The danger in believing Pre or Mid trib

[gypc]

Only two resurections? If Jesus was one, then that leaves us where?

The first resurection is to life, but not in one event. The second is to death.

Oh boy , Rev20:4-6...............and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Christ and for the word of God and which had not worshipped the beast neither his image, neither had recieved his mark on their foreheads or in their hands.......and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST resurrection.

6)Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection on such the second death hath no power but they shall be priest of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[gypc]

Exactly there is only 2 resurrection spoken of in the bible:

[Guest idied2]

I want to ask all of you, Would it shake your faith (as a pre pr mid trib believer) to wake up in the tribulation? To turn on your Television and see and reconize the anti christ on your television. Would you think that you were left behind? Or would you just shrug your shoulders and say, "oops, I guess I was wrong...we are going to have to go through this".

The reason this is something to be talked about is because there will be alot of christians who believe in pre and mid trib that will lose out with God when they wake up in the middle of the great tribulation. This is something to be concerned about. will we lost a significant percent of christians at the last minute?? A long with winning lost souls to God we should also be concerned with those who believe this way. It has the potential to be dangerous.

Back to my original question, Would it shake your faith (as a pre pr mid trib believer) to wake up in the tribulation?

Sabrina

Would it shake your faith as a post triber to wake up one day and realize that the anti-christ was always on your television set? And that the great tribulation starts with The LORD'S two witnesses bringing the wrath of GOD down on the earth?

Everyone needs to wake up. But they can't. If he woke everyone up before it starts the plan would be foiled and scripture could not be fulfilled.

Isaiah 29:9-16

9 Pause and wonder! Blind yourselves and be blind! They are drunk, but not with wine; They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.

10 For the Lord has poured out on you The spirit of deep sleep, And has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets; And He has covered your heads, namely, the seers.

11 The whole vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, "Read this, please." And he says, "I cannot, for it is sealed."

12 Then the book is delivered to one who is illiterate, saying, "Read this, please." And he says, "I am not literate."

13 Therefore the Lord said: "Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[One Way]

I want to ask all of you, Would it shake your faith (as a pre pr mid trib believer) to wake up in the tribulation? To turn on your Television and see and reconize the anti christ on your television. Would you think that you were left behind? Or would you just shrug your shoulders and say, "oops, I guess I was wrong...we are going to have to go through this".

The reason this is something to be talked about is because there will be alot of christians who believe in pre and mid trib that will lose out with God when they wake up in the middle of the great tribulation. This is something to be concerned about. will we lost a significant percent of christians at the last minute?? A long with winning lost souls to God we should also be concerned with those who believe this way. It has the potential to be dangerous.

Back to my original question, Would it shake your faith (as a pre pr mid trib believer) to wake up in the tribulation?

Sabrina

Would it shake your faith as a post triber to wake up one day and realize that the anti-christ was always on your television set? And that the great tribulation starts with The LORD'S two witnesses bringing the wrath of GOD down on the earth?

Although I don't agree with your ultimate conclusion you are right in one aspect. Although the GT is commonly referred to as being "7 years long" and starting with the rapture of the Church (from a pre-trib perspective), this is not entirely accurate.

The 7 year period is known as the 70th week of Daniel. During this final "week" (7 year period) God will deal with Israel and all of the unbelieving world that rejected Christ.

The Church is nowhere in this final 7 year period. The church was not in any of the first 69 weeks, why would the church be in the final week? Something for all mid/post-tribbers to ponder.

The "GT" is the latter half of this final "week." It is the last 3.5 years of history on this earth.

So, the GT, itself, is not 7 years long. Rather, it is the 2nd half of this final "week" that was determined for Israel.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Look at 9:24. Who are the 70 weeks for? They're for "thy people (the Jews) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem)."

Where does the Church fit in here? Answer: we DON'T. And this is the big error of mid/post-trib doctrine. It fails to understand the very context and purpose of the 70 weeks of Daniel.

If you disect this text, which I can do if someone asks me to although it might get lengthy (but, I don't mind), you will see that it prophesies the very day of the Triumphal Entry and then to the Messiah being "cut off," that is where He was crucified for our sins (thank you, Lord!).

