Vain activities

[Fez]

Lets all just relax, keep our eyes and our hearts focused on Jesus, concentrate on what we should be doing, and just do it.

This post is starting to get a bit edgy, and I really feel that we should direct ourselves back to scripture, and not opinions, for only in scripture is the truth to be found.

Blessings

[vern w]

While answering those who see things differently on the topic "Is music (secular) a sin" I have been trying to show that secular music is not sin per se, but that if a vain indulgence it is sin.

In hindsight I should have started my own topic as the OPs topic got abit highjacked. What I aim to discuss here is what and why vain activities are sin.

First I need to stress that there are more than enough legitamite activities for Christians that bring joy and meet our needs that no one here should accuse me of being a kill joy or rigid superspiritual nutter.

A vain activity is something that has no useful purpose. Are we agreed?

In heaven we will not be doing anything vain, but the glory of God will forever be washing over us and there is great purpose in the give and take in of heaven. Agreed?

There are many vain activities that would not be sin if souls were not plunging into horrendous and eternal torment every second. Agreed?

Now please answer me how a Christian in can good conscience indulge in any vain activity while here on earth and not be guilty of the blood of those perishing.?

Remember Im not saying we forgo every legitamite activity, only that all these have the purpose to in the long run either save souls or better equip us to live life and therefore able to win souls.

My other question then is, can it be morally ok to listen to secular or christian music to entertain ourselves.

Part of what I have been taught is that God, through the efforts of The Trinity, longs for us, his created dear ones. There exists a relationship between our creator and us the created. We are limited in all ways. God is not. Even so that relationship is what we are to strive for for ourselves and others.

I prefer music without words so the words aren't there to lie to me or those with me but if the music draws people together in healthy relationship, that is an expression and a learning that we need as reminder of the first and fundemental relationship each of us has with God.

That said, their is music in other things too. Like the sounds of working together. Like the sounds of nature around us. Like the very deep and heartbreaking realizations that come while in service to, for , and with others who are just beginning to know that there is a God who made them.. and that God made them valuable.. and that God loves them more fully and in ways no one else with a million songs and a million years can.

[Guest shiloh357]

If doing something vain with no purpose while souls are perishing does not incur guilt, then I guess we are free to anything we like and God just smiles?

Why don't you provide an example of what you are talking about. How about a practical scenario to illustrate your question? Just simply throwing out terms like "vain activities" doesn't really help, as we all have differing ideas about what that entails.

[~candice~]

Col 2:20-23 (ESV)

If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations-- 21 "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)--according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

Rom 14:20-23 (ESV)

Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

We live with an attitude of obedience to the call of the Holy Spirit, not by laws. If we can do it by faith, then no one can tell us "do not touch, do not taste, ...".

I think the difference between JCISGD and others, is that we appear to be able to partake in non spiritual entertainment by faith, with no conviction, and JCISGD cannot. JCISGD's personal conviction doesn't apply to the entire body.

[artsylady]

have seen that there is nothing better than for a person to enjoy his activities, because that is his reward. For who can enable him to see what will happen after he dies?

Ecclesiasted 3:22 HCSB

Very good scripture reference!!

Do you have children JSISGD?

[Believer1997]

I think we will have to explain ourselves to God one day when He asks what we've done to further His Kingdom - but I'm not going to be answering to people who choose to nitpick and judge others about what is and is not "vain activities". I'm going to Worship God and Praise Him and Thank Him and live as much like Jesus as I can. I'm also going to fail - time and again and get up and start again. I'm going to make every effort to live a life that is pleasing to God and enjoy the beauty around me and the life that He has so graciously given to us.

Psalm 68:3

But may the righteous be glad and rejoice before God; may they be happy and joyful.

Psalm 16:9

Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will rest secure

Ecclesiastes 9:7

Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do.

Praise God that I can feel the sun and breath the air and sometimes just rest and ponder !!!!

[nebula]

If doing something vain with no purpose while souls are perishing does not incur guilt, then I guess we are free to anything we like and God just smiles?

Why don't you provide an example of what you are talking about. How about a practical scenario to illustrate your question? Just simply throwing out terms like "vain activities" doesn't really help, as we all have differing ideas about what that entails.

I was wondering the same thing. What constitutes a "vain" activity? (Specific examples)

[JCISGD]

If doing something vain with no purpose while souls are perishing does not incur guilt, then I guess we are free to anything we like and God just smiles?

Why don't you provide an example of what you are talking about. How about a practical scenario to illustrate your question? Just simply throwing out terms like "vain activities" doesn't really help, as we all have differing ideas about what that entails.

I cant because its not so much the activity but the purpose for doing it and the surrounding conditions. I said previously that it is the fact that souls are perishing for eternity into horrendous torment that makes some activities morally wrong. i.e If none were going to this hell or even if it was only a tempory hell those activities might be morally ok.

I have been careful to point out what I mean by vain. i.e having no good purpose, and in this world anything that does not directly or indirectly further the kingdom.

Nothing is innocent, it is either morally right or morally wrong. Is it morally ok to suck a lollipop while listening to Eensy Wensy Spider? that depends on our ability and oportunity to do something more worthy with our time. It may well be that it is, Im not the judge.

I dont have a problem with listening to secular music, but usually only do so when it is unavoidable such as in the workplace. Its not what goes in that is unclean but what comes out. I personally think alot of "ok" songs are more deceptively harmful than outright blasphemous or immoral songs.

[JCISGD]

Morals are not a set of rules, they are a choice made by individuals as to what they do or do not allow. The Apostle Paul made tents, was that a vain activity? He preached against observing the law as Christians, but he also observed many tenants of the law, almost as occasion would allow. He preached against circumcision, and yet he circumsized a traveling companion, was this morally wrong? He was told to NOT GO to Jesusalem in prophecy and in vision, yet he went, was that morally wrong?

Does God require us to witness with each breath? There are millions going to hell, why do we waste time in any other activity? These are questions that are tinted with a measure of zeal, but not with wisdom. God knows that we need rest, we need food, we need interaction with others, and we also need to withdraw sometimes to renew ourselves and recharge ourselves.

We all should have a much greater level of spiritual walking, I am sure, but He is the one that calls us, that motivates us, that annoints us, and we are commanded to obey Him. Certainly we should behave ourselves, but having a hobby, or a distraction from the pressures of life, is not immoral of itself, but we must each submit to whatever God requires of us, being careful not to cast a snare on our brethren because of our zeal.

Morals are as you say what we hold as virtue in our choices, but our morals do not make a thing morally right or wrong.

Again as you say it is not a set of rules either. What makes something morally wrong depends on wether it is the highest good for all involved depending on their respective value, i.e God first then Humans, Angels, Animals etc.

I have not objected to any of the things you list, I have only said it is morally wrong to waste time in anything vain and without good purpose.

Come on Guys read my posts for what Im saying and not what you think im saying and if its unclear please ask questions rather than accuse me of things I have not said.

[Botz]

JCISGD...My dear brother, I really believe you are on that plane going in the opposite direction (that you mentioned in the music thread)...but I fear at the moment this will be grist for the mill rather than food for thought.