller]

Excuse the interruption here, but the way I read it, it's still in progress.

Eze 36:21 But I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations to which they came.

Eze 36:22 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. Eze 36:23 And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes.

Eze 36:24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.

Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.

Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Eze 36:28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Eze 36:29 And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. And I will summon the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine upon you.

Eze 36:30 I will make the fruit of the tree and the increase of the field abundant, that you may never again suffer the disgrace of famine among the nations.

Eze 36:31 Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.

Eze 36:32 It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord GOD; let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel.

Some 4000 yars after God promised the land to Abraham, the people are gathered back to the physical nation. God's plan for that land is not finished, nor is His plan for the nation of Israel. We are witnessing the fulfillment of that prophecy, not the end of it.

Certainly it is not for their faithfulness, nor their beliefs, because surely they continue to live in denial - but becasue of the Lord's "I will," He will bring it to fruition. He is Sovereign, and His will be done.

I pray that His will be done in my own life, for surely I was also once lost.

Anyway - that's how I see it. You are now returned to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Guest shiloh357]

The covenant made with Abraham included the *unconditional promise* that all people of all nations would be blessed through Abraham

[Guest shiloh357]

But their hope is not based on land

No one said their hope is based on land.

This truth has no bearing on the biblical fact that the nation of Israel rebelled in unbelief and their right to the land provided in God

[lekh l'kha]

Excuse the interruption here, but the way I read it, it's still in progress.

Eze 36:21 But I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations to which they came.

Eze 36:22 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. Eze 36:23 And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes.

Eze 36:24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.

Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.

Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Eze 36:28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Eze 36:29 And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. And I will summon the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine upon you.

Eze 36:30 I will make the fruit of the tree and the increase of the field abundant, that you may never again suffer the disgrace of famine among the nations.

Eze 36:31 Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.

Eze 36:32 It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord GOD; let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel.

Some 4000 yars after God promised the land to Abraham, the people are gathered back to the physical nation. God's plan for that land is not finished, nor is His plan for the nation of Israel. We are witnessing the fulfillment of that prophecy, not the end of it.

Certainly it is not for their faithfulness, nor their beliefs, because surely they continue to live in denial - but becasue of the Lord's "I will," He will bring it to fruition. He is Sovereign, and His will be done.

I'm glad you see it that way, traveller - because the way you see it is the Word of God and not the word of God twisted by vain theology produced in the imaginations of Gentiles puffed up with pride against Israel. What those who follow this theology which twists the Word of God refuse to acknowledge is what has been pointed out again and again - the fact that there are not only two covenants, and the fact that that the covenant which elected the physical seed of Abraham eternally and promised them the land as their everlasting inheritance, was based upon the promise of God alone and not upon the covenant which came 430 years later which they broke:

1. Abrahamic Covenant - based alone upon God's "I will" - an everlasting covenant. Sealed by God's oath. Promises the everlasting nature of the election of the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) and the land of Canaan as their everlasting inheritance.

2. Mosaic Covenant - based on God's "IF YOU WILL, THEN I WILL" - a temporary covenant which has been replaced by the New Covenant. Ratified with blood.

3. Davidic Covenant - based alone upon God's "I will" - an everlasting covenant. Sealed by God's oath and promises the everlasting nature of king David's kingdom (the promised land), throne (Jerusalem) and royal family-line (Messiah the son of David, Son of God). Confirms the Abrahamic Covenant promises.

4. New Covenant - based alone upon God's "I will" - an everlasting covenant. Ratified by the blood of Christ and replaces the only covenant it could replace (since the others are everlasting and not based upon God's "IF YOU WILL THEN I WILL") - it replaces the covenant God made with the fathers of the Israelites "in the day He took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt" - the Mosaic Covenant, which is the covenant which they broke. The New Covenant confirms the Abrahamic Covenant and Davidic Covenant promises:

"So says Jehovah, who gives the sun for a light by day and the laws of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who divides the sea when its waves roar; Jehovah of Hosts is His name; if those ordinances depart from Me, says Jehovah, the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever. So says Jehovah, If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be searched out, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, says Jehovah. Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that the city shall be built to Jehovah from the Tower of Hananeel to the Corner Gate. And the measuring line shall yet go before it to the hill Gareb, and shall go around to Goath. And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields to the torrent of Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to Jehovah. It shall not be plucked up nor thrown down any more forever." (Jer 31:35-40).

To ignore the fact that the covenant which is replaced by the New Covenant is the Mosaic Covenant only which does not annul the original promises, and to do so even when the facts are staring us in the face, is to show intellectual dishonesty.

Whatever the motive is for this intellectual dishonesty the LORD only knows.

They also choose to ignore the fact that Jesus said that the unbelieving Jews would SEE HIM no more UNTIL they say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD".

They also ignore the fact that Jesus said that Jerusalem would be tread underfoot by Gentiles UNTIL "the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled".

They ignore the fact that after the Day of Pentecost Peter told the Jews that they must repent of their unbelief so that Jesus could come back because heaven has received Him UNTIL the time of the restoration of all things.

They also ignore the fact that Jesus did not tell the apostles when they asked Him if He would restore the kingdom to Israel at that time, that He would never again restore the kingdom to Israel - He simply told them that it is not for them to know the times and seasons which the Father has put in His own authority, and repeated what He had already told them before - that the gospel must first be preached among the nations.

They also ignore the fact that Paul stated that God has not cast away His people and that Paul identified God's people as the physical seed of Abraham by mentioning the tribe of Benjamin in reference to "His people", and that Paul did not say the Church replaces Israel - he taught that the Gentiles are grafted into Israel among the believing remnant and that believing Jews and Gentiles make up the New Testament temple (the Church).

They also ignore the fact that Paul stated that hardening in part has happened to the rest of Israel UNTIL the full number of the Gentiles has come into the sheep-fold of Israel.

Then they break the first rule of sound hermeneutics by isolating certain scriptures such as "even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees" and "Do not think that you can count on your salvation just because Abraham is your father", and refuse to interpret these verses in the light of what the rest of the Word of God says about these things (in the light of the full counsel of God's Word).

And when all these Biblical facts are pointed out to them, they choose to flatly ignore these facts - showing their own intellectual dishonesty and preferring to hold onto their theology which has been produced by a twisting of God's Word.

What their motives for their intellectual dishonesty is, only the LORD knows. Perhaps its their fear of the strong disaproval of their peers, perhaps it's puffed-up pride against Jews.

Each individual is different, and the reasons for each individual's intellectual dishonesty could be a different reason or reasons. Who knows? Only the LORD.

Lekh

[lekh l'kha]

God rejected that nation

False assumption. And the reasons why the above statement is a false assumption have already been given to you. Yet you continue to choose to ignore the full counsel of the Word of God about these things, and continue to break the first rule of sound hermeutics by isolating certain verses of scripture and interpreting them on their own (such as the verses you quoted in your post above), without bothering to interpret them in the light of what the rest of the Word of God says about the subject. This is intellectual dishonesty, and only the LORD knows your motive for pracitcing intellectual dishonesty.

[lekh l'kha]

God rejected that nation

False assumption. And the reasons why the above statement is a false assumption have already been given to you. Yet you continue to choose to ignore the full counsel of the Word of God about these things, and continue to break the first rule of sound hermeutics by isolating certain verses of scripture and interpreting them on their own (such as the verses you quoted in your post above), without bothering to interpret them in the light of what the rest of the Word of God says about the subject. This is intellectual dishonesty, and only the LORD knows your motive for pracitcing intellectual dishonesty.

I would be real careful throwing around those weighty phrases like