The only period not included in this passage from the time it was given until the end of the earth is "the Church dispensation." That is, from Pentecost until the rapture. Right now we are in a sort of interim period between the 69th week, which has already been fulfilled, and the 70th week which is yet to be fulfilled.

This is a mystery that baffles even the angels of God (1 Peter 1:12). Not that God would save us, but that we become His very family as "sons of God" (John 1:12) and "the Bride of Christ" (Rev 21:9).

The Church is a very special body, indeed, and we are all very fortunate that this is the place God chose for us to be in His plan for humanity.

All praise belongs to Him and His Son, Jesus, Who gave Himself up that we might live.

He (Jesus) came to pay a debt He did not owe, because we owed a debt we could not pay.

Amazing love, how can it be?

That you my King would die for me.

Blessings...

[Guest idied2]

The 7 year period is known as the 70th week of Daniel. During this final "week" (7 year period) God will deal with Israel and all of the unbelieving world that rejected Christ.

The Church is nowhere in this final 7 year period. The church was not in any of the first 69 weeks, why would the church be in the final week? Something for all mid/post-tribbers to ponder.

This is because the prudent calculators forgot to add CHRIST'S three and a half year ministry into the equation. Which only leves 1.260 days or three and a half years or a time times and a half time, left. Here is the other half of the week. These who will be rejected by the church.

Revelation 11:3-12

3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.

6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow F64 their dead bodies to be put into graves.

10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.

12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Guest idied2]

Da 9:24

"Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.

Who can't see that this prophecy includes the church?

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[whatsitmean]

This is because the prudent calculators forgot to add CHRIST'S three and a half year ministry into the equation.

You must have missed in One Way's post where he said the 69 weeks ended with the Triumphant entry. That was about a week before He was crucified.

The exact ending was knowable to the Jews which why Jesus said:

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

The meaning of that is that if the Jews had read their Bibles they would have know who Jesus was and the city would not have been destroyed in 70 AD.

The flip side of this discussion IMO is what if Jesus requires that same thing of us? To understand our Bibles enough to know He could be coming for us at any time. Many of the Tribulation saints could be just that. Saints the don't believe in the Pre-Trib rapture.

Mat 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee.

[One Way]

The 7 year period is known as the 70th week of Daniel. During this final "week" (7 year period) God will deal with Israel and all of the unbelieving world that rejected Christ.

The Church is nowhere in this final 7 year period. The church was not in any of the first 69 weeks, why would the church be in the final week? Something for all mid/post-tribbers to ponder.

This is because the prudent calculators forgot to add CHRIST'S three and a half year ministry into the equation. Which only leves 1.260 days or three and a half years or a time times and a half time, left.

Ummm... so now your evidence for Biblical doctrine comes from extra-biblical sources?

Da 9:24

"Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.

Who can't see that this prophecy includes the church?

I can, as well should you. He said "your people and your city." That is a pretty clear designation.

And, seeing how the Church dispensation is between the 69th week and the 70th week, it makes sense.

Right now, God is focusing on the gentiles. His attention is there. Hence, the past 2,000 years are not included in the weeks of Daniel. Once the "times of the gentiles be fulfilled," then God will once again turn His eye back to Israel.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

So, once "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" then "all Israel shall be saved." In exactly that order.

The point is that the first 69 weeks have already happened, and we know that the 70th week is the final 7 year period "to finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy."

Therefore, since the first 69 weeks have already happened, and the 70th hasn't started yet, then we must be in between them. Does that make sense?

I hope that helps.

Blessings to ya...

[Guest dustycanvas]

This thread has gotten off in left field, LOL! But, that's ok.

To be more specific on what I believe, I believe that we will be raptured at the end of the great Tribulation...As the battle of Armageddon is taking place and Israel begins to lose the battle, God will rapture the church and we will come back down with him and rescue Israel thus, beginning the 1000 year reign of the church. (perhaps rapture and coming back not simutanesouly but, in the same timeframe rather.)

Sabrina